I am so happy to join this site and I would welcome any advice on the above subject. My situation is that I am 5months sober and feel I have finally got my life back on track.It is down to my higher power, the meetings and support from other AA members. Previous to the 5 months I had a serious slip. A member of AA helped me through the 6 days of hell.This included bringing me to the doctor,helping me with the detox, staying with me all the time.phoning friends,,feeding me and all the rest. I really was so grateful and couldn't thank them enough.I am 100p/c sure there was no romantic interest on their behalf.
However, the more I got sober the more of a friendly bond was developed and we often go to meeting together but I noticed on occasion the person didn't sound too happy with my good progress and started to make strange comments like 'well, don't do that because it might be too much for you etc...'Because I am a newbie I never know if these comment are good advise. They seem to be getting worse and he is quoting from the big book when he can't get through to me. I know most of his advice is because he fears i will drink but it is so irritating. He heard I wasn't at a meeting once and he said it to me that' its important to pack them in' when i told him i was tired he said in a load voice 'you'll see what will happen to you if you don't go.'.Anyway, i stopped talking to him over that but we became friendly again because he is a neighbour all was good for the first week and this behavour has flared up again..I was telling him i got a job and there was total silence , then i said i was planning a small holiday in January with AA members and he said'well, don't plan too much in the future..I feel he burst my bubble over and over but because he is 6 years sober I respect that he knows all the dangers.I'm so confused.this person goes to 3 meeting a day and seem happy.
Hopefully you have a female sponsor as well to run this by. I don't know your friend enough to speculate but finding your own healthy boundaries with this guy will likely occur as you work with your sponsor and do the steps. When I was doing this, and developing better boundaries, the drama in relationships like you are saying dropped. I started replying "thanks for you suggestion but I already have a sponsor." That nipped the dynamics you are describing with folks that has other motives or were just treading on my boundaries. the beginning, I subconsciously invited others to act like my sponsor by not setting those boundaries clearly.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for your reply. I do have a female sponsor but unfortunately we all attend the same AA meeting living in a small town and it is so convenient for me. It was him that suggested her to me ,so I havn't really shared it with her. I have it almost down to just answering his texts. He pretty much says the same thing over and over 'how did you cope today'...I say the same thing' 'had a good day thanks....He is also telling other members that he is concerned about me and it's making me paranoid.He would not have a clue what I am doing during the day etc. I guess it's the first time I have dealt with a situation like this before and I do admit I am only learning about boundaries,jes, I was so naive at the start.
Hi Angel, Just so you'll know from the outset, I'm a male member of A.A. Okay...that being established, what you're telling us on your post sounds to be VERY unhealthy for you. Females in A.A. always need the help of other female A.A. members....not males. Do yourself a favor and get connected with lots and lots of the women who attend your A.A. meetings, and do it as soon as possible. Get their phone numbers, and get help finding a female A.A. sponsor, and make sure she knows of your situation. I'm pretty sure that she'll be glad to assist you in making certain that your "friend" understands that you're very thankful for all his kindness and help...but, you won't be needing him anymore. I know that many of the great ladies we have on this board will also be a lot of help to you here. Blessings in your new sobriety, Mike D.
Angel, run it by your sponsor. He suggested her partially because he knows you can't have him as a sponsor so he should ideally trust her and bow out. She needs to be able to do her job as your sponsor and that helps for her to know stuff like this...not in a mean gossipy way but just so you can get it solved and clear your focus.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
It sounds like the guy really cares for you and your sobriety...Maybe seeing you go through your last slip he doesn't want to see you have to do that again....I mean he did help you through the six days of hell. I don't know enough about the situation...But I do think it would be best for you to listen to what your sponsor suggests and follow up on that. I hope you don't mind me asking...You don't have to answer if you don't want to...But at 5 months sober....What step you are working on?
