Welcome to the board manas.

Non-alcoholics can drink responsibly. They can have a drink or two and not have a desire for more.

Recovering alcoholics, on the other hand, cannot. They may be able to "control" their drinking for a while, but eventually they fall back into the same familiar patterns.

If you are not an alcoholic (are you?) and have just had some bad drinking experiences, I suppose it may be possible. We need a bit more information on your situation to give you better answer.

As for your country forcibly admitting alcoholics into rehab, if they actually pay for it I'd say this is a great thing. The rehab facility I wanted to get into way back when, in my country costs $7000 for a month, and I wanted to go badly but I just couldn't afford it.

Best of luck to you, and please respond back with more information.

manas wrote:

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Totally convinced about the first sip and progressive disease.

But, does anyone here have anything to share about near-responsible drinking after learning a lesson (in my country, Alcoholics are forcibly admitted to rehab most of the time).

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Welcome to MIP manas, ...

I had neighbors once that were 15 to 20 years older than me that drank every day, but were not alcoholics ... they would sit on their back porch and have 2 drinks before supper, every night ... then they'd eat supper, watch some TV, then go to bed ...

I call that 'responsible drink'n ... I came back out of rehab once, sat over there talk'n to them while they had their cocktails and asked them "How the hell can y'all sit there and just have 2 drinks?" ... one drink for me was too many, and a hundred was not enough ...

Glad you're here manas, God Bless,

Pappy

The term "responsible drinking" is what some in the literary world call an "oxymoron". I looked the term up and one example was "living death".

This subject branches off into several tributaries where "terminology" in AA is concerned.

MANY years ago I offered to buy a cute little bartender what she was drinking AS I ordered my drink. Her reply was "I don't drink that $h!T, IT'S POISON.  Even though I didn't bother to quit after hearing her remark, I did decide I didn't want to know her better since she didn't have a problem poisoning me!  WHAT "RESPONSIBLE" PERSON WOULD POISON THEMSELVES? A RESPONSIBLE PERSON TAKES CARE OF THEMSELVES AND DOES THOSE THINGS THAT ARE UPLIFTING AND PRODUCTIVE TO LIFE.

The term "sober" is used very loosely as well.  What "sober minded" person would poison themselves?  It's terrible to see someone who hasn't drank in many years KILLING themselves smoking a cigar or cigarette. WHAT IS SOBER MINDED ABOUT THAT OR RESPONSIBLE?

not DRINKING is a very POOR ASSOCIATION  with the term "sober".

 

The paper referred to as "Gresham's law according to AA" points to the WATERING DOWN of the original mission of AA at it's conception.

I write these things out of love and with NO judgment toward anyone or anything. Truth and honesty is the goal...may we all inch toward them "One Step at a Time"

 

Welcome Bones424...

If I abstain from drinking alcohol, I am sober. Because I choose to smoke, that doesn't mean I am not sober....I just have an addiction to cigarettes. I also have an addiction to caffaine, eat too much sugar, salt and have too many fats in my diet. There are quite a few things I can put into my body which surely won't help me stay as healthy if I didn't do that, but it is my business. Alcoholics Anonymous was designed to help alcoholics. They have other programs for quitting smoking and eating healthier. I have never gotten arrested, lost relatives and friends, messed up my marriage, security and credit for smoking cigs. I have for drinking too much.

Just wanted to point that out. I know the pressure of getting and staying off alcohol can be so great to newcomers. I remember a few years back when I was new in AA someone came up to me and told me that I could pick up chips all I wanted but until I got off cigarettes I was not being totally honest about my sobriety. My sponsor at that time set me straight and reminded me that I am in Alcoholics Anonymous, not NA and every day I abstained from drinking alcohol was another sober day for me.

Thanks for the words of understanding "leavetherest".

I've been doing the 12 step thing for a while.  Started in 2000.  I have been writing a book for years.  :) actually seems like about 3 books now!

My point was really concerning the watered down message as presented by "Gresham's law according to AA" published many years ago by an unknown author.  I haven't figured out whether the person remained anonymous out of fear or humility.

The points made in that publication seem to gravitate to the human tendency to take the easiest path even though the Big Book clearly states that to truly recover "we must change everything". Another message that seemed to stick out in the publication was

the idea that we would become not only productive members of society, participating in our civic duties  but that we would also become , in the process,  "dedicated men and women of God", loving and nurturing all that is around us.  "Quite a tall order" huh?

Well, we know that "how  you eat an elephant is one bite at a time.

The Bible teaches that "precious" is the death of God's servants...of which you are one.  The word "precious" can be translated and defined as "costly".

We need you, God needs you.. you ARE CHOSEN..so you can see why one of US killing ourselves is a concern.  What you bring to AA is so important and so needed, THAT is the reason we need you healthy.

 

May God bless you and yours Brother, I was taught in the Army, WE DON'T LEAVE ANYONE BEHIND.

I had to do some reading up on that Gresham guy bones424 mentioned.....but really I was referencing the smoking thingie.

and to use a quote from some of Gresham's writing, I guess I am one of the ones who fits in with the last sentence below:

The second sugarcoated pill gave us the freedom to take the Steps at our own pace and in our own way. This freedom quickly grew to be deeply cherished among AA members. Bill and Dr. Bob did one thing more to keep the spiritual rigor and power of the Twelve Steps from frightening new prospects (sugarcoated pill number two). They put the Steps forth as suggestions rather than as directives. The sentence which introduces the Steps in chapter five of the Big Book says: Here are the steps we took, which are suggested [our italics] as a program of recovery. This idea was greatly appreciated throughout the AA Movement from the time the Big Book was first published. We drunks hate to be told to do anything.

 

I know I was told over and over to quit drinking. Almost every single time, it made me want to drink even more and usually I ended up doing so. It was as if I wanted to defy whoever it was concerned about me and let them know I was in control of my own life (often I was not even around most them at the time, as many of these "orders" from them came to me through emails and phone calls.) And those commericals with people who used to smoke hooked up to respirators, some showing their scars from surgeries telling "me" to quit smoking....well, they don't scare me, although they should. I go out and light up another. I'll show them.

I realize I may be a little hard-headed about all that. I never claimed to be all that intelligent though. I have a good thing going though--I do believe in God and He can tell me what to do....I'll listen to Him. So if I hear a deep booming voice saying one day to stop smoking, I'll listen. LOL! (Although I really and truly know He probably doesn't approve of me smoking these damn things!)

Also, Bones made a good point ... I don't think when we pray to God for the desire and strength to do His will, that He want us to kill ourselves off slowly with smoke'n, excess food, dangerous activities, or anything else ... I think His will is for us to help each other and treat our bodies with respect, you know He made us, so we ought to do better take'n care of His creation ... whatever that entails ...

A don't believe I've seen a commercial for 'smokes' in years ... not even on 'billboards' anymore ... BUT, I DO know how you feel and I respect that ... and I ain't a non-smoker yet ...