I have developed a friendship with another alcoholic. We along with my SO have had long chats before and after the meetings, gone out for coffee and meals, etc. for a few months now. This person said recently that they became so angry with another person (not an AA'er, but a stranger) that they actually wanted to kill that person and planned out how to do it--by going and buying a pair of scissors and stabbing the person. When he was telling us about it, his expression and mannerisms were frightening for me to watch. He said it was very difficult but he managed to calm down, so nothing happened. This was over both wanting the same parking spot, for God's sake. No words were exchanged. My question is ---is this normal behavior for someone who has been sober for several years? I don't think it is normal behavior for anyone and am scared to be friends with this person. Only problem is, we both attend the same meetings and I hate to just stop attending them as I love so many of the people there. Another thing is my SO who drives me to these meetings still wants to be friends with this man. Am I being too judgmental? I know I have never thought about killing anyone. I am worried if I make this person angry (especially by dropping him as a friend) how do I know he isn't going to come after me? I am pretty scared right now and appreciate any advice.
I know one thing for sure....I wouldn't take his parking spot. BTY...I do the best that I can to replace calamity with serenity in my life....If it means putting distance between myself and someone that affects that...Then that's what I have to do. I don't let anyone dictate to me what meetings I attend. I have a few that I disagree with...And a few that actually scare me. I attend the meetings...Remain polite....And I stick with people that positively affect my sobriety. Simple as that.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 6th of January 2014 09:58:44 AM
Good question. Stepchild makes a good point. WE need to take care of ourselfs. If this person makes you uncomfortable it's o.k. to put some distance(boundary) between them and you. You can still go to the same meetings and say Hello and have small talk, but nothing beyond that to maintain your serenity. The BB states: Step 10- love and tolerance is our code. We stop fighting anyone or anything. As far as your SO- I would suggest letting him make his own decision on whether he wants to spend time with this individual or not. We live and let live today. God still runs the show.
Just playing devils advocate here- what if this individual trusted you folks enough to tell you the truth even if it may have been embellished? Some folks need to say their thoughts out loud so they lose the power over them. We are a varied lot and some are still dealing with heavy anger issues. Just a thought here. I've heard some brutal honesty within the Fellowship that's opened my eyes wide on several occcassions.
Either way, it's just a decision today. I've found when I take care of me, everything else seems to fall into place the way it should.
Thanks so much for your responses. I also will pray to my HP for guidance about this matter. I certainly try to be fair and do not want to pass judgement on another human being. Just got a bit scared to hear that from someone who I have enjoyed having as a friend.
((((BTY)))) you get to make decisions for yourself now...if the consequence you need is personal safety make the choice for that to happen. Homicidal, suicidal, all the cidal issues cause concern and I would be concerned especially enough to say up front and personal that the conversation scared or concerned me and was he asking for help? At times my homicidal ideations surface. Sometimes with my ptsd and other times when I'm triggered by fear. A part of my sober reprogramming was and is being able to have the thoughts and feelings and 1. not drinking over it and 2. not acting on it. In the past before AA I did both and now I don't. My sponsorship taught me that the thoughts and feelings couldn't cause me to drink or act...that was a separate other choice. The also couldn't kill me. I've learned alot thru the 4th thru 9th step process by doing the process repeatedly; not a 10th and a searching and fearless moral inventory repeatedly. This is just for me and I have no idea where this other fellow is or has been. Has he ever committed or attempted homicide before? does he have the experience? If for me he has the experience and has control problems then I would create distance and I would also speak to someone in public safety. I would do this because this is what was done to and for me...part of my recovery experiences.
His graphic descriptions are distrubing...he needs to know that as mostly the thing he would least like creating is distance in loving and caring relationships. AA relationships are hugely beneficial...We love each other into and thru sobriety...at least here in Hawaii. We do not desire separation from the ones we love and who love us in return. Maybe he needs to know and understand that rather than drawing others in the program closer to him he is pushing them away.
Loss of a parking space?...Dr. Pauls lessons on acceptance handles this issue very well. Does this sound "self centered to the extreem" for me it does. Does it sound like "Easing God Out"...that too. King Baby? surely. He is not your sponsee. Relay the information to your SO also as it affects your relationship. "...the courage to change the things I can" also comes to mind. You're growing...nice.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 6th of January 2014 10:16:01 PM
Sometimes people, even those with time in AA, are kind of socially retarded. Maybe the more you get to know this guy, you will see it was lke a comment that was just weird and inappropriate but he's not a real threat. I mean, look at whatever facts there are BTY....is he a felon? A history of violence? I'm wondering if he was just trying to share with you some of his frustrated thoughts and took a leap too soon about what was appropriate to share. Some people have some scary crap going on up in their noggins and they share it to not be alone with it.... Sounds like he shared this stuff with the wrong person (poor boundaries).
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
After sleeping on this and rereading these posts, which again I greatly appreciate....I realize that you great folks have given me a different perspective. This is a great person who perhaps is struggling with anger issues and was releasing some of that to someone he felt he could trust. Not having had those kinds of thoughts myself, it was very difficult for me to relate to what he was going through and making it about me ("wonder if he gets mad at me and does the harey carey thing to me?") And perhaps he was embellishing it a bit; although if that is the case I certainly wish he would keep his active imagination to himself. My mom used to tell my siblings and me "I'm going to wring your neck." My dad would say "I'm going to kill you." I don't think I took either one of them so seriously that I felt my life was endangered, but I really cannot remember how I felt back then. (Although it sure would explain a lot about my insecurity and fear of abandonment issues.) I do think I will try and work up the courage to talk to him and let him know that he did scare me and ask him if he would like to talk about anything and maybe I can help him in some way. He has been in AA for several years, has never had a sponsor and is not working the steps. I cannot help but wonder how much different his attitude might be if he was actually working the program. (My SO doesn't have a sponsor either and has the same sobriety date as me, if he is on the up and up about staying sober all along--I have had doubts, but I deal with my sobriety and that is all I can handle. I don't snoop for bottles or any evidence. That's his broom handle to hold, not mine.) Anyway, if I can make any difference in this guy's life, that is a good thing. Know he has said we are the only friends he has in AA.
-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Tuesday 7th of January 2014 11:00:21 AM
I've know a few who were "socially attached" to recovery myself...I don't hang with them at all and don't want to. I acknowledge them as being worth of sobriety and also acknowledge them as not being good sober support. Often times the relationship seems to be pre-recovery and only the booze is missing...just for me. I don't like the term "half measures" either because I can see the outcome...for me. It appears you're getting grounded in your sobriety BTY...looks great. (((hugs)))
Jerry, yes...this bothered me as well because I think that is why some people in AA who used to be friendly to me, started ignoring me. I have even had a couple of them come up to me and ask why I am friends with him. Hard to tell because as I have posted, I am paranoid about such things. The person shared that he had suicidal thoughts and didn't have many friends in AA. I felt he was kind of a loner, like myself. I was hoping that by being around me and hearing about me working the program, he may get more serious. Heck that isn't even working with my SO so what was I thinking??? He did say that the thoughts he had about harming himself went away and he thought it was because we befriended him. That made me feel better for him but worse for me because I hate feeling like I am responsible for anyone's safety in that extreme and that is what is making this situation that I posted above that much more difficult....however, I am more concerned of my own safety and I think in AA we are only supposed to be responsible for ourselves.
