More and more people are becoming aware of AA. What comes with that is a growing number of people who have become anti-AA. However, I have also noticed that most of them do not explain an alternative recovery program.
Where I come from (Northern NSW, Australia) topic meetings are replacing identification (traditional) meetings. And now 99% of evening meetings start early (6-7pm). They all used to start at 8pm. Also many meetings are now only one hour long as opposed to 1.5 hrs. In my opinion, the meetings are catering more for the younger, instant gratification crowd.
Over the years, I have also noticed an increase negative attitude towards old timers by the younger (age) members. What is sad to see is that most topic type AA meetings hardly ever ask old-timers what their strength, hope, and experience is on the 'topic' chosen. They are often left to just listen to a lot of inefficient responses (some are even bad advice) to the topic.
In my early years, old timers were not shy to show tough love. It is tough love that got many to sober up smartly. I think there are two many newcomers looking for, and getting support for, easier softer ways - that will end up being the hardest way. They are avoiding certain truths! They are setting themselves up to avoid GRASPING AND DEVELOPING A MANNER OF LIVING WHICH DEMANDS RIGOROUS HONESTY.
You know, local AA meetings are losing (group) membership numbers. The 'Home Group' concept of Unity has become so watered down that there are hardly any volunteers to do 12th Step calls.
As an old-timer trying to revitalize AA to how it used to be reminds my of how everybody wants change but nobody wants to change syndrome.
The chances of lifelong recovery, in my area, in my opinion, is getting narrower.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Yeah, I been show'n some tough love here lately ... and if they can't handle the truth, they simply leave ... all I am left with is pray'n to God they will find their way to a sober life ... and that's hard to do by yourself ... (I've tried ...) ...
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Alcoholics Anonymous was created by Alcoholics for Alcoholics.
Bill and Bob did the drunks of the world a huge favor.
Kids showing up in AA with Problems Other than Alcohol are not getting
what they want and/or need so they are bummed.
It's really not AA's fault, the FellowShip is simply
not equipped to handle the NewExoticDesignerShit they are on.
There are Other FellowShips for that.
Thanks Pappy and Marc for your responses. I now don't feel alone about my statements.
Some meetings ask us to have a moments silence for those who are still suffering from alcoholism. At first I was not sure what to say in my prayer. Then I found the simple answer. I always remember my own intervention. I pray that they will get a moment of clarity, and realize that to recover they will need help from a Higher Power and AA members. It really is a miracle to stay sober for life, especially for the first couple of years (for me anyway). To help that miracle along required me to be willing to go to any lengths. The weird spiritual part of that is, as soon as I am willing, the task all of a sudden becomes fear-less. Much like acceptance, as soon as I accept it, the resistance disappears.
Many newcomers think that their alcoholism will somehow, someday, disappear. They have a lot of trouble grasping the idea that they do not have alcoholism (to get rid of) but they are alcoholism. It is listed as a mental disorder. That is why we don't have to drink to become insane, but we get insane before we pick up that first drink. The problem with being insane is that we won't know we are insane because we are insane. If newcomers could grasp this, they would realize how serious alcoholism really is.
They say (at least) 4 out of 5 don't make it. In an AA meeting of ten people only two will remain sober for life. To be one of the two, one has to do something more remarkable and outstanding about their recovery than the other eight members in that room. You can explain all these things to the newcomer, but they look at you as if I was spinning some sales pitch or something. They truly are incapable of grasping the sincerity of it all. I suppose that is the nature of alcoholism, of the mental disorder... suffering from delusions of grandeur to the end.
Sorry for expressing such a compassionate concern. As my sponsor would say. "It may not help others, but it did help you".
Thanks.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Drug and Alcohol 'abuse' have been around since before Noah 'n the Ark ... (Noah, be'n an alcoholic) ... and it is constantly evolve'n ... it is my job to be there with the help'n hand of AA whenever someone comes to their senses and reaches out for help ... cause you damn sure can't prevent this sh!t ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
It was sometime in the early nineties that meetings shifted from 1.5 to just 1 hour, and we have the same trend of earlier meetings, very few left at 8.00 these days. When I had children at home, I found it quite a rush to make the earlier meeting times. Then there is the rush to get away afterwards. That seems to be getting less these days as at least a few realise the importance of sticking around for the newcomer. Anyway, what are they all rushing off to? beats me. I think a certain amount of it has to do with non-smoking areas. There is never any smoking allowed in meetings these days. A good thing for those of us who don't smoke or have given up, but quite tough for the smoker perhaps. In my early days the air in the meetings was thick with smoke.
