How does or should a group handle the bad behavior directly outside the room. My home group leased a new room in a shopping center last year. The next door neighbor is a karate school for children. The landlord has received numerous complaints of smoking, loitering, and bad behavior/language in front of the building and in the parking lot. We had a designated smoking area in the back of the building and most people used it. Smoking has been banned on the property now, but the loitering and language I has only been addressed by "Please be good neighbors". There are only a couple of people who are a problem but now the entire group is threatened with loss of the lease and no meeting place. The problem makers don't care and as long as we are A.A., they say we cannot not stop them from coming. These couple of people can possibly close down a very large fellowship. The group spent thousands of dollars that was saved for the move and spent every bit of it for a very fine room and renovations to make the place comfortable and welcoming. If the lease is lost the group no longer has a meeting place and has no money to fund a new one. The group has at least 5 meetings 7 days a week. I am only 20 mos. sober and this group is my home group and was a godsend for me to find. I have been to business meetings and the representatives seem to have no idea what to do. Can I please get some direction on this? The more "official A.A.? or direct experience" the better, but plausible ideas would also be appreciated.
God getting sober is so supportive of good direction...Steve do a group conscious on the behavior and if you have to the people and take a vote. You can ban "anyone" who is disruptive and threatening to the success of your "business" and having said that I have both...been asked to leave a AA meeting (several times) and Al-Anon meetings also....and I have helped "other" out of the doors of a meeting for behavior unbecoming group guidelines. No problem dialing 911 to get help...the police love sober members of AA, NA, ACOA, Al-Anon and other 12step programs...if you want call the shift supervisor and dialogue. We are not about "bad" behavior...just the opposite. My ESH.
I would think the chair person of each meeting could announce that smoking and foul language is not allowed on the premises or in the parking lot. It wouldn't hurt to mention that a karate school for kids is next door and just what you stated here that the lease is threatened if these guidelines are not met. Is the "loitering" you mentioned is people meeting outside the building before and after the meeting? If so, I don't know how that can be avoided if the space is locked up and they cannot get in. Are the members allowed to come into the space when coffee is being prepared and after clean up? If not, I don't know how members can be expected not to be there before and after meetings. If you are talking about them hanging out for an hour(s) or so before and meetings and being disruptive, that is another story, and perhaps an additional announcement can be made pertaining to that, but I am not sure how you can word that but perhaps someone else with more experience than me can if they like this idea. It would be a real shame for you to lose the space, especially when funds have been used to obtain it. I wish you the best of luck and hope you post in the future to let us know how things are going, Steve.
"I would think the chair person of each meeting could announce that smoking and foul language is not allowed on the premises or in the parking lot. It wouldn't hurt to mention that a karate school for kids is next door and just what you stated here that the lease is threatened if these guidelines are not met." This has all been reiterated on numerous occasions and the general rules on smoking and day to day behavior are briefed at the beginning of every meeting. The room is open before and after every meeting for as long as necessary and these couple of people refuse outright to follow. Their arguments are basically that they are alcoholics and their behavior needs to be accepted by the group especially and by the neighbors. Some of these people have years of sobriety behind them (+10) and consider themselves experts on A.A. and any effort to control them is against A.A. principals. The traditions and principals that A.A. profess have been used to try to get these people to be more neighborly to no avail.
Wow. That is unreal to me and over my head as being new in AA myself don't know what else you can do, especially since they have been sober so long. It is a shame that being just that, they do not show more respect than they do. Hopefully, you'll get someone with more info than me to help. Also.....
"Their arguments are basically that they are alcoholics and their behavior needs to be accepted by the group especially and by the neighbors."
(Double wow! I wonder if I should have told the officer and judge that I was alcoholic and my behavior when I was arrested should be accepted?????)
" Their arguments are basically that they are alcoholics and their behavior needs to be accepted by the group especially and by the neighbors."
nope, it does NOT have to be accepted. and the neighbors DONT have to accept it. contact central office and ask what AA's stand on their claim is.
" Some of these people have years of sobriety behind them (+10) and consider themselves experts on A.A."
nope they don't have years of sobriety behind them. they have years of dry time behind them
these people have absolutely no clue what the traditions OR principles are about.
OUR common welfare comes 1st.
im sure a loving God as we understand Him would say,"yeah, go ahead and be an arrogant egomaniac."
each group is autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole and their actions affect AA as a whole.
AA has a service board directly responsible to those they serve...contact the appropriate service board
its principles before personalities and NOT personalities before principles.
some of the principles:
oh hell, you can find em, but theres a crapload of em Im readin that some childish brats aint practicing.
so, solution:
check yer motives before taking any action
talk to the landlord. maybe have him present at a GC meeting with these people.
contact central office in new York and ask what AA's stand on the problem is and if they have a solution.
have a group conscience meeting
there was a meeting in a neighboring town that had a GC about allowing a child molester( fresh out of prison) attend meeting. it was agreed he should be allowed to attend. then he raped a woman that was attending said meeting. GC felt like shit after that happened and changed their opinion.