Now here's the thing... i am not overly happy with my sponsor either and I dont know anymore if i am being to critical,,i really dont. I have been told its way too early to be worrying about steps. i am in AA two years but really only participating properly the last year. i attempted the steps before and really felt it was too early..i started making amends with people already and I do enjoy doing the book with her but I find her to be so negative, but i feel the whole circle of them can be quite negative and nurse the addiction..it was a group of people I just began sitting with at the start. they have this approach to hand 'everything ' over to the higher power...if i say i am worried about things they are so not practical and say' God will help you ..with...this and that...If they phone or text it starts of with 'how are you coping ...how did you manage to get through the day.....If I say I am doing something nice...it can be negative responses like...'dont overdo it'....this seems to be a general feeling in my home group and its the way they stay sober.I feel l have to act sad and miserable all the time..yet, it says its a programme of living? I told my sponsor and this guy i got a job...total silence and sad faces again.....(they dont work because they drank everytime they took on pressure) I feel they do have good points but i need to pay the rent. Also there seems to be an unspoken agreement if someone doesn't turn up at a few meetings well they start enquiring about the person and asking me did i see them in my travels .It sounds very nice and supportive and i understand that but its happened to me and I felt I was explaining where I was etc etc.It was like being arrested all over again- well nearly happened..
i guess i am hurt by this person because my head has become clearer and I can see that he should know better.I want to speak to him about it but I know the best thing to do is just ignore him. however, i feel people in AA a long time have much more experience then me and I am thorn..
I was just going to add that alcoholics tend to like to be 'in control' of things and people ... even though I commend this guy for his help when you needed someone, I think perhaps he is a little over-protective of you ... and maybe he just wants you 'well' so bad, that he is going beyond what's needed here ... I think to give it some time is a good way to go AND stay in close contact with your sponsor ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The steps have to be done in order...You can't just start making amends...That path is very clearly laid out in the book.....It really does come down to...We get better by working the steps...Is it too early to get better? I'm sure your neighbor with six years has seen his fair share of people that didn't work the program...And they probably drank again. I only have two and half years and I've seen plenty of them....There are two kinds of people I've seen in my time in AA....There are people that are in it...And there are people that do it...The ones that do it tend to stay around longer. How's it working for you not doing it?
Aloha Angel good to read your post. I get memories from it myself. I use to fall back on the saying that "this is a suggested program of recovery" and so I listened to the suggestions and made my own choices. On my journey I learned a slogan..."Take what you like and leave the rest (for later)" and that is what I did. I went with what I could handle which at first wasn't much because I had no conception of the disease of alcoholism and didn't know how it related to me. It was my wife who over drank and used and I got crazy because of it and still didn't know or understand what was up and I needed the fellowship to help me learn and understand what the problem was and where the solutions would come from. I am alcoholic...I was born and raised in the disease...drinking alcohol and using drugs was natural and normal in my family of orgin and not one ever mentioned alcoholism and didn't disrespect another family member by calling them "drunk". I've learned alot in the years I've been in recovery which has benefited me mostly. I've done this program somewhat different than others have done it for themselves and still I'm doing it. What I did was listen and watch closely those in recovery I've had the good fortune of being around. I've watched what worked for them and I've watched how they worked it and in its simplest form what I've done is duplicate what they have done. I didn't let alot of the "personality" stuff get to me. Personalities are not principles and so I accept the principles and detach and often say no to the personalities. Might work for you...work it. keep coming back (((hugs)))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 15th of December 2013 10:58:54 PM
On my journey I learned a slogan..."Take what you like and leave the rest (for later)" and that is what I did.
No offense Jerry...Because I know you didn't come up with this line....But I think this is one of the worst lines that is passed around AA that I've heard. I would say this line applies to message boards and meetings....It sure doesn't apply to the 12 steps. They tell you real clearly...You hear it read in every meeting...