Maybe the meetings are shorter because some members are frightened of overdosing on sobriety. It must be a worry for those who have bought the line that you can never recover but always be recovering( tongue in cheek).
I don't feel so pessimistic about the recovery rate, though perhaps quite a few who stay dry fail to realise the full benefits of the program.
My experience is still at least 50% of those who actually take the steps do recover. Many never get that far, some because they didn't receive the kind of sponsorship that I got, many receiving contrary advice in the meetings. People sharing what they got away with assuming that every real alcoholic can get away with it too.
I got away with taking three months to get as far as step 9, but I don't claim my experience negates the urgency written into the program. I teach the program as it is written. Of course I am probably behind the times on that one. Perhaps that is one of the reasons old timers are left out of things a bit. There seems to be a new technique, which I have failed to master, that of accurately predicting how long a newcomer has to get busy establishing a relationship with his higher power, before the mental obsession returns and they drink.
Experience tells me that it can be anywhere between a few days to several years, but I have not figured out how to make a prediction. I am also inclined to make the somewhat unpopular assumption that a newcomer may wish to expadite an end to their misery, and in AA we have only one solution to suffering, a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps. So I don't advise delay because I have no basis on which to suggest that delay is a safe practice. In fact it is a deadly gamble.
I am still optimistic. I think things are changing for the better. Where we used to have all discussion (often group therapy without a therapist) meetings, we now have a lot of step stidies and big book meetings. As we have gone back to the literature, outcomes seem to have improved. We are still desperately short of sponsors, old timers willing to take newcomers through the steps. Contrary to your experience, at active steps groups there are always more newcomers wanting to take the steps than sponsors willing to help them by a factor of about 4:1. I think ultimately it is with the newcomer that AA's future will lie. One alcoholic working with another, giving the kind of sponsorship described in the big book is where the future lies.
Been sober well over three decades here in the USA and AA is not like that here on the east coast. There were a few individual saying AA isn't what it used to be, years later, there is still always a few saying AA isn't what it used to be.
The proof is that AA continues to grow here. I remember the tough love meetings, unfortunately, those meetings turned into bulling sessions. Not everyone has the art of practicing tough love, nor does it work for everyone. Thankfully, most of those meetings folded, though a few exist.
As far as AA being 'watered down', the only place I hear about that is here on the Internet. Our local groups and Intergroup shows otherwise.
That's good news DB. It's nice to know AA is growing somewhere.
AA growth overall has been stagnant for a long time, in some areas like ours, actually declining. AA is smaller in my home town than it was when I joined over 30 years ago. Our general practice is substitute meetings for 12 step calls, wait for the newcomer to carry his problem to us, likewise to let him chose one of us to be his sponsor, and we may tell him he has to be sober for a specified period before he is ready to take the steps. If he drinks he often gets fired, and he is frequently reassured that the only requirement for sobriety is a desire to stop drinking and lots of meetings. We adopted a policy of just sending anyone who wanted to go to speak at institutions, trusting to providence as to their suitabilty( who am I to judge) and were confounded when our access was severely curtailed, or we were banned altogether. (who are they to judge).
The tough love (controlling) sponsorship can be a feature which seems to result in happy sponsors who never have to mow their lawns, and cowed sponsees who are never ready to sponsor and wouldn't change their socks without their sponsors permission.
There is a small number of cranks who believe the AA program resides in the big book, and a large number of recovering people believing the program is either in their head or their sponsors head. Can you see anywhere that we may be going wrong?
Actually, this description is a little out of date. Things are on the mend as we return to the basic text and our literature, and people are recovering again. It is going to be very interesting when the next membership survey comes out. Will it show us fluctuating around the 2 million mark or will it show solid growth?
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Tuesday 29th of December 2015 12:57:10 AM
Glad to read that your local groups and Intergroup is pro-active and healthy.
