I use the line "you are where you're suppose to be" ALL. THE. TIME. It's my self talk - it's the talk I say out loud. It's my faith.
My dear friend who is brilliant, and one I've known since my freshman year in college - is now a doctor and is terribly ripped apart these days with PTSD, and nearly stopped speaking to me when I offered those words to her.
"Where was he when I was being molested by a gay woman and then laying under her as she shit in my mouth?"
Oh. MY. GOD.
Yes. Where was he then?
She simply said "How is it that, THAT, is where I was supposed to be?".
I was stumped. I was new to recovery myself, and just riding on the pink clouds with my little slogans and happy little life that turned all peaches and cream really fast.
I could not answer that question - and it blew me out of the water and busted me up. I was devastated.
It took time and patience and persistent questioning - to get to the other side, and where I am today. It took doing the steps with a sponsor and discovering not
WHO my Higher power is, but WHAT. The power to restore me to sanity, comes from my conscious contact in step 11 with a HP that I have a relationship with again... and yes... I do trust that I am where I am supposed to be... hell or high water!
Recently - it was discovered that my precious baby girl - 4 yrs old - has been getting molested by our neighbor boy who is 14.
How was she where she was supposed to be I wondered? How was I? I never hurt that much in my life. Nope that's not true - once before, but this time it was real full blown head on emotions because thanks to recovery, I'm now capable of feeling ALL the stages of grief, and walked straight into them willingly. They washed over me and through me and still do to this day only 5ish weeks later. But things are getting so good. Why?
The answers for ME came from the recovery group. 2 answers.
The 1st is that we aren't put here and controlled like robots. We have free choice, and there are bad people. Messed up people beyond help, and true evil in the world. I can't take evil personally. It's not God treating me badly - it's people who have free will like you. I imagine that my all loving HP is crying for them, and hoping that they will turn toward a reflection of him/her/it.
2nd came in the form of a question. "Have you ever met anyone really truly amazing, who hasn't been through something bad that has enabled them to seek a spiritual solution?"
I have hope today - that this experience (my daughters) will some day benefit her in that she will be a deeper, more soul searching, questioning, spiritual seeker - LIKE YOU. We will know each other more, and speak the same language of the broken heart. Her experience will deepen her joy for good times, and soften her heart to those who still suffer. People like you, and me, and her - who have been through hell and back, have the gift of knowing how precious the good times are. If my life was nothing but jewels and ponies and candy - how would I know to appreciate it? I KNOW today - when I've got it good. For Gosh sakes, my friends son has been living on tube feeding and will die soon of a heart condition at 6 yrs old! I've had 35 years here. Tube free I might ad! I have a computer, and a friend out there in the world on it (you - and others here) an amazing program for LIFE, and the gratitude list can go on and on and on and on.
We aren't fed a straight animal cracker diet. My friend has eaten shit. She knows how bad it can be, and her appreciation for life and the sweet things (literally) in it, can bring her SO MUCH MORE joy than what the average person could ever know. I tear up of joy these days. I know JOY when I see someone recovering from themselves and old old sickness that has run through generations. I know JOY when I see my daughter happy, and healthy, and recovering in the most lovely graceful way today.
To me - ALL the crap that I've been through was worth it. I have a heart that is deep - and wide - and full today. I keep it that way by coming here, by going to meetings, by working with others, by helping where I can, by being the best person I know how to be. I know HOW to be a better person, because I have done a thorough round of the 12 steps, and continue to live it. I know the qualities my all loving HP has - and I try to live in that reflection. When I trust in it and let go - it works.
You see it with your own eyes working for others around you. You may not like the taste of an aspirin, but if you were dying of a heart attack - you'd chew 5 of them and swallow because you want to live.
Your soul searching here is no different. You may not like the spiritual solution offered here, but sometimes we just don't get to like it - we have to do what we have to do to really LIVE.
I came in a non-believer - and the step work led me to a spiritual awakening just as it was prescribed to do. I wanted to live. I think you do to... so start at step one, and keep taking those steps forward until the miracle happens. xxxx
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
My ex dated a guy that I thought was just weird. He was molesting her kids, not our daughter, she was too old... Ughh.
So sorry to hear about your daughter. I will pray for your family.
