Revolving door

Drunkenbitter · Member

Revolving door

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

Hi Drunkenbitter, and welcome to the boards.

Has your sponsor taken you through the Big Book and the steps?

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to MIP. So glad you're here friend. Xxx

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

Drunebitter - seems like you're trying to solve all your life's problems in one go.

So, how to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Remember a relapse ends with a drink and starts with a think.

So do you want to get and stay sober? or do you want to control your drinking. The only control I have is to not pick up the first drink.

You're at Step 0 - the one that isn't listed. So work on step 0 - because it leads to step 1. Do you want to get and stay sober or do you want to control and enjoy your drinking. Once you answer that you can work on step 1 - write down what happened on your last three drunks and be honest about what you wanted to happen - are they the same?

If you're like me then that first drink, the one right under the cork, is the one that get's you drunk. Because it sets up an uncontrollable NEED to drink again and again and again.

The disease of alcoholism, according to the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, is progressive (it get's worse, never better) and alchoholics have a 3 fold problem.
1. they obsess over alcohol - plan for it, wait for it, want it emotionally and mentally
2. They process it differently and a small amount sets of a physical, uncontrollable craving and
3. are laking in any form of trust, faith and belief in a higher power that will help. Sure we all have a higher power and for years mine was in a bottle.

As far as God goes - instead of looking for the religious God, the usual concept of God, I relied on teh power, experience and support of a Group Of Drunks who were in recovery to different levels and stage and met up in teh rooms of alcoholics anonymous. They helped me to learn about Good Orderly Direction - y'see, the way you wrote GOD reminded me I could use it for Group of Drunks and Good Orderly Direction. That has been enough for me to clear my mind and come to believe that a power greater than I could lead me to sanity (Sanity = Health)

So you ask how to break this cycle. Well in order to stop drinking - you gotta stop drinking - let your body heal, let your mind settle and take it a day at a time, an hour at a time, a minute at a time - and pick up the phone before you pick up the drink.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Drunkenbitter wrote:
I am in the revolving door of sobriety and relapse. I am in danger of losing my family, my job, everything. I nearly died from withdrawal in February of 2011. I've tried all of the drugs to combat my alcoholism. The only one that worked, Antibuse, nearly killed me faster than the alcohol. I am agnostic and have major issues with the idea of GOD. My grandparents were all alcoholic and my dad and stepdad are too. My dad has been a dry drunk for over thirty years and one of my biggest fears is that I will end up like him. I'd rather die than end up like him. I have been in AA for about a year. Vi have a great sponsor but I still relapse every 30 to 90 days. And when I relapse it is bad. Any advice on how to break this cycle?

Greetings, DnB. Alcoholism is a tough thing to arrest. I've met several people with a story of multiple relapses.

For some reason or another, there are tougher paths for some of us, and I guess you are treading one of them. But you are not being asked to be successful. In AA you are being asked to try to be.

Keep trying. Don't lose your desire to get and stay sober.

What is giving you problems in AA?

Drunkenbitter · Member

That is my problem. I want to fix everything and fix it fast. I used to be an athlete and when I get a bug up my butt I go to the gym and work out so hard that I hurt myself. Then I go into depression because I can't do things like I used to. Then the bottle takes over. I have a great wife and two beautiful little girls. Why can't I stop???

mikef · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to MIP and blessings of this day

I am sure that anyone who has spent time in AA remembers that old part in the book about "Seldom have we seen a person fail........" Then comes that pesky little statement about "except those who are INCAPABLE of being HONEST WITH THEMSELVES" . If those strickened with the illness can't admit his/her shortcomings and HONESTLY set out to seek their own sobriety, no one else can do it for them. I know of those who have said 'SEE IM POWERLESS AND THIS IS WHAT I DO. .and they continued to do it..... I found for myself ,after 25 years or more out on the tiles that it was only the 'EMOTIONAL ACCEPTANCE OF UTTER DEFEAT" that helped me move toward recovery a day at a time.. WE are powerless when the driving force in our lives is beyond our control. Writings have stated" our STEPS lead to an awakening of a spiritual nature, it is evidenced by change in our lives and the changes make us better able to carry our message of recovery to those still suffering. The message is meaningless though unless we live it, our actions give more meaning than our words and literature ever could. Ours is not to give advice only suggest what has worked for us and the PROGRAM (pg 59 3rd edition BB)suggested as a program of recovery .Application of the STEPS in all areas of our lives is the Solution........You have the only requirement necessary to be a member of the fellowship, the desire to stop, so I can only suggest ,,work the 1st STEP 100% and continue to have the desire. When you are finally done and move into the Solution, worked with a sponsor you can find that life in recovery, one better than you have ever known based on my own evidence. . ,,Your Higher Power need only be loving and caring and greater than you or your addiction. .A process of coming to believe, spiritually not dogmatic unless that is your choice...Don't let being Agnostic steer you away from this program of recovery. Many have and do succeed daily with their own beliefs in a Higher Power for them. .Stay close with people working the program ,your sponsor and as we get to the exact nature of what's going on with us, an inside job, WE take whatever Steps necessary to find that daily recovery.. Thanks for the help today, ever reminding me of how my own Denial and reluctance to acceptance kept me on the DOWNBOUND TRAIN to oblivion for almost half of my life..Hope to hear more from you ,keep coming back. In support and prayer...... smile