Our Central Service Office just folded earlier this month. Local AA groups were too apathetic to support it with volunteers, and the CSO was too apathetic to use the funds to raise AA awareness in the District. As a result, their excessive prudent reserve went to GSO, instead of 12th step work. Most groups here have used the 60:30:10 donation plan, which the 60% of donations went to CSO. But CSO had no volunteers to run the office and use that money towards 12th Step Work.
All this because AA group unity got watered down by apathy. AA members don't care about the service side of AA, all they seem to care about is having a meeting to go to, but not be in. IMHO.
Maybe I should do a geographical and come over to where you are Db1105.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Familiar story Part VII. Our intergroup committee collapsed about two years ago. The infighting, politics, non-alcoholic involvement and a complete disregard of our 5th tradition, and its own guidelines were the cause along with a huge dose of apathy or, as one old timer put it, selfishness.
The money for local 12 step work was being sent to GSO, the office barely survived from month to month.
The death of the committee gave the fellowship cause to think. A new committee was elected from real recovered alcoholics, the PI committee got going again and we've just had our most active year for dwcades in terms of carrying the message. We are still faced with a vocal faction who want to shut down the office and send all donations to GSO, but the groups seem to be supporting the new committee as never before, so hopefully we have turned a corner.
It seems that sometimes a service committe can become so disfunctional it can't be fixed. So it has to be allowed to collapse. But the pheonix can rise from the ashes.
I am already partaking in a revival. Your story has given me an extra boost of faith. I know it will take a long while to reboot the service. I am planning to start a new AA meeting which will foster the Home Group unity, and start our own 12th step outreach and do our own PI work. The new group will invite other groups to participate. . .
But first things first, we need a new AA meeting that is to serve as a role model for the rest. I am currently waiting for a response from a venue provider. I guess I won't hear from them until the Xmas-New Year period is over. I have already posted a new meetings proposal to other nearby meetings - to fulfill Tradition Four requirements. Only one group was in conflict with the time, so we have set the meeting back a half hour to allow others to attend both meetings. As I said, a revival is about to start.
Thanks for the picture of hope.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Yeah, I been show'n some tough love here lately ... and if they can't handle the truth, they simply leave ... all I am left with is pray'n to God they will find their way to a sober life ... and that's hard to do by yourself ... (I've tried ...) ...
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
Are you referring to the departure of hopefulone from this forum, Pappy? She had been here a long time under a few user names. But she left suddenly.
I am already partaking in a revival. Your story has given me an extra boost of faith. I know it will take a long while to reboot the service. I am planning to start a new AA meeting which will foster the Home Group unity, and start our own 12th step outreach and do our own PI work. The new group will invite other groups to participate. . .
But first things first, we need a new AA meeting that is to serve as a role model for the rest. I am currently waiting for a response from a venue provider. I guess I won't hear from them until the Xmas-New Year period is over. I have already posted a new meetings proposal to other nearby meetings - to fulfill Tradition Four requirements. Only one group was in conflict with the time, so we have set the meeting back a half hour to allow others to attend both meetings. As I said, a revival is about to start.
Thanks for the picture of hope.
Great news Part VII. I am responsible means I am responsible eh? Very glad to see you practiced tradition four, that's quite rare in my experience. We have a group like this on the other side of town who remained aloof from the fracas at intergroup. By there works you will know them. This group has for years put on excellent PI events, and makes sure its people get the opportunity to be involved in all aspects of AA. Their people are shown how to do the various prositions, treasurer, secretary chairman etc, and opportunities are created for newcomers through coffee, and greeters of course. Whenever the group puts on an event pretty much all its members turn out. It is a wonderful demonstration of unity.
Successful groups like this are held together by a strong and well organised group conscience. It is not possible for an outsider to come in and tip the group upside down in an "instant" group conscience, which I have seen happen in other promising groups. We do have members in the general fellowship who find AAs that dress well, have organised group conscience meetings with minutes and everything, study the big book and 12 and 12, and organise sponsorship and support for newcomers, and stay on message, objectionable and pedantic.
One aspect of attraction rather than promotion that might help is a practice I have of identifying my home group when I share at another meeting. I stick to ESH and the big book message of hope as it has worked for me, never criticise another group in any way. But I find that if people like what I have to share, they turn up at my home group for a look.
