KELSEY GRAMMER ADMITS HE QUIT ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, DRINKS EVERY DAY

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Quitting Alcoholics Anonymous

Bunchie · Veteran Member

My hats off to Kelsey if he can have a drink for 5 minutes a day , I assume that would be one, although in my case I could easily put 2 beers down I n 5 minutes. He must not be alcoholic, and probably never was to begin with, I know he had a bad cocaine addiction, maybe he drank to control cravings for coke. I know people who use to drink very heavily , quit for a few years, attended AA, and now I have heard they are back drinking and supposedly responsibly, my hat's off to them to. However , I think once a pickle never a cucumber. I have also talked to people who are on drugs to control their cravings and say when they drink they no longer have the insanity to stay out all night , they go home from bar after 3 social drinks. They are part of a study at Boston University. I find this hard to believe. There are others who told me about Sinclair method but I am choosing sobriety .Any ideas on this ?

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Interesting.

I have seen all kinds. Variety is not only the spice of life - but the way life survives!

Considering the epigentic factor and neuroplasticity - I would have to presume that I will Always be above average at getting more alcohol into my system... maybe some day they will do gene editing and I wont have up to a million more pleasure receptors linked up to dopamine and motivating my behavior creating thick pathways in my brains network... all geared toward ensuring I get more alcohol. With this above average ability to build these thick behavior modifying pathways that tell me more alcohol is the only way to survive - being utterly useless in this particular landing spot in history - I can use my own common sense that tells me not to begin this process. My above average ability to find, digest and tolerate or build a tolerance to alcohol, is just not needed right now.

The old saying: "One is too many, 10 isn't enough" will always hold true for my well adapted (to another point in history) brain.

Some day, it may hold true that having this exceptional ability to get and build a tolerance for alcohol maybe useful again. Who knows - everything might get wiped out and the only thing left to safely drink will be full of fermenting things or the rotted stuff that resembles what beer started as, again. And then my tolerance and epigentic factor will again be extremely useful as it was in the days of building pyramids.

But for my life today? Nope. Not at all useful. Completely the opposite. Gets totally in the way of navigating and managing modern life.

I don't feel like there is anything wrong with who I am or what I am. I am well adapted and a beautiful expression of evolution or God's creation like the rest of us and everything. No need to be all disgruntled because some of my genes aren't useful right at this very moment in time. Much like when humans developed the ability to digest Milk - we benefited greatly from it during a time when we needed to. Now we are finding out that dairy isn't ideal for humans, and since there is plenty else to eat and drink - many are moving away from it. Beer got people through other times of famine, but it's certainly not an ideal food source like it once was. Now, many are moving away from it. It will all work out as it needs to in the end... or as our HP needs it to. I believe that has always been the truth and always will be. I am proud of who I am and the survivors my ancestors that passed these genes onto me were.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

justadrunk wrote:
Interesting.

I have seen all kinds. Variety is not only the spice of life - but the way life survives!

Considering the epigentic factor and neuroplasticity - I would have to presume that I will Always be above average at getting more alcohol into my system... maybe some day they will do gene editing and I wont have up to a million more pleasure receptors linked up to dopamine and motivating my behavior creating thick pathways in my brains network... all geared toward ensuring I get more alcohol. With this above average ability to build these thick behavior modifying pathways that tell me more alcohol is the only way to survive - being utterly useless in this particular landing spot in history - I can use my own common sense that tells me not to begin this process. My above average ability to find, digest and tolerate or build a tolerance to alcohol, is just not needed right now.

The old saying: "One is too many, 10 isn't enough" will always hold true for my well adapted (to another point in history) brain.

Some day, it may hold true that having this exceptional ability to get and build a tolerance for alcohol maybe useful again. Who knows - everything might get wiped out and the only thing left to safely drink will be full of fermenting things or the rotted stuff that resembles what beer started as, again. And then my tolerance and epigentic factor will again be extremely useful as it was in the days of building pyramids.

