I've only been a member of AA for a few years now, but every now'n then I hear someone with a year or two tell me, "I just don't 'get it'" ...
I have witnessed members with 10, even 20 years that how somehow managed to get 'n stay sober who have never 'got it' ... some of those may, or may not, admit it ... it's easy to tell by the way they 'enjoy' life or not ... maybe they get cutoff in traffic and let loose with a bunch of foul language and horn blow'n or maybe they simply walk around 'depressed' all the time ... maybe they were able to stay sober on a resentment ... it happens ...
Such people, and you've seen them, are not taking advantage of the full benefits of our AA program ... the release from the fears of the past, they hold on to 'old ideas' and are not able to give themselves fully to this program ... and they unwittingly sponsor others without teaching what our program has to offer ... because they, themselves have not fully understood what it means to give ourselves over to a 'Higher Power' ... their 'belief, or faith', just never took hold of them ... they resolve to themselves to keep 'going through the motions' ... (acting 'as if' only works for a little while) ... (but it DOES help) ...
Just how does one 'get it' ??? ... there is 'power' in the unseen ... there is 'power' in prayer ... 'the Force' is really there ... Luke Skywalker almost had total faith at one point but at some point, 'doubt' creeped in and he failed ... but as he came to have stronger faith in 'the Force', he was more able to accomplish the impossible ...
In my life, I have experienced 3 instances where good, honorable friends were found to be dying of various medical issues ... I, and some of my friends, prayed for life to continue for these individuals, all of whom had been told by their respective doctors, they had but a few days left ... death was certain and they needed to get their affairs 'in order' ... there was 'nothing' left that could be done, but to put them at ease ...
Each recovered, one in my AA home group in Atlanta, to go on to live as an example to me and others for years afterward ... THERE IS A HIGHER POWER AT WORK AND I WITNESSED THIS GREATNESS FIRST HAND ... I chose to call this power God ... and one day on the way to a meeting, this God I never knew, moved into the car with me and the greatest 'peace' I've ever know in my life came over me in a powerful swoop ... I cannot fine the words to describe what I felt, but it was overwhelming and convincing ... my life has changed but is not without pain, but I know there is a God and He is watching over us ... can I see Him???, no, but He is there ... some faith is all that was needed ...
For me, I believe that 'day' I was going to a meeting is 'the day' I 'got it' ... I can find 'nothing' these days that I need to worry my silly little head over, all is being taken care of in my best interest as long as I believe ... I have no reason to 'challenge' this power now ... for me, everything happens for a reason, and I am fine with that ... God loves me AND you ... whether you believe it or not ... I know!!! ...
Love you guys and God Bless,
Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Monday 2nd of November 2015 09:48:39 AM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I use that'' i dont get'' because if i got it then maybe i am God, and dont have to live by spiritual principles , i am over 20 year mark and i will live by spiritual principals work with other alcoholic s or i am drinking , i have what the bigbook talks about God conscious today , i have at times experience joy ,happyness and just everything is ok , and pain fear ,and anger but not like i use to rock bottom , this program helps me with all that , i live on pages 84-88 and bill mentions Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. It does not say'' if they crop up'' it says wen'' , that is just my take on it ''good question''
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-- Edited by BLUESMAN on Monday 2nd of November 2015 02:49:26 PM
Hey there Bluesman, always good to hear from you ...
I understand your reply ... but the in the 'context' of this 'I don't get it' post, the message was that there are those who work the program for a long time, that are not getting what I call the 'Promises' and they comment that they just don't get it, cause they are still wrapped up in a troubled life and see no way for it to end ... especially when they see others in the program that have gone through total transformations and are living totally happy and wonderful lives ... like the book sez, their whole 'attitude and outlook on life' has changed ...
When I hear a person say, 'I just don't get it', personally, I feel this may be due to an incomplete step 2 and 3 ... and this may hinge on whether or not a person actually believes in a 'higher power' or not, or they just give the impression that they do ...
For me, I think it was due to a process of me becoming aware of what was happening around me ... the miracles I have seen 'up close 'n personal' was one thing, but I started becoming aware of hopeless people coming into our rooms and seeing them recover from alcoholism and it was stunning to watch ... and if a person will 'open' their eyes and watch these miracles and know them for what they are, how then, can they not 'get it' ??? ...
We cannot do a step 3 and keep taking back control ... else we will never see the promises come true for ourselves ...
