As far as I can tell, the only requirement to be a sponsor is to have had a spritual experience as the result of working all twelve steps. As our basic text says, we can't transmit something we haven't got. The fellowship would have failed had they had the "12 month" rule back then. Ebby was three months when he sponsored Bill. Bob had only a few weeks when they started working with others. There were just too many people coming in for anyone to sit around for a year waiting to be ready to sponsor.

And the statement in another peice of sage institutional advice on how AA works, that we can never be free of our alcoholism really is off beam. AA is about permanent recovery and total freedom from alcohol. This goes well beyond psycological constructs which limit us to "realistic" goals, and takes us into the realm of miracles. That's my experience anyway, just the same as what is laid out in our basic text.

Hi H1,
Sorry to be so long responding. I sometimes think the word sponsor is overrated and has a meaning way wider than originally intended. The job of sponsor was, at one time, merely introducing someone to the AA fellowship, by first qualifying them, then showing them the program, then helping them with it, maybe being their go to person, but generally making sure that they were the kind of alcoholic who could benefit from the program and was open to the spiritual approach.

These days it sometimes seems to involve all kinds of things like being someone's mother, advising them on avery little thing in their life, solving their problems for them, maybe setting stupid tasks like mow my lawns to show you are willing, and a whole lot of nonsense like that.

If you read chapter seven in the book, it gives a better idea of what we should be doing. And the one thing that is clear is that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. In the foreword to the second edition they say that it is vital for permanent recovery.

All that means that we have to give it away to keep it and we can do that by working with another alcoholic is some way. Maybe not in a formal sponsorship role. Perhaps we can find a newcomer and suggest having a coffee together and have a look through the big book. The newcomer can ask questions, and by doing that they would be helping you get a better understanding of the book. The best way to learn this program is to try and explain it to someone else. The newcomer will be helping you, which will be great for their feeling of self worth, and you will be helping too, by deepening your knowledge by explaining it to someone else. Win win as they say, the big benefit for everyone that is willing to try and help others in this way is... we get to stay sober.

A little quote from the big book that might help.

"We know what you are thinking. You are saying to yourself: "I'm jittery and alone. I couldn't do that." But you can. You forget that you have just now tapped a source of power much greater than yourself. To duplicate, with such backing, what we have accomplished is only a matter of willingness, patience and labor."

And another important one about the role of the sponsor.

"It is not the matter of giving that is in question, but when and how to give. That often makes the difference between failure and success. The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God."

Perhaps it is time to consider how much of the sponsorship you have received has been on a service plain, how reliant you are on your sponsor, and how this experience is influencing how you feel about your ability to sponsor. Perhaps many of the things that have been done for you are not things that you feel capable of doing, I could understand that, some sponsors seem like expert therapists and I couldn't do that. But I could sit down with someone and talk about the big book and the steps.

Hi H1,

Yous said you were having doubts about your spiritual awakening, yet your posts show you are thoughtful, positive, willing and open minded, more characteristic of somone who has had an awakening that someone who hasn't.

"I cannot sponsor anyone for a good while since I relapsed." Sorry to hear about the relapse.

You may have mentioned it before but my memory isn't the greatest. It does sound a but like formal sponsoring might not be something for you to attempt right at the moment, but just be aware that the big book places no time restriction on who can sponsor. Ebby sponsored Bill when he was 3 months, Bill Bob, at 6 months, Bob Bill D when he was just a few weeks. But they had all taken the steps as they were then, before sponsoring.

I often think of Bob story with relapse too. When he first met Bill they went through the steps that night. Bob accepted everything except the need to make amends. He got drunk. He came back, made his amends and never drank again. Sometimes the reason some slips is because there is a problem with just one step. Maybe it is a failure to understand our situation in step one which then undermines our thoroughness in other steps. Often it is something held back, a secret kept, in step 5, an amends we refuse to make. If we fix the mistake, we can be back on track like Dr Bob.

You mentioned trust issues, which I always think of as control issues (I don't trust this person to tell them something because I can't control how they might react) so I will keep this secret. And that secret creates tension and that leads to.... If it is a step 5 issue, I suggest you go to a priest or minister of religion. They are not only trained to hear fifth steps, they are bound to keep anything confidential and are about the only people you can make a confession to who can keep it confidential even from the law.

On the other hand, there are a set of promises that come with step 5. They happen only once. If we go back to 5, and I have known a few people who have, hoping to reexperience those promises, we will be disappointed unless of course this is our first thorough houscleaning where we get out the stuff we kept secret last time. This is all food for thought, good for meditation.:)

"I love what you said about having coffee with a newcomer and looking through the Big Book. I can do that now." YES YOU CAN!!:)

Thanks again Fyne Spirit....I think you are probably right about the keeping secrets. I didn't share everything with my first sponsor. Part of the reason is the gender thing. I think the main reason I didn't is that information about sponsees was shared with me which made me wonder if my stuff would be shared with others. So I guarded at least a couple of things about me which if they had been shared with others and I found out about it, I doubt being the way I was--and still am to a degree--that I would ever want to go back to any meetings--at least around here. I know we all have our "stuff" and aren't supposed to keep secrets....I just don't want my secrets shared with others I don't choose to tell myself. I have decided to go to someone else about these particular things --like a therapist or a clergy member when I do this step, as you suggested.