But for my life today? Nope. Not at all useful. Completely the opposite. Gets totally in the way of navigating and managing modern life.

I don't feel like there is anything wrong with who I am or what I am. I am well adapted and a beautiful expression of evolution or God's creation like the rest of us and everything. No need to be all disgruntled because some of my genes aren't useful right at this very moment in time. Much like when humans developed the ability to digest Milk - we benefited greatly from it during a time when we needed to. Now we are finding out that dairy isn't ideal for humans, and since there is plenty else to eat and drink - many are moving away from it. Beer got people through other times of famine, but it's certainly not an ideal food source like it once was. Now, many are moving away from it. It will all work out as it needs to in the end... or as our HP needs it to. I believe that has always been the truth and always will be. I am proud of who I am and the survivors my ancestors that passed these genes onto me were.

You have quit AA, too, justadrunk. But, unlike Kelsey, you did not go back to drinking, to any degree.

For you, AA was a "stepping stone" to a higher, better state of living, coping and sobriety.

That's interesting. I don't think it happens like that very often.

Mystic Man · Veteran Member

I Don't know who Kelsey G is . But . I reckon His experience IS Going to benefit others.

Like so many before him , started out with 1 . Yep with one cocktail then two , we know the rest.

Hopefully , when he finishes his drinking , he Can get back . Yes , I reckon he will be back.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

I have quit AA Tanin - yes.

I do have an open heart, and an open mind. Today - for me, quitting represents black and white thinking more than I might like... there is nothing really stopping me from walking into a 12 step room and back out again without ever determining my official stance: Quit or Joined.

~life is fluid like that~

Where I once felt I was nothing... no where... not enough...

I now realize I am part of all of it... everywhere... enough...

More revealed.

Bunchie · Veteran Member

Just a drunk, I agree with you, I believe the Sinclair method would be a complete disaster for me, I think i am wired for one more and no drug would work to control my excessive appetite for alcohol. Apparently it is only effective in80% of people. I drank to get drunk, I dont want to have 2 or 3 beers, I want 20 or 30 so why bother with some experiment some people are pursuiting so they can social drink. Good luck to those who can. Bunchie

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

justadrunk wrote:
I have quit AA Tanin - yes.

I do have an open heart, and an open mind. Today - for me, quitting represents black and white thinking more than I might like... there is nothing really stopping me from walking into a 12 step room and back out again without ever determining my official stance: Quit or Joined.

It is OK to use AA as a stepping stone to get where you want to go, then to leave it behind. Quitting AA is your choice. You have made it. Your responsibility is to make sound choices for your life and it should be assumed that you have done so in your case.

You can always come back to Alcoholics Anonymous -- if you are an alcoholic.

Walking into an open AA meeting does not determine quit or joined. That's a separate concept.

Best wishes for your journey.

ToddL · Member

I quit AA and 3 years later I am back after relapsing. I work with a peer who went for 9 years before he quit and is still sober 15 years later. He has no negative feelings toward AA just felt it had run it's course. He felt badly that one of his last sponsees relapsed and called him after a binge and after helping him get another sponsor just kind of faded away. Today was a tradition meeting and we discussed tradition three. Membership is not bestowed or withdrawn by anyone other than yourself. Mr Grammar will be welcome back at any time regardless of his feelings today. Best of luck to him

Baba Louie · Senior Member

I'm with you on this one, Bunchie. If I tried to have "just 2 or 3", it would turn into 10-15-20. I know it, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could have "just a couple". I couldn't.

heres the way I see it:

if I walked into a bar, and told myself "ok, no more than 3", it would be torture. I would finish my 3rd, and then be left standing watching everybody else drink. Because I already had 3, my better judgement is out the window, and I'm going to say to myself "ok, just 1 more". And I'm gonna say that 15 more times.

It would be harder to try to limit myself, than it is to just not drink at all. It would not be enjoyable. I would have a war going on in my brain "to have 1 more, or not to have 1 more". And I know damn well after that first drink, who is going to win that battle: alcohol. So I just don't start.