Yeah Pickle ... you would correct ... I think she was look'n for an excuse to leave, took a comment I made as an insult, said since I was her only real friend, she said she'd delete everything and scrub her email and Lord only knows what else ... she gave me no chance to reply and made sure I, nor anyone else, could reach her ...
Please keep her in your prayers ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Yeah Pickle ... you would correct ... I think she was look'n for an excuse to leave, took a comment I made as an insult, said since I was her only real friend, she said she'd delete everything and scrub her email and Lord only knows what else ... she gave me no chance to reply and made sure I, nor anyone else, could reach her ...
After reading our AA service manual about what the Intergroup (CSO) and District responsibilities are, I found out many things that were not done, or asked for by Groups. So, if our group conscience agrees, I am hoping to run a few workshops around our AA Group Handbook. I really like what our handbook says about having a group inventory now and again as a group conscience meeting.
I will take some notes of what you said and keep it as a reference.
I have also noticed an abundance of useful information from AA Head office in USA. I have already downloaded many PDF documents in relation to Home Groups, Service, and PI stuff.
Currently our new group has not yet started. But when we do, we will have little money to buy pamphlets for PI work. So I have created a pamphlet using the AA pamphlet "Is AA for You?" but added our contact details and our local meetings list to it. I have already sent the pamphlet to our GSO for approval. I have followed all protocols that a CSO would need to use in publishing AA literature for a newsletter. But I am not sure if that will suffice for a public pamphlet. Waiting now for a response.
Already have experimented with creating pamphlet holders from office folders. (I Googled DIY pamphlet holders). I can make 4 holders from one folder. The idea is to have them, and the pamphlets, next to telephones in pubs, clubs, etc.
Though it is sad to see a decline of the three legacies in our District, the hope of breaking this habit of apathy is a challenge that will at least revitalize my part in it. I discovered that apathy can also be caused by someone doing all the work, and leaving nothing for others to feel worthy about. So it will be a Step 11 call on how to go about doing this, as a unity thing, one day at a time.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Though I do not know her, I do know others in the same boat. I do keep them in my prayers. After all, many have prayed for me too... Thank you AA members.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
I guess this was 'on topic' in a way, but I'll PM Pickle here 'bout the 'rest of the story' ... didn't mean to Hi-jack your thread ...
Hi Pappy.
Did not see it as a hi-jack, just an extension of what was said.
Cheers.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
It was on topic. A good example of someone who quit when the going got tough.
Actually, in the past I have had two different user names on this board--not several. (Now I have had several). I came on here early in sobriety and after over a year, got upset over something and deleted my account. During those months, I kept visiting here because I missed the board. That was my way of connecting, when I was too embarrassed to come back for a while. After a few months I came back under a new user name. Something that others have done. Nothing unique.
I never quit AA, though. There is a huge difference between someone leaving an alcoholics board and someone quitting AA. I am still sober, by the Grace of God. I got my feelings hurt when told to "Grow up" when I confided in someone about feeling low and having the thought recently that life wasn't worth it after a malicious lie was told about me and not knowing how on earth I could continue going to meetings after that. I feared going back to meetings, I feared quitting them and drinking again, and I feared drinking again, because I knew that would kill me. I did keep attending meetings. I have kept going despite my fears and have managed to hold my head up high. I didn't do anything wrong. The person who felt the need to say that about me is someone I tried to help and when I could no longer do so, she felt the need to retaliate. I realized, through the help of my sponsor and prayer and other supportive folks, that I am going to be alright. Although I was and am affected by this woman's actions, her actions are her own. I have no need to get revenge against her. I do not have to try and play God. Been there, tried to do that, I'm not "God".
I had a few days to think about my knee-jerk reaction to deleting my account as well. It has been typical of me to quit things...obligations, commitments, etc., when I get my feelings hurt. In truth, I do have a lot of growing up to do. (And btw, I am not sure why that poster had the need to divulge information I had shared in a PM with him on this board when I was extremely upset and depressed. My thinking turned to "all black" thinking and I felt the world was against me. Again, other people's actions are not my stuff.)
