Every time I come unto this board and see religious shit?
I cringe....Nothing personal...
I was a moderator on here for 18 years and it was NOT ALLOWED...
If I was a newcomer? and not into Bible Thumping?
I wouldn't be around here long..
To each their own....
Think of the Newcomer...
I haven't been to church in years, picked up a Bible for years, and just started praying to my "HP" (if that makes anyone else feel better by me using that reference instead of the "G" word) for the first time in years. I am flattered that anyone could consider me to be a "Bible Thumper" however, I am not qualified. Just my honest opinion. Am I "cringing" because you gave yours? No, because I have learned since being in AA that no one has the power to do that to me but me and I am learning it is important to have tolerance to whatever HP each member chooses to believe in or not to believe in one at all. Thank you so much for sharing.
So sorry my post made you "cringe" Philipld, I will refrain from posting anything spiritual in the future. Would you prefer I post my drunkalog? My time spent in jail? Or perhaps the nuthouse? What is acceptable posting to you? I guess I can't post about recovery because God (yes God) is a major part of that. And I really have no idea what a bible thumper is, is that someone who reads the bible? Oh, and the term "religious shit" makes me cringe,,,,,,,,,,, Peace, Mema (newbie)
I am well aware that this is a spiritual, not a religious program, but thanks for trying to "educate" me. At meetings in this area people are free to share their own interpretation of that, if they have no belief in anything at all they are free to share that as well, guess there's a bit of censorship going on at the meetings you attend.
Ohhhhh, you finicky Canucks!!!! Seriously, though, we are reminded that spirituality is important to be shared, but religious quotes from the bible itself isn't such a good idea unless they are part of the daily reading. Today, so many people have been hurt by religious institutions, or, like when I came here, were actively pagan, or atheist---and we have, over the years, seen newcomers sputter and leave due to their feelings about religion. So yeah, my Higher Power, or God as we understand him/her is best. If only you could have seen what happened here about ten years ago, holy cow ( I said that without disrespect to any Hindi here) with someone quoting the bible on a fairly regular basis. Well, a lot of people left because of it. Yes, Higher Power is safer. Phil wasn't being disrespectful, I think we all got a dose of PTSD from that experience and start needing therapy when in advance when someone quotes scriptures. It's just a case of being sensitive to such a diverse and eclectic group of believers and non believers. No harm, no foul. Or however that goes. Ok, Phil, don't be stirring up doodoo. I have also gotten ten years older since that incident and am much more old lady grouchy :o
I find myself defending my beliefs here and my right to voice them. That was not the intention of my post. When I saw that passage I took it to mean (for myself) If I stay focused on sobriety I will be free from the grips of this disease. That is why I posted it, not to try to sound like a "bible thumper" or to try to bring my religion here, I go elsewhere for that. I simply thought someone might get a little something out of it. I'm sorry it ruffled so many feathers.
Peace, Mema
Every time I come unto this board and see religious shit?
I cringe....Nothing personal...
I was a moderator on here for 18 years and it was NOT ALLOWED...
If I was a newcomer? and not into Bible Thumping?
I wouldn't be around here long..
To each their own....
Think of the Newcomer...
Religious shit? you were a moderator here for 18 years and capable of that comment? Amazing... Glad I missed your reign of terror.
Be quick to see where religious people are right. Your prejudice against the bible is your issue. If one shares their ESH and it comes from a text not authorized by AA, is that a problem for you too? Are you a offended by other literature as well?
Seems that being able to hear a phrase or two out of various inspirational writings would come under the umbrella of going to any lengths.
At my home group we do not have censorship of sharing our ESH As you mentioned. When I hear comments like yours above, I wonder how that would go in a face to face meeting where you are. It would not be well received in our group. Seems more like Internet bullying than any sort of recovery.