Drunkenbitter · Member

I know that I need to do ACoA too. I haven't done that yet. Another guy says I should do EMDR therapy. So confused and angry and pissed. Is my anger just another excuse?

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

I see that EMDR can be used for PTSD but can it address alcoholism?

As far as secular programs of treatment, you might look at Rational Recovery and/or SMART Recovery. There is plenty of info online about those two.

Drunkenbitter · Member

I'm in A very bad and scary place in my head. I just want a piece of peace! Stop hurting myself. Stop hurting my girls. My life is great when I stay sober. Why isn't that enough? My daughter read her first word the other day. She said " mama, that says MILK!" Shouldn't that experience be enough to keep me sane? Away from alcohol? Sorry folks. I'm venting. I'm a drunk and I'm not happy about it. I wanted kids and a family because I thought that they would take away my misery. They didn't. What is my next step? V

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

It wasn't enough for me. I thought I deserved better too. I was arrogant as hell. Motherhood didn't cure my alcoholism. It felt so terrible to be a drunk mom that I thought for sure I was one of those incapable ones. I thought I wasn't capable of loving. I felt like I loved my kids... but I COULDN'T act like it. I couldn't promise them or my husband I would stay sober and keep that promise. He said "if you loved me you would". I thought he was right. Maybe I was just a cold heartless nothing. I had no way of dealing with those feelings other than to drink.

Why do YOU think I could not keep my promise to him? I suspect that maybe you - like me back then - feel this is a moral issue - and don't believe the fact that this is a disease. Not deep down. You tell me if I'm wrong okay? Why do you think you keep drinking when you don't want to?

So remember - these answers are for you - not me. No one will be grading your answers. I already know the answer for me.

And hey - feel free to introduce yourself when you feel up to it. We would love to know your story, when your last drink was, and where you're at in the step work etc. Everyone is just here to help.

Really glad you're here : )

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

We can't tell you what to do, we can only tell you what we did.

P25 "If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there in no middle of the road solution. We were in a position were life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situational best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help.. This we did because we honestly wanted to and were willing to make the effort."

Unfortunately I am unable to provide you with the desire or the willingness, nor can I offer a more palatable alternative. When it all boils down, these were the only alternatives left for me.

God bless,
MikeH

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hi DnB, ... ... ... Welcome to MIP ... glad you found us and we're happy to have you ...

Your drinking habits or relapse habits mirror mine from years ago ... When I was 43, I went to my 1st rehab, and got a dose of AA there in the hospital ... didn't like it ... and a couple years later I repeated the process in a different facility ... and a couple years later repeat the cycle again ... I continued this vicious cycle for 13 more years and then about died ... wife said she'd had enough and this was my last chance ... she was so disgusted with me she said I could have the house and truck and she'd just divorce me and go ... she said she could not stand to see me slowly kill myself right in front of her ...

I think by the providence of God, I got hooked up with a great therapist (who is now my sponsor ... long story) ... all this only a few years ago ...

You want to break the cycle ??? ... Here's how ... 1st go to 90 meetings in 90 days, just don't drink today ... 2nd read the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book ... 3rd find a person to sponsor you, he will guide through the steps that helped him to get and stay sober ... Are you willing to go to any length to stay sober ??? ... It takes making a decision followed by action ... such I have just laid out for you ... I could not get and stay sober by myself, it took others who had succeeded to guide me through the steps of the AA program ...

I do pray you stick around long enough to enjoy the benefits of this way of life ...

God Bless,
Pappy

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Drunkenbitter wrote:
I know that I need to do ACoA too. I haven't done that yet. Another guy says I should do EMDR therapy. So confused and angry and pissed. Is my anger just another excuse?

It's a journey, my friend, and every journey starts at step 1. It's the only step you have to get 100%. The rest you'll learn along the way.