I like this board. It has its share of problems, I know, of which I have to include myself. I accept full responsibility for my own doings and apologize if anything I ever said in any of my postings hurt someone else. I know that some of my posts have been lengthy, probably boring, and that is because I have felt, as I said before, that I could express myself more freely on here. Maybe, just maybe, something I have shared has helped another person who has dealt with similar issues. I am still a mess. I am trying to help myself. I am trying to help people like Fenners and others who come on here, maybe who new and too scared to attend AA meetings and need encouragement and support. That is my focus, and should remain my focus. I lost that focus when I got so wrapped up in my own bs and let what someone else said affect me and I became that "quitter" again. I don't want to be a quitter. I'm back. And hopefully, I have learned more than ever what they say in AA "Take what you want and leave the rest."
My sponsor is a wonderful, caring person. I think she is really going to help me. I trust her. I do have other friends. I am not alone. Not sure why I told Pappy that he was the only friend I had when it simply was and is not true (probably my black thinking when I was depressed and maybe an attempt to gain sympathy). I am going to work more on being honest with myself. I have told myself lies about myself my whole life. If I cannot be honest with myself, how can I be honest with others? I want to change. I don't want to be a drunk and I don't want to be a dry drunk either--someone who is sober physically and still sick mentally. I really want to be a better person and one who God intended me to be. I have the willingness to change.
I thank the participants of this board for helping me. I have learned from you all.
It was on topic. A good example of someone who quit when the going got tough.
Actually, in the past I have had two different user names on this board--not several. (Now I have had several). I came on here early in sobriety and after over a year, got upset over something and deleted my account. During those months, I kept visiting here because I missed the board. That was my way of connecting, when I was too embarrassed to come back for a while. After a few months I came back under a new user name. Something that others have done. Nothing unique.
I never quit AA, though. There is a huge difference between someone leaving an alcoholics board and someone quitting AA. I am still sober, by the Grace of God. I got my feelings hurt when told to "Grow up" when I confided in someone about feeling low and having the thought recently that life wasn't worth it after a malicious lie was told about me and not knowing how on earth I could continue going to meetings after that. I feared going back to meetings, I feared quitting them and drinking again, and I feared drinking again, because I knew that would kill me. I did keep attending meetings. I have kept going despite my fears and have managed to hold my head up high. I didn't do anything wrong. The person who felt the need to say that about me is someone I tried to help and when I could no longer do so, she felt the need to retaliate. I realized, through the help of my sponsor and prayer and other supportive folks, that I am going to be alright. Although I was and am affected by this woman's actions, her actions are her own. I have no need to get revenge against her. I do not have to try and play God. Been there, tried to do that, I'm not "God".
I had a few days to think about my knee-jerk reaction to deleting my account as well. It has been typical of me to quit things...obligations, commitments, etc., when I get my feelings hurt. In truth, I do have a lot of growing up to do. (And btw, I am not sure why that poster had the need to divulge information I had shared in a PM with him on this board when I was extremely upset and depressed. My thinking turned to "all black" thinking and I felt the world was against me. Again, other people's actions are not my stuff.)
I like this board. It has its share of problems, I know, of which I have to include myself. I accept full responsibility for my own doings and apologize if anything I ever said in any of my postings hurt someone else. I know that some of my posts have been lengthy, probably boring, and that is because I have felt, as I said before, that I could express myself more freely on here. Maybe, just maybe, something I have shared has helped another person who has dealt with similar issues. I am still a mess. I am trying to help myself. I am trying to help people like Fenners and others who come on here, maybe who new and too scared to attend AA meetings and need encouragement and support. That is my focus, and should remain my focus. I lost that focus when I got so wrapped up in my own bs and let what someone else said affect me and I became that "quitter" again. I don't want to be a quitter. I'm back. And hopefully, I have learned more than ever what they say in AA "Take what you want and leave the rest."
My sponsor is a wonderful, caring person. I think she is really going to help me. I trust her. I do have other friends. I am not alone. Not sure why I told Pappy that he was the only friend I had when it simply was and is not true (probably my black thinking when I was depressed and maybe an attempt to gain sympathy). I am going to work more on being honest with myself. I have told myself lies about myself my whole life. If I cannot be honest with myself, how can I be honest with others? I want to change. I don't want to be a drunk and I don't want to be a dry drunk either--someone who is sober physically and still sick mentally. I really want to be a better person and one who God intended me to be. I have the willingness to change.