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
Here are some synonyms for Thoroughly.....
synonyms:
rigorously, in depth, exhaustively, minutely, closely, in detail, meticulously, scrupulously, assiduously, conscientiously, painstakingly, methodically, carefully, comprehensively, fully, from A to Z, from soup to nuts
You can do...Or not do this thing anyway you want....It doesn't really matter to me...You know what the first thing I had to do to get this thing was?....I had to get honest with myself that my way didn't work and I didn't know squat about solving my problem....I found someone that did...I listened and followed directions for the first time in my life....And I got better. Like millions of other people...That you can take it...Or leave it.
Thanks Gerry,,,Yes, I think the answer really is 'listen to the suggested advice' and make up your own mind.I do think the big book is very good but I will take what works for me from it.(which it has so far) I want the book to compliment my life. I don't have a problem with steps and how people do them but I find I struggle with people who 'use' the book when they can't say what they really mean in any given conversation. I suppose it is like joining any organisation/foundation it takes a while to find your feet. Watch how people live not listen...was another bit of advice I got. Like in any situation if there is that knot in your stomach when someone approaches/texts or whatever way of communication it's a sign that something isn't right. But yes, great reading people's opinions as some questions are not suitable for the meeting..x
I think it's another one of those paradoxes stepchild. Not everyone in meetings is sharing stuff right on the money. To that extent, I have heard "take what you like and leave the rest." Someone can be sharing about an element of their esh which is a bit off topic to me or unrelated so there's not much to take from it for me (though usually I try to find something behind whatever the share is).
These slogans come up for valid reasons even though they aren't in the book. Someone found them helpful in some context. Not that I'm sparking a debate to not follow the book because a person should. I think that particular slogan relates more to people's shares in meetings. That's just my take. I haven't heard anyone ever say "About that big book - take what you want and leave the rest." Or "take some steps and not the rest." That would be asinine I agree.
I don't know why our program encourages these slogans that are sometimes at odds with our literature but it does. I know I have used that particular slogan to help me but not taken it to mean half measures are okay. Because they aren't.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
In reference to the OP - I would look for a sponsor that has what you want and that would be someone with a job (or had had one and is retired) and a well balanced life who has also worked the steps thoroughly and implements them in her life. That seems important to you. I am fearful of you casting off AA thinking it's for people who don't work or have full lives because that is not the case. There was never a time in AA that I didn't have a job also and AA has helped me function better at my job. I think that employment is important and that's part of why there is a "to the employers section" in the book. The founders wanted us to get back to work. Others can chime in on this one....
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I think it's another one of those paradoxes stepchild. Not everyone in meetings is sharing stuff right on the money. To that extent, I have heard "take what you like and leave the rest."
If you read my post PC...I said this slogan would apply to message boards and meetings....Not the program as laid out in the book.
When I hear this...
Thanks Gerry,,,Yes, I think the answer really is 'listen to the suggested advice' and make up your own mind.I do think the big book is very good but I will take what works for me from it.
This is what pisses me off. Now....Her mind is made up for now....I wouldn't waste my time sponsoring anyone with that outlook...And I pity whoever does. I just voice my opinion PC....It's an example of how misinformation travels....And with this disease....Misinformation can be fatal.
I'm not looking for an argument here PC...Just trying to share with someone that may have just logged on for the first time that......That is BS. That's not how this program works.
I am glad people can read the book for themselves, and not need to have the text regurgitated to them on a forum.
If sobriety is important, they will take the book and read it like grabbing on to a life ring. If not, they may pick and choose what is easy, and do their own thing.
Going back out to drink may be in order for those that half heatedly work the program. They may become fully convinced to work the program by the book.
I cringe reading things on the Internet though. Anyone can post misinformation and misapplication as fact. Any newcomer should read and devour AA approved literature as I their life depended on it! It very well may.
The AA program is a full complete set. If you take some and leave out parts it is not the AA program.
That would be like wanting a new car an then saying you don't like engines so leave that our, I don't like tires so leave them off.
One would see that as rediculous quite easily. I would say that person is not ready to own a car.