And I never thought of me not trusting having anything to do with trying to control anything other than my own crap. What you said is very interesting to me. I am really going to try and remember that. It is exactly how I feel--about how others would react (be shocked/repulsed/think bad of me, etc.), so I agree with you that has been a concern of mine. I would hear shares in the rooms about how their secrets almost killed them until they were willing to share. I would think...Wow! I feel like I am always learning and I guess that is a very good thing, because although I sometimes feel I know all I need to know (big Ha Ha--obviously, I don't), I probably really know a very small percentage of what is necessary for staying sober. I am always so amazed at shares in the rooms and on this board from people like you who are very insightful and seem to have a real grasp of this program. I don't know if I will live long enough to have a fraction of this insight. I am glad you think that I have had any semblance of a spiritual awakening at all. I don't see it and actually thought, "wow, this person cannot see through my bs", when I read what you wrote about that (Still need work on not putting myself down, I know.)

Anyway, rambling rose is going to stop here. I am trying to keep a leash on my thoughts/typing of mine so my diarrhea mouth doesn't make a mess which is hard to clean up on this board. LOL. Thanks again for your thoughts.

I think one of my biggest problems is that since I drank, I trust myself less than I do anyone else (thus the "bs" comment). I would like to believe that I am being totally sincere and honest about learning my lesson and never picking up again. I thought I was done before. I wasn't. So therefore, I can think but not totally believe myself when I say I will never drink again. All I can say is that I am willing to work as hard as I can to stay sober and try and learn from my mistakes. I do have more faith and trust in God and lean on Him --more than people--more than I ever have. That was hard for me because I was in denial that with all the more important tragedies going on in the world--I mean real human suffering, my stuff was probably too petty for Him to be concerned about, so it was extremely difficult for me, while in prayer, to trust that He heard my prayers and was even listening. I know I would pray and meditate about some of the things which were bothering me and this background chatter was in my head telling me that God was probably up there rolling His eyes at me. I was going through the motions of prayer everyday, more than once sometimes, while believing that I had "belief". That was a lie I told myself.

 

I am not regretting my setback totally, because by doing so, I have a new appreciation for sobriety. I feel so different than I did before it happened. For me, that is a mini spiritual awakening, although I don't think the same kind as is in the BB and I have heard others talk about.  I feel I do have a long way to go yet. I still have to tell myself not to let things get to me, watch being overly sensitive, paranoid, etc. I can catch it and have been able not to let it ruin my whole day. I do think I have found the right path that heads in that direction and I am no longer helpless and hopeless like I was before. And I have two "sponsors" now and God is One of them. I may not trust me, and have difficulties trusting others right now. I can trust God and I know He hears me. I asked Him to please help me get and stay sober because I didn't think I could do it on my own. I know it was Him who helped me.

-- Edited by hopefulone on Thursday 17th of December 2015 03:42:59 PM

Well said, FS

I was doing some research and found that there is a site with quite a bit more about sponsorship if anyone's interested. It has a fairly wide array of shares.

www.e-aa.org/forum/viewtopic.php

I could be your sponsor. I'm all 3.

Yer right Paps...I forgot. I only have a year and a half. Sometimes it feels like longer. 

Sometimes it feels like it was just yesterday. Time flies.

Well, Paps, idk about the "genuine maturity" part, I'm still a goofball kid most of the time. I think alcohol stunts our "maturation" process. But, I'm certainly better now than I was when I was drinking. I think I went from the mind of an 8 year old to maybe say, a 20 year old? Which means I'm still not of legal drinking age, so, I'm not allowed to drink. Maybe I should just stay stuck at 20 for the rest of my life.

my sobriety is like anyone else. If I have just 1 drink, that's it, I'm done. Funny thing is, my damn nicotine addiction makes me realize what would happen if I had "just 1 drink". Just like with the smoking, there's no such thing as "just 1 cigarette". Every time I try to quit, I go for a week or so, then I have "just one cigarette", and an hour later, I'm on my way to the store to buy a pack. And, if I had "just 1 drink", I know, without a doubt, I'd be on my way to the store to buy more alcohol. 

As I've said before, I've lost my desire for alcohol. That's not to say that the desire couldn't ever come back one day. I'm sure it could. But, if it did, I think this time, I have the tools to think it through, before taking that first drink. I hope so, anyway. I know one thing: I never want to go back to that misery, that horrible cycle of drinking, then having to drink every day just to feel better. It sucks. Real bad.

i never miss the alcohol, but, sometimes, I do miss the socialization of the the bar scene. I'm single, and going out and having drinks and hanging out at a local watering hole was a big part of my life. So, sometimes, if I'm driving down the road, and I see a bar, with lots of cars in the parking lot, I think " man, wouldnt it be fun to go in and have a good time". But, I think about the consequences, and 30 seconds later, my mind is on to something else. It's not something I battle every day, just once in a while, and I don't seriously contemplate about actually going in the bar. I've been out to a few bars since I quit drinking. It wasn't a problem for me. But, it's not something I do all the time. It's probably not a good idea to, either.