I thank the participants of this board for helping me. I have learned from you all.
LOL....
thanks Tanin...."grateful1"....I thought when I read your posting, "grateful 1? Did I have that one, too?" Then I did have several. Didn't mean not to be totally honest about my ID's....that does sound familiar. I don't know what the heck happened with that one--in other words--what po'd me and I deleted it, too. I am not going to try and remember...lol again....I have been like the weather--always changing. Hope my "changing" will be for the better going forward.
I think I am safe in say'n we all missed you ... and I for one, was very concerned ... one reason is there was no avenue to reach you and try and resolve any 'issues' (you had made that very plain) ... I was go'n to give you some space and then write a letter in hopes it might be read ...
I am still suffer'n some backlash issues with this radiation and hormone treatments ... and this does affect my attitude from time to time, I get impatient and intolerant at times and I'm sure I unloaded on you at times ... for that, I apologize and ask for your forgiveness and wish to make amends ... I think maybe we both found ourselves at 'wits' ends and said some things that would have been better left unsaid ...
I'm just so happy you decided to come back ... we are 'family', you know ... (I'm breathe'n a big sigh of relief) ...
Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
LOL.... thanks Tanin...."grateful1"....I thought when I read your posting, "grateful 1? Did I have that one, too?" Then I did have several. Didn't mean not to be totally honest about my ID's....that does sound familiar. I don't know what the heck happened with that one--in other words--what po'd me and I deleted it, too. I am not going to try and remember...lol again....I have been like the weather--always changing. Hope my "changing" will be for the better going forward.
According to Baba Louie, you had, and have, a few.
"A few is more than 2, less than 5. A bunch is between 5-10."
Thanks for you post, Part VII. One reason I tend to gravitate toward study meetings (Big Book, Twelve and Twelve, Language of the Heart, etc.) is because we focus through reading and discussion on the message of recovery through AA. Alcoholics tend to forget easily, and unless I keep my nose in the literature and hear it shared by others, I get forgetful! We have a group in our area that has meetings twice a week. The first is an "open discussion" meeting, where I've heard some good things, but also too much about people's personal problems, which others then try to "fix". Many cross-addicted and drug addicts (my unrepentant late sponsor used to call them drug fiends) attend. I sometimes call this type of meeting "AA Lite". The second meeting, which I regularly attend, has about half the attendance, and I suspect the reason is that it's a study meeting. I've noticed that many younger members tend to like the let's-talk-about-anything meeting. These are also the meetings that seem to generate the most drama. If it helps them stay sober, fine, but it's simply not enough for me. I'm not a BB thumper, but I do believe that meat-and-potatoes helps you get well better than Pablum does.
We are blessed with a good variety of meetings here, fortunately - speaker, open topic, study. Those that stick to the principles of the program are the ones that work best for me.
-- Edited by emmi331 on Thursday 31st of December 2015 01:13:56 PM
I basically like all types of AA meetings that I have .. attended. Whoops, There were two that I wished I had not been too.
One was a 1 & 12 step meeting. They banded anybody who spoke about the other ten steps. I did not know this at the time. I shared about a few of the other steps. Then after the meeting I got harassed for my share. I never went back to it.
The other meeting was when an indigenous person was asked to share, he was drunk at the time, and said he could not stop drinking. The secretary of the meeting got up to take him out of the meeting room, the speaker wanted to stay, then suddenly the secretary punched him to the ground. Other people jumped up to stop the attack. The drunk left the room in shock, some followed. He most probably will never go to AA again. I was in shock myself and had a few tears of what happened.
Back to meetings. I like BB, and topic meetings too. But some who go to them are never seen at identification (ID) meetings. I find this sad for one main reason. Identification meetings helps us to remember what it was like, how AA helped us, and how our life is in comparison. In that type of share we tend to be gut-level honest. In topic meetings we tend to be want-to-be-gurus - the opposite of humility. In my opinion, this can set us up for a relapse.
On the other hand, what I like about BB and topic meetings is much like you shared. It gives us a chance to really look deeply into a recovery based subject/issue and get lots of outside input and insights from others, especially from those who have the experience.