Take my journey for example; I've experienced enough adversity over the years to make even the strongest among us cry. Up to that point, I spent most of my days gazing into a pit of despair, hoping for a different outcome this time around. I guess all that worrying lead me nowhere. After 20+ years of continuous sobriety I can honestly say it hasn't gotten any easier except for the part about not drinking.

Our stories have very similar endings , especially when we consider our past. I was never convinced enough of my own alcoholism until I uncovered myself from beneath it. The heap of broken remains was just a causality in my own personal battlefield. It was like being in denial while suffering the fate only alcoholics are accustomed too. So from that standpoint I can relate. I had to suffer more torture than anyone should have to endure, and that was only the beginning.

Today has a completely different vibe, thanks in part to my A.A. connections. I have no more regrets about drinking mainly because I don't have those urges any more, but then again it's just part of a daily reprieve I call sober grace. I couldn't do this alone, though. I have a great network of friends who I call my sober connections. They're the lifeblood of my sobriety without a doubt. So I need to learn from them as well. Remember: It's still a learning process and for some of us that message resonates rather quickly while for others it requires a more delicate touch, that's all. So don't get too caught up in the logistics anymore, okay. Just take it one day at a time as do we. Believe me; it's worth all the effort.

We'll leave the light on for you.

-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 7th of September 2013 10:11:21 PM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Someday another newcomer will need to hear your story..what it was like, what you found out and what it became then. Try adjusting a word and the thought that goes with it. Try instead of "Why can't I stop"..."Why won't I stop". My sponsor taught me that if there wasn't any value in it for me I would never do it and so I started to look what my drinking meant to me and listing those "values" and placing them in front of my sponsor and others. Then I listened with an open mind...quiet the other voice and kill all objections to the lessons until the lessons were over. I didn't accept that I was alcoholic even when I wasn't drinking. My subcounscious was the problem. My counscious level ranted, screamed and cried and my subconscious would take me back out. My drinking compulsion and justifications were lodged there.

Dr. Harry Tiebout who was (still is) a huge help to alcoholics trying to understand recovery spoke of the difference between submission and surrender and gave me a great part of the solution. "It is when the alcoholic accepts on the subcounscious level that he is truely powerless that he has surrendered. On the counscious level he accepts that he has a problem which one day will be solved and he can again control his drinking. This is submission.

You're not alone...if we can you can and we are here to support you also. Keep coming back. Kid's love without condition...we gotta learn from them. smile

Drunkenbitter · Member

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. I am starting over today. I am meeting with my sponsor and we are going to completely start over from step zero. I want to get it right this time. I was really hoping to go to my first ACoA meeting today but I forgot I had to work. I need to get pumped up for the upcoming few days. I will be out of town at a conference for three days with no "supervision" and ample opportunity to drink. I'm trying to find a meeting list for the area. It is kind of in the boonies. Strange place for a statewide conference.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello Drunk-n-bitter and welcome to the board. I too had a difficult time getting/staying sober. Here's a few things to consider. Youth, Health, Wealth, and Brains are serious deterrents to sobriety. Usually the alcoholic will need some substantial loses to break down his denial. Many lose all (wife, family, job, home, freedom, sanity, health...life). If you are an alcoholic and you continue to drink, this is your future. I lost a good job and my marriage. This was a blessing really as I was a construction project manager (stressful job) and the marriage was a huge distraction for my sobriety. Of course I thought "I must be OK, great career, beautiful wife, wonder son, live in a nice home, lots of toys, what could possibly be wrong? So I have a "few too many" on occassion. It's all in the Big Book, have you read it?

Once I was on my own it was easy to focus on myself, attend meetings daily for 3.5 years. And yes, after getting 6 months sober, I attended ACOA, Coda and it was very helpful towards my recovery. D&B you will have to work extra hard to get sober and stay in your marriage. Have you thought of seeing a therapist that specializes in alcoholic family issues? Check out Terri Gorski's book "Staying sober". It was very helpful for me to understand post acute withdrawal, which was preventing me from staying sober for more than a month or two at a time. You got to really want this. Anything that you put infront of your sobriety you will lose, when you continue to drink. Good luck.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 7th of September 2013 06:02:25 PM

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

You'll be fine as long as you don't drink today ... and for sure, check in with us here as often as you can ... we'll keep the light 'on' for ya ...

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

Drunkenbitter, hope things go ok at your conference. These sorts of 'tests' sometimes seem to strike when we are struggling! (That was a lot of S words). Stick close to the program - visit us on here frequently, bring your BB, and when things get a bit hairy with others drinking or whatever take a time out to call other AA-ers. We're all in your corner.