I don't desire the shit anymore anyway, so, this was just a hypothetical situation.

And I hate to say it, but Kelsy is f%#*ed. I've never seen any alkie who goes back to drinking and "controls" it for more than just a short period of time. I'm sure it's been done, but I haven't personally seen it.

And you can tell by his attitude that it won't be long till he's drowning.

Sorry, people, if it seems like I'm taking somebody else's inventory and being judgemental. I just don't like them Hollywood people.

I don't even watch TV or movies.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

The only comment I wish to make here is that I learned to be 'TOTALLY HONEST' with myself when working this program ... I learned that the words "To Thy Own Self Be True" was invaluable info ... it saved my life ...

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

ToddL wrote:
...AA...Membership is not bestowed or withdrawn by anyone other than yourself. Mr Grammar will be welcome back at any time regardless of his feelings today.

This is one of the most important principles of AA. It's a principle we had to learn--the hard way. In the early years of AA, some groups enacted all manner of restrictive membership rules and qualifications "for the good of all members." These rules all went away over time.

If any alcoholic says he or she is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he or she IS a member. He or she can't be kicked.

Kelsey Grammer can rejoin AA anytime he decides to.

chris · Senior Member

I don't consider myself as having "quit" AA, I moved three years ago and just never found a new meeting to go to. Nothing is stopping me from looking up meetings, and driving to the next town to go to one, I have chosen thus far not to. I went from going to a meeting every day for 7 years, to none in the past 3. Still sober, and I know I'm welcome should I choose to go.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Well, I don't go to meet'ns every day like I did for years, when I first started, but I still consider myself a 'LIFE Member' ... ... ...

Mystic Man · Veteran Member

The wife told me who he is . I don't watch tv.

As I said earlier , his experience will not only benefit him , but will also benefit others.

I moved from Adelaide back to Sydney . Got a new home group . One of the hg members , when over 15yrs sober,

quit going to meetings & for 10yrs his wife begged him to go back to meetings AND for the last year before he Did

return to meetings , the local Police Begged him to get Back on th booze . Because his behaviour was more predictable.

A bit like my 'sleep apnea' , if I Don't wear my c'pap mask . My 'snoring' starts AND my Stopping breathing Does too.

I stop breathing Many times through the night , without my c'pap mask . I think . With nearly 30yrs continued sobriety.

With all the people I have listened to by attending Regular meetings of AA , who , have had the misfortune to relapse.

ALL , yes All have returned to say "it got Worse , never better" , oh it may have been ok with one or two to start with.

But when will the thin ice appear . As I said . I wish him well & Hope he gets back sooner rather than Too late.

mandm · Senior Member

I think there becomes a point in your life where you need to remove yourself from AA as well. I think AA is a depressing place, and it does serve a purpose at the beginning, and although it is good to remind yourself every once and while of your, I think a life time as Identifying yourself as an alcoholic isn't good either.

I drank for a long time and I've been sober for a long time now as well. Recently a friend came up to me, someone whom doesn't know I once had a problem with drinking and said to me today I am 432 days sober. I say wow good job, he was very proud of that number. ( An he should be), I just thought it was amazing he was counting the days and how much he identified with Alcohol.

I have been sober for a few years now maybe 3ish. I don't remember because I don't remember the exact date I quite, I don't think about it. I don't identify myself as a non drinking. I just don't drink. I keep myself too busy that alcohol is the very last thing on my mind.

Everyone once and awhile I am reminded how much I drank and my previous lifestime. I don't feel if I pick up a drink would have a problem. The issue is I don't want to pick up a drink because I don't enjoy it anymore.

I have had a drink or wine over a dinner over in the past year just one. I didn't enjoy even the a half a glass of wine, or the way it made me feel the next day. And guess what I couldn't even finish the glass I was disgusted by it. ( which is funny because I used to finish other peoples glasses)

I know alot of people said to me in the past well if you can have a drink and stop that doesn't make your a true alcoholic.