Personally, I like a good mixture, with at least one ID meeting per week. Unfortunately there are not too many ID meetings to chose from. For instance, in Byron Bay (Australia) they have seven meetings per week and not one is an ID meeting (unless the women's meeting is one). But you can get the picture, those in Byron Bay (a tourist beehive) have to travel at least 30 kms to get to an ID meeting. To me, there is something wrong there.
__________________
"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
I was in Byron Bay a couple of years ago and went to a very nice steps meeting. Really friendly, warm atmosphere. As far as I can tell, ID meetings are a uniquely Australian concept, Aussie rules AA if you like. The nearest thing we have in NZ is the discussion group, which can range a bit in format from a chair openeing and closing with open slather in between, to meetings which may have a topic and a chairman guiding the meeting and selecting speakers. They are pretty random, some more stable than others. Some run like a therapy session without the therapist, some use the literature, some never do. Some are groups, most are just meetings.
When I came in, these were the only meetings we had, but we had plenty of them. Big Book and 12x12 meetings were not available. Today we have maybe 10 out of 60 meetings that are literature based. They tend to be stable in format and message, and seem to be growing in polularity, possibly because of their effectiveness.
An identification (ID) meeting, as far as I know, is a traditional AA meeting format. It is similar to what you might have in USA as a speakers meeting. But we have more than one a few speakers.
Here is what we do: Secretary hands over the meeting to the chairperson. The chairperson has a list of attendees names at the meeting, usually collected by the Greeter. The chairperson then asks in turn people from the list to get up and share from the floor what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now (just as it says in How it Works). Each speaker ideally speaks no longer than 10-15 minutes. In a 1.5 hr meeting, 6-9 people get to share.
These meetings are called identification meetings because we are usually asked to look for the similarities and not the differences.
These are also along the lines of a 12th Step share. Newcomers effectively get a 12th Step message of hope.
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"... unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of recovery." Dr. Silkworth. (Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd Ed. p.xxix)
Oh, okay then ... sounds like a great format, but certainly would need a little more than an hour ... to get the full benefit ... I must keep my eyes open for one here in the come'n months ... sounds like fun to me ...
Thanks
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I sent this to Pappy...took me a while to realize that I was wrong and needed to make amends and since this posting did address this issue with me leaving in haste was moved to share it here as well. I felt so guilty and wrong and particularly after Pappy made amends to me above. (...And I am now not so sure he really needed to--as I was wrong.) I had to swallow some "false" pride, and although it stuck on the way down, I feel better for realizing my part in it. I hope others realize that we don't have to hang onto our crap...much of which is our own doing.
Dear Pappy,
I am sincerely sorry for getting upset like I did and the hurtful things I said in my message as well as on any postings which were mean-spirited in any way. That was very
childish of me and is not a loving and caring way of handling things. I don't want to be the kind of person who lashes out and treats others like that. I let stuff which has been going on in my life get the better of me and took it out on someone (you!) who has always had my best intentions at heart. You have taken so much of your time to try and help me and I acted like I have many times and took one little thing which was said (the "growing up" part) and didn't pay as much attention at all to the other loving words of concern you offered me in your message. I have been like that all my life --nit picking things apart, looking for the "negative" or making things into a "negative" where there are none. I am working hard with my sponsor and trying to change my ways. Hopefully, I will be able to. I want to be different in so many ways and be the kind of person God intended for me to be.
Love you,
"leavetherest"
P.S. I just now felt the need to post this on the board as well. I think it is important to admit my error in judgement, my character flaw(s) to others. I am ashamed of myself and it may help other(s) who have similar issues like I have, think things through, be more loving and tolerant and when someone is so willing to help them, as you have been me for so long, not take advantage of them and treat them any other way other than to have gratitude and love towards them.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Friday 1st of January 2016 09:20:45 AM
Nuff said, ... let's make this new year outstand'n, what do you say??? ... there's other people out there hurt'n a whole lot more than we are, let's help'm out ... (really, most of our problems are of our own do'n anyway) ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Glad you thought so Pappy. Laughter is good. I remember telling my mom about my "smile lines" which started developing at a young age for me...my mom, whose skin was as smooth as a Downy baby's butt, told me "Well, smile lines look a lot better than frown lines."
That's for sure! So after months of frowning, I am more appreciative of any lines that may result from smiling and laughing.