One thing about this board is the incredible capacity for people to heal. Maybe the other side of the coin is indeed as you mentioned. Pain and suffering are a cup we can't pass. We all drink and suffer, then learn to encourage the next one.
So much of these conversations sound like a Tool song. Some dark side, a minor dirge in the key of pain. And we come out the other side. Rosie on here encourages me. I am inspired by your heart as well.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
I just posted this on Angell's thread and thought it appropriate for this thread too ... maybe not, but here goes:
I do believe in God and I hold Him as my higher power ... AND I believe as the 'Good Book' says, "that all things work for the good, for all that believe in Him" ... does that mean that everything in my life will be 'peaches 'n cream' ??? ... of course not ... there are lessons I need to learn and mistkes are a part of that process ... does this mean that God wills others to die for His own purpose, NO ... it means that God allows mankind to have the freedom to live life as man desires to ... and for mankind to kill others is a part of that freedom ... ... ... It doesn't make it right ... and as to the 'why' ... maybe someday we'll learn the answer to that, but now, we just simply don't 'understand' ... could God keep this evil from going on, of course, but perhaps He needed some more angels to keep Him company or perhaps He has job openings that need filling ... ... ...
The only time and the only place you will find 'evil', is when there is an 'absence of God' ... God allowed His own Son to be sacrificed for the good of all mankind ... so how can I judge Him and hold Him responsible for bad things when they happen ??? ... ... ... I think the lack of God in our cultures around the world is the root cause of all the world's problems ... I know the lack of God in my life led me to become the drunken asshole everyone hated ... When I invited God back into my life, things changed, I changed, and life is now wonderful ... and in my life, I believe it's as God intended ... He did not force me to have faith ... that grew in me as His miracles for me continued in my sobriety ... ... ...
Love you guys and God Bless,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Sometimes the window is filthy and it is challenging to see through the filth and grime and it takes all of my efforts to perceive what is on the other side.
Namaste.
Sometimes it is merely dusty but with concentration and focus I can see through.
Namaste.
Sometimes the imperfections are unnoticeable because the light shining through is so brilliant.
I've never quite "got" that saying. It's long bow to draw that even the most evil situation that a person could find themselves in, is where they are meant to be - in terms of God's will.
Einstein, I believe, once said "there is no such thing as darkness, only the absence of light". How can we say that the dark experience of your friend was supposed to happen? I don't believe we can.
But what can happen to the victims of evil, perhaps, is they can be brought into the light. They can learn to forgive and to heal, they can learn how their experiences can help others. And once in a while, the evildoer sees the light also, asks forgiveness and shows contrition, and then in some rare cases (speaking as a sinner) the miracle of reconciliation can occur.
Pappy's favourite book The Shack is a wonderful illustration of this principle.
Tasha, I'm not surprised you were stuck for words. Sometimes there is just nothing we can say.
Hey Tasha,
First, prayers to you and your family to ease this time of confusion and pain. I am sure that time and your strong example as a compassionate mother will allow your daughter to put this in perspective during her long life. I really am mixed on the notion of predetermination etc. Could it be that this action was going to happen whether you were a sober, emotionally equipped mother, as the program and your HP have brought you to, or a drunken, selfish wretch who would have made this about you rather than her? As bad as things are, your HP has given you the skills and maturity to work this out and allow your daughter the understanding she will need to cope and press on--I believe--in a perfectly normal existence. I believe her chances would have been deeply different if you were not who you are today.
Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I love it too Angell, ... This actually reminds me of the Art Linkletter show called "Kids Say the Darndest Things" ... I loved that show, but it's going to show my age I guess cause that was many years ago ... LOL ... (I know Tom will remember it, Ha! ...)
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Wednesday 28th of August 2013 06:34:59 PM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
She is doing really well. Partly because she is who she is. Partly because we have reached out for professional help, and MOSTLY I believe, because my husband and I are in this program.
It will be her story to tell some day - so I'm trying to just share my experience around it and not speak for her, or use her to make me look saintly - but I'm proud of the work we're doing - I'm proud of her and everything she's done and gone through with all the questioning and panels of peoples she had to speak in front of to determine it true or false for the authorities. Her real spirit swept people off their feet. Her HP is with her - she told me once about it... "the spinning guy who loves me".