My response : "Thats even BETTER! "

Thotagauta · Member

It is too scary to even imagine trying a sip of wine let alone half a glass. I relapsed after 6 years of sobriety because I managed to convince myself I wasn't an alkie even though

Thotagauta · Member

It is too scary to even imagine trying a sip of wine let alone half a glass. I relapsed after 6 years of sobriety because I managed to convince myself I wasn't an alcoholic. A guy I once met told me that he had been sober for 20 years before he woke up one morning and decided to have a beer. Five days later, he had to go back to rehab. I never thought it believable at the time but now I know this to be true.

Mystic Man · Veteran Member

I KEEP Coming back to AA meetings to Thank you for what You have Given me FREELY.

From my meagre Existence before I got here . You Showed me How to Live . Yes , I had a well paying job.

I had a pretty lady , I drove a nice car , we lived in a fancy house . After getting sober , within a month,

I left the pretty lady & gave her the car & the house , she would have got the house anyway . Within a year,

the job was gone too . At 38 , I was back in a one room apartment , alone & going to daily AA meetings , oh I

did have another job to go to . But I was grateful I was sober And Living One day at a time . Cutting a Long

story short . Today almost 30yrs later . I have a huge 4 bedroom HOME , remember back , I only had a house.

Yes , we Live in a nice home , we have 3cars , oh there was an addition , after I met another pretty lady , we

have been together for over 22yrs , with a 20y old son . And we travel a lot in Aussie & occasionally overseas.

Not bad for a man who kissed the ground when I stepped off my last ship & Promised I would NEVER go overseas

Ever again . That was after my 3rd trip , back from Vietnam . It was as simple as changing my mind . As I said

earlier , I had a meagre existence when I got here . Had everything . But I was empty . You GAVE Me a Brand NEW

life , n when I got sober . I did not get my old life back . I did not get my old life patched up , back.

YOU GAVE ME A BRAND NEW LIFE . Why would I not keep coming back And Thank YOU for My New life.

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Wow! What a wonderful and inspirational story! Thanks so much for sharing Mystic Man.

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Does this surprise me? Not in the least. The number of relapses, here in upstate New York, has more than doubled since early 2015.

Some of those defectors had 20+ years of active sobriety at one time. So this is nothing new, at least not here.

In a world of ever changing values, statements like these come as no surprise.

Unfortunately, some of us have to learn things the hard way.

I hope he can find his way back before its too late.

On a personal note, it felt good to celebrate 15 years of active sobriety last Sunday.

Its something I will never take for granted. I hope you all agree. Onward.

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 16th of July 2016 05:06:17 PM

jhamlett · Veteran Member

I have the failing of tending to think that anyone that comes to our doors IS ABSOLUTELY alcoholic, and that was my first thought reading this article.

My next two thoughts were out of the Big Book:

1.) From Alcoholics Anonymous, Chapter 3. More About Alcoholism, pp 31-32.

"We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic,
but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to
the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try
to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will
not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with
yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters
if you get a full knowledge of your condition."

2.) From Alcoholics Anonymous, Chapter 7, Working With Others, pp 89.

"...it happens that because of your own drinking experience
you can be uniquely useful to other alcoholics. So
cooperate; never criticize. To be helpful is our only
aim."

So, the book tells me that a.) Mr. Grammer passed our own informal "am I an alcoholic" test and b.) my sole job remains only to be helpful and to not criticize. I believe that elsewhere in the book it says that if we do, we may spoil a chance to be useful later on.

-- Edited by jhamlett on Saturday 16th of July 2016 08:27:52 PM

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Congrats on 15 years, Mr. D.
Way to go.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Ditto what Pickle said, CONGRATS on 15 years Mr. David ... your presence here has been a very big inspiration to me over the years ... thank you for weathering the storms, both real AND imagined ....