__________________
"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
The task for the chair person/moderator (and really all listeners) is to decipher the difference between religious vs. spiritual. It can be one, the other, or both. There are quotes like "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of harming another; you end up getting burned. I like that quote and it's often attributed to Buddha but when I say it, I'm not a Buddha thumper. One of my tasks as a newcomer was to resolve my anger at God and fix my skewed interpretation of religion as evil. I tell folks in the rehab I work at to start taking the message and searching for meaning in what people say and what is all around them in the world (including world religions) - Someone who is fundamentalist Christian might have the message I need for today just as someone covered in tattoos and piercings with Wiccan symbols and what not might. Trust me, if a person wants recovery enough, they won't be chased away by someone quoting bible stuff, hindu stuff...whatever. If that happens, they were gonna go anyhow. OR...they go to another site or place more aligned with their values. I am fully aware of AA meetings that have more "Christian" overtones, I just don't go to those ones. I wouldn't say they are totally busting traditions because it's their group conscious to operate that way. There are folks that would feel pretty uncomfortable going to most of my meetings which are almost all GLBT meetings. Whatever. I could raise my hand and start talking about being gay and my recovery and someone might shout "Homosexuality is an outside issue!" Yet there are Gay and Lesbian specialty groups.
My point is, I hope all newcomers find their truth while letting others have theirs and if people do share someone from the bible, koran, buddha or whatever - Tell us why it has spiritual meaning to you. That is our task in AA (and in life really). I benefit from seeing others' faith and belief systems in action when those beliefs are truly helping them recover and be a better person. I can tell the difference between that and someone who is "preaching."
Obviously this is one of the hot topics of debate in AA where there are many paradoxes and also many different opinions. Many of the quotes in the BB come from the bible...many things in the bible can also be found in other books (Torah, Koran)... It's really hard to talk spiritual without some overlap into things of a religious nature. Often trying to sound "purely spiritual" winds up as a form of being AA PC and that's not authentic. It's a sticky subject. Agree with all Wren had to say.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Ohhhhh, you finicky Canucks!!!! Seriously, though, we are reminded that spirituality is important to be shared, but religious quotes from the bible itself isn't such a good idea unless they are part of the daily reading.
What exactly is a "Canuck". I admit to being a bit too "finicky" at times. I guess I need to add "Canuck" to the long list of labels I have given myself over the years and pray to my HP to overcome this, too, should it be derogatory. It did make me smile, though, just reading it...."ca-nuck", and smiles are good. Hope it is not slang for another nasty word, because this board probably doesn't allow that kind of language on here. LOL.
As far as the "religious quotes from the Bible"....at the meetings I attend, we say "The Lord's Prayer", (found in Matthew and Luke). I read that in the beginning years of AA this prayer was used and the groups relied heavily on existing prayers and on the Bible and Oxford Group literature for inspiration and guidance. We also say "The 3rd Step Prayer" which is thought to come from The Oxford Group, a Christian movement which Bill W. and Dr. Bob belonged. The Serenity Prayer is also said in the meetings I attend and it is thought to be written by Dr. Reinhold Niebuhr, who served as Dean and Professor of Applied Christianity for years at the Union Theology Seminary. (What would we do without "Google"?)
It is good to hear from you, Wren. Haven't seen many postings by you and so glad you posted. (((((wren)))))
"Religious sh$@? you were a moderator here for 18 years and capable of that comment? Amazing... Glad I missed your reign of terror.".....
Sober Strummer, LOL!
"My point is, I hope all newcomers find their truth while letting others have theirs and if people do share someone from the bible, koran, buddha or whatever - Tell us why it has spiritual meaning to you. That is our task in AA (and in life really). I benefit from seeing others' faith and belief systems in action when those beliefs are truly helping them recover and be a better person. I can tell the difference between that and someone who is "preaching.""
pinkchip, this is just beautiful, and I couldn't have possibly worded it as beautifully as you did, but totally agree with you.
Wouldn't you know it?...They talk about this in the book.
Instead of regarding ourselves as intelligent agents, spearheads of God's ever advancing Creation, we agnostics and atheists chose to believe that our human intelligence was the last word, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and end of all. Rather vain of us, wasn't it? We, who have traveled this dubious path, beg you to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religion. We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions. People of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about. Actually, we used to have no reasonable conception whatever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves.