If you are ready to get sober and start a new life, try the complete AA program. It will get you there.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
They say they looked for an easier softer way and they couldn't find one....The steps...Done thoroughly...Is the easier softer way. If they had found one....I imagine they would have written a book about that. It's pretty simple.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 16th of December 2013 09:46:15 AM
Our best thinking got us in AA. To decide we know better is somewhat silly!
Look at our lives! Look at the wreckage we created! Broken families, destroyed careers, hurt children. Yes. We are perfectly qualified to rewrite the Big Book.
:)
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Good Morning Angel....
Some great advice has been posted but I feel the need to add my two cents worth. Congratulations on 5 months--that's great!. I will have 7 months sobriety this month so we are pretty close in our soberland time. It sounds like this person showed a lot of compassion and empathy in doing all he did to help you through those "six days of hell" by phoning people, staying with you, taking you to appointments and feeding you through your detoxing. I would feel very grateful had someone been there for me to that extent. I think he still feels like it is his responsibility to make sure you stay sober. I am glad that you are better now and don't need someone to do those things for you like he did. What a great friend! Now it sounds like some AA members are worried you may go out and they are showing that concern by texting you and giving you BB quotes and well intentioned advice. I think I have that straight from what I read. I know some members who attend several meetings a day and it sounds like AA is their life. Whatever each person feels like what they have to do to maintain their own sobriety is okay. However, after five months, you may not feel you have to attend a meeting everyday and that has to be your choice and no one elses. Personally, I think it is nice of other members to call and text one another and that is what the program suggests--to call other members and see how they are doing. That helps them stay sober, too. If all of those people suddenly stopped texting or asking about me, I would probably think no one cared about me. (That's the way my mind works--but yours may work differently).
As far as giving you advice about getting a new job, that is your business and I cannot understand anyone sharing that you should not do that. That's the part I would "leave". I think when they make comments about "not doing too much"...possibly they are worried about you becoming too stressed out and wanting to drink. If you are doing alright and you receive texts from them checking up on you I would just let them know I am doing great and thank them for caring. There is another way to look at this angel...Perhaps the caller is not doing as good as you are on that particular day. People can have one or more years under their belt and have rough patches and just need to hear the voice of another AA'er to make them feel better. I would ask them how they are doing. I got numbers from people in the meetings in the beginning of my sobriety and sometimes (as much as I hate admitting this....) I wouldn't answer my phone when I received calls. I felt awful, depressed and I just plain didn't feel like talking to people I didn't really know. I was afraid I would get into a lot of personal stuff which I was going through and my mouth would become like a faucet I couldn't turn off and I would end up telling them more than I needed to and more than they really wanted to hear. (LOL--like I have probably done on this board :) However, by not answering my phone those times, I realized that I was hurting myself, as well as maybe hurting feelings of members who left messages asking me to call them back which I never did. That was very rude of me. I think back that it sure would be nice to call those people up and see how they are doing in the program. Some of them I don't see at meetings anymore and I worry about them. I could be helping them. But I don't have those messages anymore and don't know remember those names who called me so I have no way of contacting them.
I am not going to get into the steps other than to say I think that they are extremely important in maintaining sobriety throughout my life. I have heard too many people on this board, in the meetings and I read a lot on the internet and in books and have read about how others have stayed sober that way. I cannot add to the sponsor part other than to say it took me way too long to get one and it is very important that you feel comfortable with your sponsor as you need to be able to trust that person so you can open up to them.
Really angel, to be honest with you (and that is the only way I want to be from now...) there is not much in your posting that I see as being negative things. I felt unloved and uncared about for years. I isolated myself from people so much and it is great having people let me know how much they really do care. This board and the people on it, for one thing, has changed my life so much by showing that concern for me and you will soon find out what I mean if you haven't already by the many responses you have received from people who haven't even met you (for some reason I have tears running down my face as I type this--guess it just moves me so much). I know that early in the program I was very sensitive to people coming up to me, asking how I was doing, calling me, etc. I interpreted all of this as that they were pestering me, nosing around in my business, nagging me. All I wanted was to be left alone. I am not saying that is what you want--just speaking for myself.