I sure hope a few jackwagons don't screw up what ya have, but it definitely wont destroy the fellowship.
GSO is just a collection point of group experiences and has no opinion on group issues. One suggestion would be to have your trusted servants meet with the landlord to discuss your problem. Perhaps posting signs outside of no loitering and if the malcontents continue their selfish behavior place a call to the police had prosecute for trespassing.
Our common welfare comes first. If we have no place to meet, we cannot help those still suffering.
Thanks for the replies. I'll take these thoughts to some closed mouth friends and hear what they have to say. The place has been voted nonsmoking so I do have to find a new homegroup, but I'd still be disappointed if they lose their room, they are a great bunch of people. If they can straighten out the real problems maybe they will allow smoking again in the smoke break area and I can go back to where my sober journey began. Thanks again.
P.S.
Can I request some (guidance, past experience) from GSO that is in writing so I can present the ideas at a business meeting and show they aren't coming from a know nothing newbie in a business meeting.
The GSO won't give any advice/opinions on group issues. These things need to be worked out within the group. The way I've always looked at it is, people vote with their feet. The bad meetings die out, and new one's are started.
Hi Steve, sure sounds like your Group has a difficult problem to try and solve. I would be inclined to believe that GSO has had to offer suggestions on this kind of dilemma many times before. I doubt that it's very uncommon. I'd e-mail them as soon as possible and ask for suggestions on the correct way of handling this. But wait, there's more: Perhaps you could take this to a Higher Power. Have you brought this problem to God? We can't forget about Him, can we? You just never know how He might solve it. Good luck, I sure hope you guys don't lose your meeting place. Blessings to your Group, Mike D.
-- Edited by Mike D on Saturday 19th of October 2013 04:57:05 PM
I had to pray about this. My resentment towards the nonsmokers was a no go for me and rather fight what is, I accepted the way things are and am now looking for a smoking friendly home group. I think I found one but I have only been looking 3 days. I'll have to see how things go. This is my solution, but I am still concerned about my first group.
For God's sake, don't let 'smoking' keep you from going to meetings ... It's obvious that the 'smokers' have, for sure, become the 'minority' in recent years ... ... ... I actually did the very same thing you are doing, a few years back ... in fact, I stopped going to meetings a time or two cause they weren't smoker friendly ... and I started drinking again ... things just weren't to my like'n ... when I learned that that was one of MY problems, not theirs, I began to see that I needed to change my 'thinking' on this issue ...
Okay, yes, I still smoke ... but I have changed my desires to where I am more desirous to stay sober than to fill my lungs with smoke ... I learned that I need a 'smoke break' from time to time ... I mean I need a 'break' from smoking ... and going to a meeting, any meeting, affords me that opportunity ... after getting into this habit, I concentrate on the meeting content and don't even think about a smoke until after I get into the car to go home ... then I smoke like a stove pipe for the next few minutes ... I have learned that that is a small sacrifice to the benefits of a good meeting ...
Please don't deny yourself the healing spirit of a non-smoking group just for the sake of a few puffs, ... that in the end is another benefit to your health and well being ...
This is shared with love from one smoker to another ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Sunday 20th of October 2013 07:33:28 AM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I sure do understand why you'd be concerned about the future of your home group. Sounds like you're doing everything you reasonably can do. And, you're taking care of your own sobriety and peace of mind surrounding this. Hope everything works out for your group. Take care....Mike D.
There are a couple of folks who take those vapor cigarettes to meetings. One of the meetings I go to doesn't allow smoking anywhere on the premises-- not even in the road in front of the building! Extreme to me, but it's not my building and I don't make the rules, just try to abide by them. I started not to go back because after these meetings, I really want to smoke. Then I realized that I can get through that period of time without smoking. I watched a great movie not too long ago about a man who had been sober for years. He attended AA meetings regularly and that was back in the day when smoking was permitted it seems almost everywhere. (I remember going to the grocery store with my mom when I was a kid and her and others smoking in the store while she was shopping!) Anyway, in the movie scenes with the AA meetings, a large majority of people were smoking. There was so much smoke in the room and it looked pretty strange to me. There is one meeting in this area that allows smoking during the meeting. I have never been there because, as awful as it sounds for me saying this being a smoker myself, I don't want to gag on other smoker's smoke. Mine is enough for me to gag on.
Hope everything gets worked out for the meeting place.
Ha! BTY, your post reminds me of the time back when they did have smoking AA groups ... I made it a point to go to this one group and the smoke got so thick in a 1/2 hour, it made my eyes burn ... and you could hardly see from one end of the table to the other by the end of the meeting, (poor ventilation) ... LOL ... but now I learned that it won't kill me to go without smoking for an hour or two, LOL ... the result is, I'm still sober ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