Instead, we looked at the human defects of these people, and sometimes used their shortcomings as a basis of wholesale condemnation. We talked of intolerance, while we were intolerant ourselves. We missed the reality and the beauty of the forest because we were diverted by the ugliness of some of its trees. We never gave the spiritual side of life a fair hearing.
In our personal stories you will find a wide variation in the way each teller approaches and conceives of the Power which is greater than himself. Whether we agree with a particular approach or conception seems to make little difference. Experience has taught us that these are matters about which, for our purpose, we need not be worried. They are questions for each individual to settle for himself.
BB pgs 49 - 50
It really does make little difference.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Wednesday 4th of December 2013 10:33:26 AM
Sorry, for posting "three in a row" but my curiosity got the better than yesterday's of me, and I just looked up "Canuck" which means Canadian. That is definitely not a bad word and I am definitely not a Canadian (unless my mom slept with one and forgot to tell me). Actually I wouldn't mind being a Canadian, because I hear they have great skin.
(again...too much time on my hands)
I am intrigued by other belief systems aside of Judeo Christian. I read far eastern philosophy books. As a nerd with a 4.0 GPA in grad school Master of Science, the idea of how we handle concepts we don't understand is interesting. Many times in history, people attributed diety to matters if science they didn't understand. If you read the chapter to the agnostic, what an awesome way the founders shared that idea.
While not a scientific text or study in psychology, the Big Book has great insights!
And don't even get started on what the big book says and does not say on dating in your first year sober!
__________________
"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
I guess things evolve personally, vary from person to person. It wasn't a reign of terror at all. We all had a lot of fun together. Some of us are gone now. Some of us are dead. My point was, we were/are cautious and sensitive to the newcomer. I was so walled into myself in the beginning, I didn't say a word at meetings for the first year other than "Hi I'm Chris". I had to find my own rhythm and a group I could unwind in. Then things started to go forward. This person we had the issue with was righteously thumping, messaging people with stuff, it was awful. Here I was on a strong left hand path getting messages that Jesus Saves. I think the broken blood vessel is still on my nose somewhere. Now, I am a devout Celtic Catholic. Reading the Quran with a teacher. It's all good. Diversity. I have to remember, also, that newcomers, Christian or pagan, are a bit defensive sometimes, and I allow for that without taking it personally. If I internalize and personalize everything someone says that I don't agree with, my sobriety is going to suck. And that isn't hurting the other person. That is hurting me. So what quality of sobriety are we all looking for? Jump back and scream " discrimination" every time someone voices their feelings? So we are talking "negative reaction" (aka, ankle biter) to a biblical post. C'mon. Let it go. Or hang on, build up that anger or resentment and ride that wave until you're exhausted and realize it really wasn't worth it. Was it?
Phil was an awesome mod or he wouldn't have been here so long. We all dance to a different drummer. Phil, he owns the drum and beats it himself, huh? Phil, you gots great skin?
I have no character flaws. In fact, I am flawless in all areas. I got sober, got skinny, my body firmed up and everything returned to its natural place, I lost the wrinkles and grey hair, I became holy and wise, excessively tolerant and unflappable, and threw away my glasses because my vision improved. Phil, did I leave anything out?
Doesn't it just rock? hahahaha! Of course, I threw away all the mirrors in the house, so I'm going by assumption, LOL. I may have traded addictions. Drugs and alcohol for fantasy. Ya think?
Laughter is good. Thanks, Wren, and I like your sense of humor.
I tried to avoid mirrors when I was drinking as I really was aging myself and found it so depressing to see myself in that shape. Now I can look at myself and think that I look so much healthier. Lines are there, tired eyes have yet to clear up totally, and when I find myself thinking "I'm getting old", I try and stop myself and think that I am grateful to be alive and I need to be happy that I can see more days and maybe years in store for me and getting older can be a blessing instead of a curse for me because I am not drinking myself to an early grave.