I will make a couple of suggestions which may help you....and it is to start watching for newcomers in your meetings as well as on this board. You have five months of sobriety and there are a lot of people who are not sure if they can get through one day without drinking, or a week, etc., who would love to hear how you have stayed sober. I was so into myself for a good while and when I started trying to help people it gave me more confidence and I realized that this program isn't just about me, it is about helping others who are trying to stop drinking and don't know how. I also do service work--making coffee, helping to set up, cleaning up, making treats--which I love all of that and feel like I am contributing and helping others who have helped me so much. I am more motivated to stay sober and I think it shows, because a lot of the ones at the meetings feel I am doing alright. They still show concern, but they know I have a sponsor now, and see me doing service work and reaching out to newcomers and they don't seem to be as worried about me as much. Just a thought :)
I wish you the best with your new and improved life, angel. I hope to see future postings from you.
((((angel)))))
bty
I like Courage to Change as a personal supplement to my AA books. It is alanon, but so very on target with things I feel and go through.
Like many on here, I have a few dents in this can :)
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Thanks betterthenyesterday...sorry if i got your name wrong.Yes, i understand the concern from people.But the particular small group I was talking about make negative comments when I talk about good things that are happening and i find it deflating.I wasnt discussing the big book or sponsors for that other person above who has now made me doubt yet again certain people in AA and I will find another site to join..
Thanks for all the advice from all of you minus stepchild...you say 'no offence' on your post? you are extremely offensive and should be moved from this group.
angel....I hope before you do that you will send me a PM. Feel like you need to talk and I am here for you if you feel alright with that. Really would hate to see you leave here and there are always going to be those in the meetings who may say things that either are unkind or we perceive as unkind. I have quit AA over things like that in the past and have told myself I am not going to let anyone be the reason I give myself to quit again and start drinking. There are so many people on this board who you can learn so much from. (((((angel)))))
Thanks betterthenyesterday...sorry if i got your name wrong.Yes, i understand the concern from people.But the particular small group I was talking about make negative comments when I talk about good things that are happening and i find it deflating.I wasnt discussing the big book or sponsors for that other person above who has now made me doubt yet again certain people in AA and I will find another site to join..
Thanks for all the advice from all of you minus stepchild...you say 'no offence' on your post? you are extremely offensive and should be moved from this group.
I didn't like hearing the truth either....From your posts you've had problems with the neighbor that helped you....Your sponsor...And everyone around your sponsor. I listened and got honest....I was the problem.
And if they want to kick me off this board for carrying the message that's in the Big Book...That's fine with me...I'm not going to sit here and spoon feed you BS....This isn't a game we play...People die from this.
In this program typically - we give our experience, strength and hope. If it sounds like anything other than that, keep searching for ESH as a HP does want you to make the most loving choice for yourself. It helps me to remember that treating others with love and tolerance helps me stay in a reflection of an all loving HP which makes me most useful to Him. We are not saints - we seek progress not perfection. Being kind to others is how I remain kind to myself. When I'm crappy to people, I'm crappy. I am only truly hurting myself. They will make their own choices as to what they will do with the crap and it's they are responsible for it. I'm responsible for my stuff and I have to live with the consequences of my choices, my behaviors, my approach to things. When I have a problem with others - I have a problem. I learn to detach with love for myself, others and out of respect for this program and what a HP has in store for us here - the greater purpose of saving us from the bondage of self and bringing hope of that to others.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
People butt heads in bars all the time. That never kept people from drinking. I think if someone wants to be thin skinned and leave.... They are hurting themselves. Dealing with a little conflict is normal. It is part of life. I am glad people can share opinions and debate. If we can't find a reason for what we believe, why should we believe it.
I like Pinkchip and his comments. He is honest. We disagree at moments in time. But I feel we both want what is right and best. I learn from him. Sometimes he is right and I am wrong.