People like you, Pappy, also help me to "remember" the consequences. I was down in the dumps right before I quit drinking, but, (don't take this the wrong way), not as far down as you. You were in the hospital, on your deathbed. I didn't let it get that far, but when you share your story, it makes me realize that I wasn't that far away, and if I had continued to drink, I would have been sharing a room in the hospital with you. 

Also, having a good friend that has 3 years of sobriety helps me, too. I don't mean a sponsor. I mean a real friend, who I've knew when he was a drunk, and i watched him get off the shit. And he was a bad alcoholic, and I know if he can stay sober, so can I. It really helps having sober friends. 

Like you, Pappy.

 

Baba Louie wrote:

---

Well, Paps, idk about the "genuine maturity" part, I'm still a goofball kid most of the time. I think alcohol stunts our "maturation" process. But, I'm certainly better now than I was when I was drinking. I think I went from the mind of an 8 year old to maybe say, a 20 year old? Which means I'm still not of legal drinking age, so, I'm not allowed to drink. Maybe I should just stay stuck at 20 for the rest of my life.

my sobriety is like anyone else. If I have just 1 drink, that's it, I'm done. Funny thing is, my damn nicotine addiction makes me realize what would happen if I had "just 1 drink". Just like with the smoking, there's no such thing as "just 1 cigarette". Every time I try to quit, I go for a week or so, then I have "just one cigarette", and an hour later, I'm on my way to the store to buy a pack. And, if I had "just 1 drink", I know, without a doubt, I'd be on my way to the store to buy more alcohol. 

As I've said before, I've lost my desire for alcohol. That's not to say that the desire couldn't ever come back one day. I'm sure it could. But, if it did, I think this time, I have the tools to think it through, before taking that first drink. I hope so, anyway. I know one thing: I never want to go back to that misery, that horrible cycle of drinking, then having to drink every day just to feel better. It sucks. Real bad.

i never miss the alcohol, but, sometimes, I do miss the socialization of the the bar scene. I'm single, and going out and having drinks and hanging out at a local watering hole was a big part of my life. So, sometimes, if I'm driving down the road, and I see a bar, with lots of cars in the parking lot, I think " man, wouldnt it be fun to go in and have a good time". But, I think about the consequences, and 30 seconds later, my mind is on to something else. It's not something I battle every day, just once in a while, and I don't seriously contemplate about actually going in the bar. I've been out to a few bars since I quit drinking. It wasn't a problem for me. But, it's not something I do all the time. It's probably not a good idea to, either.

People like you, Pappy, also help me to "remember" the consequences. I was down in the dumps right before I quit drinking, but, (don't take this the wrong way), not as far down as you. You were in the hospital, on your deathbed. I didn't let it get that far, but when you share your story, it makes me realize that I wasn't that far away, and if I had continued to drink, I would have been sharing a room in the hospital with you. 

Also, having a good friend that has 3 years of sobriety helps me, too. I don't mean a sponsor. I mean a real friend, who I've knew when he was a drunk, and i watched him get off the shit. And he was a bad alcoholic, and I know if he can stay sober, so can I. It really helps having sober friends. 

Like you, Pappy.

---

 What does your sponsor have to say about this practice in your program of recovery, BL?

I agree with Baba, ... the same path has opened up for me in my life ... I had a very serious addiction to alcohol, finally got sick enough to seek help, got it, came to practice the AA principles in all my affairs, and the 'desire' to drink was removed ...

The need to shelter my life from alcoholic activities is no longer necessary, as it was the first year or so ... it's damn near impossible anyway ... I just needed the tools to keep my senses 'bout myself in order to live life free from that crap ... which is simply a slow work'n poison that destroys everything in it's path ...

 

Pappy

Yes, you're right. I did change the subject. The thread title is "do's and donts of choosing a 12 step sponsor". 

My apologies to the OP for hijacking the topic.

In another thread, you replied to someone: "it's important not to fall into the "there is only 1 solution" trap". 

A part of my program is to not let my quitting alcohol make me feel like I'm depriving myself of anything. A lot of people "slip" when quitting a problem substance, because they feel like they're depriving themselves. They feel like they have to stay home, and watch TV, and stay away from social situations that involve alcohol. I've heard it from people before: "I'm not going to that party, because everyone is going to be drinking, and I don't want to be tempted". So, they stay at home, and it eats at them. They think "why can't I go out and have a good time. My life sucks. I'm depriving myself of the things in life that everyone else enjoys". 

I'm not saying this is the case with everybody, but I have seen and heard it before. If someone feels like they can't or don't want to be around situations that involve alcohol, and staying away from it is working for them, then by all means, they should continue to do so. Me, I don't want to change my social life drastically just because I don't drink alcohol anymore. I can go anywhere I want. I just don't drink.

good thing I didn't fall into the "there is only 1 solution" trap.

A "few" would be more than 1. 

2 is a pair. A few is more than 2, less than 5. A bunch is between 5-10. 12 is a dozen. Maybe that answers your question about how many bars I've been to since I quit drinking.