It's like my signature at the bottom of every post ... 'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.' ... I believe when a person is able to do this, then 'they get it' ...
Love you guys and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I think I get what you mean, the "it" being the fourth dimension of existence of which we hadn't even dreamed. I am not sure I ever had the power to go and get it myself, instead it seems to have been a blessing freely given when I was ready, if that makes any sense. Maybe it is one of those hindsight things. I didn't engineer it, it just happened. I can look back and see how things changed. It went something like this:
Came to AA utterly defeated and surrendered. White flag, I give up, I can't beat this thing and I probably never will. There is no hope for me I am utterly hopeless. Maybe step 1.
Listening in the meetings for a few days and it became apparent that I needed some kindl of God to fix me. I came to believe that whatever was working for these other folk might work for me too. Initially, I made the group my higher power.
Made a decision to do whatever it took to find the real higher power, not the human one in the form of the group. Began by praying to I didn't know what.
Was given the courage and sense of need to tackle steps four and five, steps I was sure I would never do (first sign of a spiritual awakening?). Got them done in a weekend, with the help of my sponsor, the most selfless person I ever met. Expreienced the fifth step promises exactly as described. Began to have a conscious spiritula experience which manifested in various ways over the next few weeks. Carried on with the next steps, began making amends, the drink problem was removed. Had by then discovered that people had feet of clay, and had found my Higher Power.
Then I began living in steps 10, 11 and 12, the growth steps. By growth I mean not only spiritual, but emotional as well. I had to grow up in the world. This lead to years of getting it wrong, making mistakes, learning lessons, acquiring wisdom, going off at a tangent etc. My personal growth path was not a straight line.
But, for the most part, I kept working with others, kept trying to practice these principles in all my affairs. I never lost the feeling that God was with me, but for a while I did lose my way in AA. What really kicked me into the fourth dimension was the fact that God planted a question in my mind about how I was working with others, what I was telling them, and why they were not getting well doing what I suggested. This lead me back to the big book and big book study (we never had anything like that when I came in) and it revitalised my understanding of the program and what my sponsor had taught me. At some 20 years sobriety I could have been described as one who got it, then lost it (without drinking) then got it in spades:)
Now for me meetings are a place to contribute and I enjoy them immensely. But also they are the best place to find those folk who really want it, and show them what is in the big book. When I am doing that, I am going through the steps again myself, and I can't describe how wonderful that is, to be working with another. It's all Gods work. I didn't change, he changed me.
Now Pappy, I don't know if I agree about steps 2 and 3 as for me they did not bring about any God consciousness. But I think what happened to me to set me firmly on the path was complete defeat at the start. Knowing my human resources had failed absolutely. I knew I had no choice but to go to any lengths to get this thing. I reall did know the seriousness of my condition. I was out of options.
And it seems that total defeat is an essential prerequisite for spiritual experience. It won't happen until we are beaten which explains why some folks have major transforming spiritual upheavels many years into sobriety.
For the ones that stay dry but never get it long term, might it be that they never quite felt defeated in the beginning, that if this didn't work they would have other options and choices (certainly there is no shortage of people today who will tell them they have many options), mabe they did not understand the seriousness of their situation? From what I can find out, someone in such a position is unlikely to go to any lengths without reservation and from such a position spiritual experience is all but impossible.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Tuesday 3rd of November 2015 04:33:36 AM
In answer to your question, yes I have....in fact, I have said that.
I have believed in God most all of my life. I am a Christian, and so it is a package deal for me. I know folks who don't believe in praying for others to get well. They said it is "God's will" whatever happens and to pray to God to make someone better is trying to change His will to their will. I don't happen to believe that way, however, what they say does make sense to me if I am to believe that everything that happens does so for a "reason".
I have prayed for family and friends who have been and are sick...even people I don't know. I remember when I was a kid, laying in bed and my prayers would get pretty lengthy. I would pray for all those kids I would see on t.v., with their extended bellies and sunken eyes--flies landing on them and buzzing all around them smelling and waiting for death. I believe it was a Christian Children's Fund commercial. Everyday I have prayed. Some folks I prayed for made it--some didn't--others I am not sure. God's will. I was in the hospital for two months and one of the people I prayed for everyday was for my baby. My grandmother was among one of those who was praying for her. Despite my and others' prayers, my baby was one of the ones who didn't make it. My grandmother called me after she died trying to make me "feel better"...."It's God's will" she told me. For some reason, I didn't want to believe it was "God's will" that a two day old baby died.