Patience is a two way street. It holds hands with understanding. Just my opinion though....
Glad you are here BTY. Pray and stay!
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
You know how many people leave AA because they don't like what they hear?....I'm guessing 96 out of 100. Or so I've heard. They give us two choices in that book...No middle of the road solution.
If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort.
BB pg 26
They either come back....When they are willing to make the effort....Or they don't.
This thread brings to mind one of our great theatrical classics.
If you would indulge me, think on he masterpiece, The Hangover...
Remember the part where the guy opens the trunk? And the naked chinaman leaps out and starts beating him with a tire iron....?
And the guy says, why is he so mean?
:)
That is all. Carry on.
I love you Stepchild. Even if you have red hair.
:)
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
and would never sponsor someone and pity the person that does. That does come across as a bit strong.
Maybe I should have said it like this...
Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. One of our Fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. He often says that if he had continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others, who have since recovered, of their chance.
If someone came to me and said...I'm going to listen to suggestions and make my own choice...Or I'm going to take what I want out of the book and leave the rest...That would be a waste of both of our time. Harsh?...Maybe...The truth...Yes. I hope you stick around BTY....If you disagree with what I share...Just leave it. I disagree with a lot of things I hear on this board.....And in meetings too. That's life in AA.
So it is settled... We officially have a red headed stepchild!
Glad you are here to add balance. It is diversity in the true sense.
I appreciate it. Honestly. A long time ago I would argue more. But now I do a bit more of letting people tend for themselves, bump their head and learn that way. That is how I have learned most of my lessons.
So if someone wants to argue of half stepping their way to full recovery, we can see how that works for you.
Just remember, not everything you lose may grow back...
Rock on \m/
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
I went to a step meeting today...I go to it every Monday at noon. About 20 of us there today. We read the step we are on from the Big Book....Not the 12 & 12...for the week or for 15 minutes...Obviously you can't read all of step one or twelve...And we share on it for 45 minutes. This week we were on step 4. I'd say three quaters of us have worked the steps and there were 5 or 6 working them now...A few on step 4. It really was a thing of beauty to be a part of. I was actually invited by the guy that runs it a few months ago....After he heard me share at a different meeting. I adjusted my work schedule to make sure I don't miss it. I told them I have a class I'm taking. I went up to him after todays meeting...To tell him what a great meeting it was...He responded it was like a clinic....And it was. I also mentioned it's too bad there aren't more like it in town....I go to meetings where I never even hear the word steps mentioned....That baffles me. I really like seeing this program work as the original members that put it on paper intended it to....There really is nothing quite like it. Maybe we'll start another one. Not everyone can be there at noon on Monday.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 16th of December 2013 06:10:42 PM
As a suggested program there is so much grace and mercy given by HP for every alcoholic to arrive at sobriety, serenity and sanity with the many tools we are given includng willingness and open mindedness. Sobriety "in spite of" is still sobriety and sobriety is not only in my own experiences, "just not drinking". Open mindedness gives me a wider doorway to walk thru side by side with my Higher Power. It also allows me the grace of hearing more, using more and gaining more from this program of recovery. Truely from my experience one of the greatest suggestions I have ever worked has been "If you keep and opne mind you will find help"...this has allowed me the grace to listen to many including that voice from within myself which guided my choices; the choices to take what I liked and to leave the rest for later or not at all. Objections are nothing but other thoughts and experiences and another tool tells me that "What others think or think about me is none of my business". God knows I met more than my share of talkers. God knows that what I needed in my journey were the walkers. I've got no room for fear in my recovery. Fear most often had a drink attached to it until I learned to practice the opposite of it. Problems with AA members are just an opportunity to practice solutions. "Acceptance is the (one) solution to all of my problems"...that from Dr. Paul who up to almost the last minute of his sober life was taking newcomers to meetings. That's a walker. I'll watch and listen to a walker always. Just for me. ((((hugs))))
Truely from my experience one of the greatest suggestions I have ever worked has been "If you keep and opne mind you will find help"...this has allowed me the grace to listen to many including that voice from within myself which guided my choices; the choices to take what I liked and to leave the rest for later or not at all.