2granddaughters · Senior Member

Drunkenbitter wrote:
I am agnostic and have major issues with the idea of GOD.

I highly advise that you address that position ASAP.

I came into AA as an agnostic too. I'm finding that it is a self-defeating attitude for me to take and I'm working on changing it. (Step2)

AA recovery is very clearly and simply described in HOW IT WORKS.

After nearly 25 yrs in AA I'm truly beginning to embrace the "3 Pertinent Ideas" of HOW IT WORKS.

All the best.

Bob R

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Take your laptop and when you can, as you can we are just a couple of clicks away. smile

Mike D · MIP Old Timer

Hello Drunkandbitter, welcome...you're in the right place! If you're in that "revolving-door" syndrome of trying to stay sober and relapsing frequently, you're in good company here. All of us have had a difficult time STAYING sober at first. It's pretty common. Sounds like you're a very normal alcoholic. You're no different from anyone else in A.A. If you're asking for advice or suggestions about what to do to change this, I can't (or won't) tell you what to do. However, I WILL tell you what I did to change it. Like most everyone else I know in A.A., I was diagnosed as a CHRONIC alcoholic before I got sober. Which means I was a totally impossibly hopeless drunk and was destined to die very young. There is a reason for everything and here is one of the biggest reasons why any long term sobriety was so impossible for me, even though I really wanted to stay sober: There were things I was willing to change, but there were certain things I was NOT willing to change. There were things I was willing to do, but there were also certain things I was NOT willing to do. I wanted a solution, but there were certain things that I didn't want my solution to be. I wanted my disease to be a medical problem, not a spiritual malady. I wanted doctors and scientific medicine to be my answer. I did NOT want God (or anything spiritual) to be my answer. In other words, I wanted sobriety on MY terms. But, I was staying drunk on MY terms. That was over 25 years ago. So, what happened that changed that?? Well...it was pure DESPERATION. When I fully realized that I was actually going to die of my disease, I became so desperate that I became willing to CHANGE MY MIND. I surrendered to Reality. I became willing to change everything I needed to change in order to save my life. Along with that, I became willing to DO anything I needed to do in order to save my life. I finally realized that I could NEVER have sobriety on MY OWN TERMS. Desperation forced me to accept my disease on its own terms. And, desperation forced me to accept the solution on its own terms. I saw that, as long as I was in control I would soon die. So, I gave up! I gave up control of everything. Because all of my own ideas were keeping me drunk, I gave up ALL of my own ideas about EVERYTHING.....including God. In short, desperation forced me to consider the possibility that I might be WRONG. As I say, I cannot tell you what to do, or what to think. The only thing I can tell you is that, if what you're doing and thinking is keeping you drunk and bitter, then you could change what you're doing and change your thinking. That's my experience. I've found that sobriety only becomes possible when we accept ALL possibilities. Thanks for letting me share it with you. Peace and blessings to you, Mike D.

chuckles · Newbie

I know the feeling. I am on sober day 1 after a two year relapse. Taking it one minute at a time right now, but the works of wisdom here help immensely until I can get to a regular meeting. I am too ashamed to call my sober sisters for help but I know that is what I need to do. I am new to this posting stuff, so I hope I am doing ok. Thanks

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

Not that my opinion matters, but I think you're doing more than OK. You've made a decision to stay sober today. For people like us, that means everything.

I hope you get to a meeting. Come back and tell us how it went, OK?

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Welcome chuckles - glad you're here.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hi Chuckles, ... Welcome to MIP ... glad you found us ... I agree with Dave ... EVERYTHING starts by 'making a decision' ... ... ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

Welcome, Chuckles!

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Welcome Chuckles and Drunkenbitter! I believe at any point you can have a spiritual awakening that will change your entire course of living. Stick around and let things unfold. Drunkenbitter - if you just keep coming back, you will likely get this...besides, the sobriety stretches are learning periods (not that relapse is ideal). Keep your head up and keep trying.

Drunkenbitter · Member

We are so swamped at this conference that I wouldn't even have time to drink if I wanted to. Unfortunately, that has also meant no meetings. 8:00 a.m. to 8:30 p.m. daily with breaks for meals only. But it is a good way to keep my mind off of the obsession! Before I stopped drinking I never realized how obsessive I actually am over alcohol. Keeping things frantic seems to help to keep me sober.

thanks all and welcome Chuckles.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date DnB ... ... ... Hope you have your Big Book with you to peruse a little before calling it a day ... OR ...

Here's a copy if you're interested : http://www.whytehouse.com/big_book_search/index.asp

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

Glad to hear the conference went well, D! Hitting up some meetings this week?