I am 63. I am in better shape now than when I was 29. (which is where my brain stopped). The years have gotten better. Oh sure, I get a locked knee once in awhile, or I notice if I hiked too much the day before. But I am telling you, these are the best years of my life. Even when I was still fresh with the bloom of youth, ( don't you love that saying? Bloom. It holds so many possibilities), I was so focused on my next drink, my next boyfriend, my next everything, that I totally missed "now". "One day at a time" works on so many levels of our lives. I am sober, one more day. I can see today. I can smell and taste today. I am alive for sunrises, sunsets and walking in the woods and wandering the beach. I am fresh with the bloom of living. Just for today.
Wow you and John both surprised me with your ages. Both of you look a lot younger than your ages.
Your post is beautiful, just like you and thank you for sharing!
I have no character flaws. In fact, I am flawless in all areas. I got sober, got skinny, my body firmed up and everything returned to its natural place, I lost the wrinkles and grey hair, I became holy and wise, excessively tolerant and unflappable, and threw away my glasses because my vision improved. Phil, did I leave anything out?
Seeing as she hasn't posted in well over a year, hasn't been that active on the board since the time you dug up this dead topic, and her account is deleted... ...I sincerely doubt she'll be your "friend".
-- Edited by Jakamo on Thursday 17th of March 2016 06:09:18 PM
Oh my! I had no idea her account was deleted! I loved Wren's posts! She was so very insightful and really helped me alot.
Very sad news, indeed. I wish she would come back.
We put up with a lot of bullshit as mods and the owner ultimately didn't value our opinions and he shitted all over me basically and never made amends.
I'm glad to see you back peecee. Thank you for your service as moderator when you were doing it. Greatly appreciated.
You know...I am sure that this has nothing to do with you and your situation but it made me think of something, and that is, that I have had quite a few doo doo dollops land on me from one after the other. I was a hot mess and I stopped expecting amends a while back, because in my case I am over it and over them. I am sure they don't even realize they did anything to me because I believe now that there are just some folks in the world who are not happy unless they try to make someone else miserable and they will lie and betray and do whatever they can think of to accomplish their evil plan. And for awhile, I truly was one of the most miserable people so they succeeded!
Oh well.....No loves lost and I don't waste my time and my life anymore worrying about them. And I am really glad for all of what happened to me because I have learned so much about not only myself, but others, and am not nearly as nice or as gullible as I used to be. Someone wants to put me down and hurt me? Goodbye. You're history to me..... is my motto now and I don't look back, so amends would do little good as far as I'm concerned. But I will let them kiss my ass as I am walking away and out of their life. I am not a whipping pony anymore to anyone.
(And I sure could never be a moderator for this board and admire anyone like you and others that have and can :)
-- Edited by leavetherest on Friday 18th of March 2016 05:07:46 PM
Yes, it would seem Wren has abandoned this forum..., Bummer.
As an Admin, myself, I do know there are ways to bring old dead accounts back to life. :)
If you pay close attention to spelling and grammar in the forums you might begin to think that posts from different aliases are really from the same person and it could be Wren was someone's alter-ego for a while.
Just a thought.
Mine sure was--I have had four different user names. And I am sure my grammer (or lack of good grammer :) gave me away to one particular board member on here who, after I got this latest ID name, posted every user name I have had on here. He made me remember at least one I had forgotten.
Personally, I am just glad when people come back. I owe an amends to one who left a while back right after my fingers tripped over my tongue and am hoping he will come back so I can make a proper apology. I have hopefully retrained my mind and tongue more by now and will not feel the need to lash out hurtful things. Pride and ego (or maybe I should say false pride and over inflated ego...). So Zoomtopz if you are out there, I am sorry and please come back. Miss you on this board.
Mine sure was--I have had four different user names. And I am sure my grammer (or lack of good grammer :) gave me away to one particular board member on here who, after I got this latest ID name, posted every user name I have had on here. He made me remember at least one I had forgotten. Personally, I am just glad when people come back. I owe an amends to one who left a while back right after my fingers tripped over my tongue and am hoping he will come back so I can make a proper apology. I have hopefully retrained my mind and tongue more by now and will not feel the need to lash out hurtful things. Pride and ego (or maybe I should say false pride and over inflated ego...). So Zoomtopz if you are out there, I am sorry and please come back. Miss you on this board.