Rarely have we seen a person fail that did it the way they wanted to....Sorry Jerry...I thank God for putting the Big Book in my hands and the people that took me through it...You can continue to carry the message you want to.......
The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree...
I totally disagree with it. To show other alcoholics PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED is the main purpose of this book. Half measures availed us nothing. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program...If I'd been given your advice when I came into AA....I probably wouldn't be walking at all.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Tuesday 17th of December 2013 04:09:10 AM
Early on, I needed a new way of thinking, a new way of looking at life. If one has an open mind to the teachings of the Big Book, as strange as they are to a fresh drunk, there is a chance to recover.
In a general way, in my experience, when I see the phrase in AA literature on keeping an open mind, it is to prepare me to hear an important bit of information. On first pass I may only be able to grasp 10% of it. But I am willing to learn and take what I can. And in time I am able to grasp more, and willingly do so. The teachable spirit in play. I feel like there was that grace carrying me while I was learning. And it was slow...
The open mind was to remind me that my thinking was wrong. I had been trying to quit. Trying to live and manage my life. So to keep an open mind to the teachings of the book, to the new way of living was what it was all about.
If you are a real alcoholic and want what we have..... That is the question. Not everyone in an AA meeting is a real alcoholic.
So please have an open mind to a new way of living and go after it rigorously! Here is a bit of a story showing an early pioneer in AA and the very short time frame to spring into action. Don't let the recovery industry way of thinking slow you down! Go ahead and jump in.
Page 291:6 - "The day before I (Earl T.) was due to go back to Chicago, a Wednesday and Dr. Bob's day off, he had me down to the office and we spent THREE OR FOUR HOURS formally going through the Six Step program (which later became AA's Twelve Step program) as it was at that time. The six steps were:
Complete deflation (which later became Step 1).
Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power (which later became Steps 2,3,6,7 & 11).
Moral inventory (which later became Steps 4 & 10).
Confession (which later became Step 5).
Restitution (which later became Steps 8 & 9).
Continued work with other alcoholics (which later became Step 12).
"Dr. Bob led me through ALL of these steps. At the moral inventory (Steps 4 & 5), he brought up some of my bad personality traits or character defects, such as selfishness, conceit, jealousy, carelessness, intolerance, ill-temper, sarcasm and resentments. We went over these at great length and then he finally asked me if I wanted these defects of character removed (Step 6). When I said yes, we both knelt at his desk and prayed, each of us asking to have these defects taken away (Step 7).
"This picture is still vivid. If I live to be a hundred, it will always stand out in my mind. It was very impressive and I wish that every A.A. could have the benefit of this type of sponsorship today. Dr. Bob ALWAYS emphasized the religious angle VERY STRONGLY, and I think it helped. I know it helped me. Dr. Bob then led me through the restitution step, in which I made a list of ALL of the persons I had harmed (Step 8), and worked out ways and means of slowly making restitution (Step 9)." (So again, most of the Steps being worked in one day.)
__________________
"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
welp,i may be a lil brutal, but I think iffen I had someone so negative about what I say im gonna do I might say something like,"maybe,after 6 years in recovery, you should stop goin to 3 meetings a day and start doin what the BB says and become an active member of society. ya cant hide in meetings all the time."
going to meetings and not drinking doesn't treat alcoholism.
ya don't have to be a doormat.
it might be time to narrow yer conversations down to " im doin good."
Good point you guys. The sponsor sounds more like a meetings addict than someone who has had a spiritual experience. I wondered too if, as Angel began to rejoin the mainstream of life, that she was outgrowing the sponsor, and he/she felt threatened or uncomfortable. Hence the put downs.
It might be time to find a sponsor and group that practice AA principles.
- well nearly happened..