I do believe that some of the things that happen in our lives we will never understand. It is confusing to me, however, to hear from some that "everything that has happened and is happening in my life is supposed to happen...." "God's or my HP's 'plan'"...if that is the case, then how can my non-belief or belief, my praying or not praying have much if anything to do with His "plan"? I can either believe some of it or none of it. I can either blame myself for things which go wrong in my life or blame Him. I can either give myself some of the credit for things that go right in my life, or give Him all of that credit. Or I can be somewhat in the middle and tell myself, "ok, when things go wrong in my life, it is because I am not doing something right" and give praise and show gratitude for Him for all the Blessings I do have, and try not to begrudge the crappy things that exist, and try to "change the things I can". I tend to try and do the latter of all of those, so as not to completely lose my sanity as well as my faith.
I don't know what Steps I missed or didn't get. I prayed everyday to God to keep me sober and thanked Him everyday for keeping me sober. Although I still do that, I really believe it is up to me to stay sober. I am and will continue to pray for family members and friends and even those helpless starving babies, many who will feed the flies better than they were fed. I would like to stay sober, but really whatever fate I have is so much more better than the fate they had. So I will try not to whine too much about what step I did or did not complete on my "journey". I will just "try".
Do I "get it"? I do now...I drank. Simple as that. It's a "simple" program and perhaps I made it too complicated and didn't listen enough to that famous AA slogan..."just don't drink". Actually, I am so much better than I was...backed off of meetings and am spending alot more time doing my business...and am making more money than I have in years and maybe, just maybe will be able to pull myself out of "poverty level". When I get depressed and annoyed, I get busy. It is true... "An idle mind is the devil's workshop". I made AA my life...with meetings and service work. All of that helped me stay sober, but it didn't keep me sober. I am doing other things now which are keeping me sober. And I still pray because now I believe more than ever that "God helps those who help themselves" and I no longer believe I am as "powerless" as I used to believe I was.
-- Edited by hopefulone on Tuesday 3rd of November 2015 06:35:52 AM
Excellent reply posts Mike and H1, ... thanks for your participation ...
Mike, your description of your personal journey in AA mirrors mine very closely ... the only hiccup I had was this darn cancer thingy through me off my routine of daily meetings ... well, that and a relocation to a different state didn't help ... but the most important steps in my life today are steps 10, 11, and 12 ... those steps pretty much tell us the path to extended recovery, both with the 'drink' and with everyday 'life' ... those steps are the 'reason' I still come here to this site, to help others to recover wherever the opportunity presents itself ... much like you ...
H1, ... yes, I have to admit, it was you that inspired the idea for this post to start with ... cause I've heard the comment in AA on occasion ... you are not unique, we all go through similar phases of 'questioning' ourselves and our motives and just 'what or whom' is to be our 'higher power' ... ... ... the challenges in life we have are not because of anything we've done, we are not being punished, we are being led in a direction of His choosing that we may not ever understand ... God gave us the power of choice, ever since the beginning of time ... we can choose to believe Him or no ... God has a way of testing our faith ... we know this by the examples He gave us in the Big BB ... He even asked one guy to sacrifice his own son, after many many years of not having any kids ... to sacrifice his kid then was like killing himself, but he went to do it anyway, because God asked him to ...
So, we have no idea what is in God's way of think'n when we loose a loved one, a close friend, a mom, a dad, and yes, a child ... all we can hope for is that the way we are living and our actions are pleasing to Him ... 'cause end the end, that's all that counts ... we must believe that else what is life for ... we must learn to live in faith, hope, and love, else life has no meaning what-so-ever ... we are free to choose our own way ... I choose to believe ... no one else reading this has to follow in the path that I chose, it's not a requirement ...
I also believe that any help I've been able to give others here and elsewhere, is only because I was chosen to live through the hardships of being alcoholic and have the experience to help others who find themselves in the same freak'n pit that I found myself in ... there is a way out, and I have lived it ... and any 'credit' for such help to others goes to God not me, I'm simply one of His messengers ... and It was my belief in God that got me through the pain I had with this cancer ordeal ... He gets the credit for my survival, not the Docs ... they just followed a set procedure which sometimes works and sometimes it don't ... and maybe this cancer and pain I am, and have, gone through is so I can help someone else get through the same or similar thing ... ??? ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I think it is a wonderful and positive thing whenever someone is able to use painful experiences they have been and possibly are still going through to help others in any way....whether in or out of AA.
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