First of all, thanks to each one of you for helping me get to day 20. I still can't quite believe it and there is no way I could have done 24 hours let alone 4800 of them on my own, so I am grateful to those in AA near and far.
Understandably, many on here are very big into God. The word tends to make me cringe. I had bad experiences with religion growing up. I used to be a pretty staunch atheist until about a year or so ago and it still wasn't "God" per se, but sort of a general energy of the world or the universe. It's hard to explain.
I do believe in praying for people who need help or are sick, that's mainly what I do, not even sure if I believe in it. But it was something.
Yesterday I found out that my friend's daughter is going to die. She is 12. She has the same neurological disorder as my significant other's daughter, whom I love very much. She has it hard as it is. Neither of them can walk, talk, use their hands, or eat much by mouth, but they have strong cognitive functioning and understand a lot. They just can't express themselves in traditional ways. They also have frequent seizures. But they are happy girls, despite going through so much pain on a daily basis. .
Seeing them suffer to begin with makes it hard for me to believe in any sort of God that has a plan. I feel like if torturing and killing these girls is part of a plan, I don't want to be part of it. How am I supposed to let that in and be grateful to it? I know I am very lucky in many ways in my life. But that's all it feels like, luck and effort.
I know it's an age old question, but how do you reconcile things like this with turning your life over to something that is supposedly okay with that? This girl's death will not be easy and it will not be quick. I am just at a loss to reconcile that. I can't "just believe" or accept it. If any of you have wrestled with this, even with different reasons behind it (hell I feel that way even after watching the news some days), a way through or perspective shift would be appreciated.
Yup, I hear ya. And when people tried to tell me "well, God must have some plan that we can't see" to try to explain all of the random terrible things that happen to good people, it really didn't make any sense to me either. But there are lots of other ways to look at this issue. There are plenty of concepts of God or a Higher Power that don't have anything to do with the idea of an omnipotent being that is directly responsible for every good and bad event that happens. In those concepts, "God's Will" is not something that happens to us, it is something that we DO when we are living the right way. "God's will" is an ideal goal for how we should be living. Take a look at step eleven. It talks about prayer, but what is it that we are praying for? "Knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out". It's talking about becoming aware of what we should DO, and then doing it. Not praying for good things to happen. (Of course, you can do that too, your concept of God is up to you, it's just that those types of prayer are not really what step eleven is talking about).
This type of concept of a Higher Power, as a set of basic spiritual principles like Honesty, Openmindedness, Willingness, Patience, Empathy, etc. as a direction for guiding my thoughts and actions, was certainly a Power that was greater than my own messed up knee-jerk alcoholic self will. I made a daily commitment to turn my (self)will over to this better, saner, healthier set of principles to direct my life, one day at a time, starting with not drinking today.
These spiritual principles are readily apparent right here all around us, in our daily lives, visible in the lives of people who are taking the right actions. Including me. Is there some mysterious supernatural entity responsible for these forces of good? I don't know. It doesn't matter. I just keep in mind that I'm doing all of this because I want to recover from alcoholism. I don't need to figure out what God is and how the universe works. I hope this helps.
Congratulations on making it 20 days without a drink. Good for you.
I too was doubting God and His existence because I had some horrible experiences and my faith went through the wringer. It is not my job to turn your thinking around just because I believe in God and have faith in Him now. People have told me since I have been sober not to overthink things, keep it simple, etc. I think for anyone trying to stay sober--especially newcomers--this is good to keep in mind. It is not important right now that you analyze all of the things in your life and others close to you that you feel are unfair and ask questions like "if there is a God, then why didn't He prevent this from happening." I did have these type of questions when I first got sober. My faith at first was the faith I had in AA and the people in the room. God came later for me the longer I was sober. That may or may not come for you. That's ok. The important thing is that you have faith in something greater than yourself, because if you are truly an alcoholic like I am, you are "powerless over alcohol".
I want to add that if every alcoholic who tried AA and thought they had to believe in God to succeed in this program, then there would be a lot more alcoholics who would not recover and die from this disease.
goin through chemo about 7 years ago, I was out walkin the halls of the unit of the hospital I was in( I had to be admitted for the chemo as it was rather intense and the area of the hospital was where bone marrow transplants took place) I walked by a room where there was one of them lil beds like in the maternity ward. all kinds of IV lines goin down into that lil bed, then I saw this lil hand pop up from inside the bed. when I got back to my room, I was pretty messed up in my head. that lil child may never see his/her 1st day of school. may never get a drivers license. may never experience their 1st kiss.
I sat there and let it fester for a while. there I was 40 years old, had made a mess of my life. hurt a lot of people along the way. yeah, I got sober, had cleared away the wreckage of my past and wasn't the man I was when I was drinkin, but dam!!! why????? why would God do this???
it took a few conversations with different people plus lots of prayers for clarity. many things came to me.
I don't know why, but I have faith in my God that His plan is good. if I get to thinkin it isn't, I have to find another God with a good plan.
I have had many questions like this come up over the years and have had no solid answer for all of them. i believe there are questions God says,"tom, you don't need the answer to this, but please trust me that i know why and the reason is good. you will find out one day."
acceptance isn't always easy, but my serenity is directly proportional to my level of acceptance.
One of my favorite passages from the Big Book...Page 55.
Yet we had been seeing another kind of flight, a spiritual liberation from this world, people who rose above their problems. They said God made these things possible, and we only smiled. We had seen spiritual release, but liked to tell ourselves it wasn't true.
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
I had to do two things....Lay aside my prejudices....My old ideas....And I had to search fearlessly. I don't question God's plan....I ask for direction to help make it better. Make me useful....One of my favorite prayers.
You're probably wondering...How did you search fearlessly? Real simple. I honestly and thoroughly worked those 12 steps as laid out in the book with a sponsor who had done them. I found what I was looking for.
Great post WWO, ... and some great responses already ...
I had come face-to-face with these same questions you are posing, as most of us do ... it was very hard for me to accept the issues you brought up in your post ... I learned that we all, even the little children, have our own personal and unique journey in life ... some of us are given heavier crosses to bare than others ... why him, why her, why them in that plane that went down, why mom, why dad, why my brother, sister, daughter, son, etc. ... why me, why me, why me ??? ...
Just 2 weeks shy of my first AA BD, my son was in an auto accident that broke his neck in several places, if he survived, he'd be a Quadriplegic for the rest of his life, he was 28 at the time ... ... ... though he regain partial use of his hands, he'll never walk again or feel anything from his chest down ... I almost lost my sobriety over this, but constant support from constant meetings got me through it ... and I asked God WHY ??? so many times ... why him and not me, and if He could let me take my son's place, please make it happen ...
My other son, 40 y/o, has a syndrome similar to Downs, ... has the mentality of a 5 y/o, and must live in a 'full care' facility ... WHY did God do this to my family I once asked ? ... what did me and my wife do that was deserving of such things ? ... the answer is nothing ... horrible things are a part of life and give us cause to find God so as to learn how to live the life He would want for us ... Who's responsible for these atrocities ??? ... Usually, and most all the time, it's mankind, and what we have done, or how we have lived that has brought us to were we are today with the pains of life that we must go through ... Yes, mankind has sought out guidance from sources other than God, evil in a lot of cases ... therefore there are rapes, murders, deathly illnesses, etc. of innocent people that we set ourselves up for as a nation of people who know no God ...
The Big big book gives us a ton of examples of the hardships that those who believed in God had to endure ... yet those that believed, knew God was in control and kept their faith through all the hardships ... I could go on and on and on, but I can only hope I've made some small point of all this ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I hear stories like yours every day. From the perils of human suffering to the tragedy of broken relationships, stories like these abound everywhere. It's just part of this magnificent reality we call life, sad as it may be. The truth is; there will always be some strange event that defies conventional wisdom, with or without our cooperation. It's how lives unfold that's all. In fact, there's no escaping that revolving kaleidoscope even if we try, it's how the circle of life evolves, without question.
There are no words to describe the anguish you must feel, but rest assured you are not alone in your grief. "In any adversity, big or small, there will always be a seed of equal or greater benefit", that's a given. The only problem, waiting around for the verdict.
I remember an incident that happened some years ago. A local police officer was killed trying to break up a domestic dispute. It was all over the news. The whole tragedy could have been prevented, but just like most heated arguments the outcome is usually more painful than the incident itself. It's something that happens all too often. So I guess the only question that remains is 'why', why do these things happen? Good question.
I guess one way to approach tragedy, besides offering the usual condolences, is to become advocates for change -just like our community after the death of that officer. Everyone reached out to the families involved including the perpetrators. In so doing we bonded together as one cohesive unit. It was one way to show solidarity even in a very uncomfortable situation. And the same can be said for other communities around the world.
The crucial turning point in any crisis is the integration of social demand or what others call community involvement, rather than some half baked theological discussion on the existence of God, which could only complicate matters worse. So we decided to take a more unified approach, including the adaptation of social reform or what others call 'emotional rescue'. For us, it was the only remedy that made any real sense.
I remember an incident that happened back in 2007. I was driving home from a meeting one foggy evening when a deer darted out in front of my car. Thank God I have good reflexes or chances are I wouldn't have survived. My vehicle skid off the side of the road just before we collided, but that was only half the battle. What came next was just as frightening. My car began a slow decent down a deep embankment, which in most cases would have been my demise, but I was lucky this time around. My car came to rest on a fallen tree that had blocked my departure, thank God, but it was still a frightening ordeal. I mean, talk about a crazy misadventure. Was this outcome predetermined or was it simply coincidental? That's up to interpretation. The truth is; I never felt alone in my ordeal, not even for a moment. Why? I knew someone or something was guiding me, and that's all I needed at the specific moment. It was my reassurance that everything was going to be okay. And that's how I define my relationship with God. It's like we were in tune with each other right at that specific moment. It was my way of letting go and letting God.
So why does God allow suffering? Good question. From a human perspective, it doesn't make any sense, but from a divine perspective it makes perfect sense. Only God knows what's best for his people, and who are we to question that. It's how we make sense out of something so tragic. The only possible remedy that makes any sense is also the most logical one as well, and it all flows through 'unified' channels we call support networks, plain and simple. When we 'ease someones pain' we become an advocate of change and that's how the healing begins, without question.
Let's face it: When we find enough inner peace to deal with our past and enough courage to deal with the future, chances are you'll have no problem dealing with the present, and what better way than through acceptance. When we accept our current circumstances, as they come to pass, we'll be more accepting of others, plain and simple. That way we can be of greater service 'now' and in the future. I hope others agree. Onward.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Thursday 15th of May 2014 10:55:23 PM
Mr. David posted.... "Let's face it: When we find enough inner peace to deal with our past and enough courage to deal with our future, chances are you'll have no problem dealing with the present, and what better way than through acceptance. When we accept our current circumstances, as they come to pass, we'll be more accepting of others, plain and simple. That way we can be of greater service, now and in the future. I hope others agree. Onward."
Agree. That is just beautiful and I want to be able to do that in my own life, Mr. David. Thanks so much for your posting.