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I've never quite "got" that saying. It's long bow to draw that even the most evil situation that a person could find themselves in, is where they are meant to be - in terms of God's will.
Einstein, I believe, once said "there is no such thing as darkness, only the absence of light". How can we say that the dark experience of your friend was supposed to happen? I don't believe we can.
But what can happen to the victims of evil, perhaps, is they can be brought into the light. They can learn to forgive and to heal, they can learn how their experiences can help others. And once in a while, the evildoer sees the light also, asks forgiveness and shows contrition, and then in some rare cases (speaking as a sinner) the miracle of reconciliation can occur.
Pappy's favourite book The Shack is a wonderful illustration of this principle.
Tasha, I'm not surprised you were stuck for words. Sometimes there is just nothing we can say.
God bless, MikeH.
Well said.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Her HP is with her - she told me once about it... "the spinning guy who loves me".
I love listening to children on this subject in particular. One of my favorite authors told a story about a couple that he was friends with. They had a four year old child and had just given birth to another. The four year old took a great interest in being alone with the new baby and the parents, fearing the possibility that she might be jealous and wish harm upon her new sibling were a bit concerned over what they perceived as being overzealousness in a four year old. They finally allowed her to be alone with their new baby but watched and listened from a crack in the door. The four year old approached the baby and said, "Please brother, tell me about God; I'm starting to forget."
"Please brother, tell me about God; I'm starting to forget."
Angell, you are fast becoming my spirit guide. Bravo on that story! Very appropriate to this situation that Tasha's family is going through. Prayers again Tasha.
Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I marvel and always have at those who have been deeply hurt even eventually to the point of death and still continue in love. Evil always brings fear and then the absence of fear is love. That lesson directly from my HP and with a gentle nudge from Mother Teresa..."Love anyway". This post is marvelous for me. Mahalo Nui (((((hugs)))))
I chose peace Tipsy - not hate. Doesn't mean I don't feel anger and want to chop the guys head off at times. That doesn't do any good for me, so I have to move on from it and make a choice to focus on whatever good there is/could be... while allowing the nasty parts of the world not to pin me down. I have been deeply removed from my feelings for a long time. Now I allow them, and then chose a new thought process that allows me to have peace. Not saying you have to chose to be like me... it's just how I work my program. I'm no good to my daughter if I'm running around stressed out, pissed off, throwing bricks through my neighbors house like I want to. She needs peace and love, and I want to be that for her... and for me.... and for you too Tips.
-- Edited by justadrunk on Tuesday 3rd of September 2013 12:44:48 PM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
You can keep your HP who feels that molestation, rape, suffering or any other horrible tragedy was some sort of life lesson teaching tool...personally I choose to hold mine to a higher standard than that.
I understand your rejection of the idea; though I disagree. How do you hold your higher power to a particular standard?
Tipsy, you have a lot of compassion for the suffering of others; I applaud that. I have a different understanding of the concept of higher power than most as I am an atheist. My higher power can't be easily personified and so, there is no 'will' that my higher power can apply. Nor can I fire my higher power because again, my higher power is a manifestation of truth <-- bad explanation but the best I've got this morning. Truth can not be fired or changed to suit me. I am not saying that I am right; just right for me.
I do not think it was God's will for my daughter to be molested. Not at all. Also - we didn't just do nothing. We went straight from the hospital to the police to the social workers. Everyone is on this kid and he is going to have a lot of consequences, and help too. I have also taken it upon myself to notify my neighbors in case they should be so foolish to hire him as a babysitter as I know he'll be out looking for another job!!!! They have a very outstanding reputation in this area as being a wonderful church going family. I didn't break Layla's anonymity, but I did let people know that I know 100% fact he's a child molester.
I have also done work on this for me - and we've done work on this as a family. It's not just over cuz we're exactly where we're supposed to be.... we are taking action EVERY DAY to heal from this and do the right thing as best we know how.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I chose peace Tipsy - not hate. Doesn't mean I don't feel anger and want to chop the guys head off at times. That doesn't do any good for me, so I have to move on from it and make a choice to focus on whatever good there is/could be... while allowing the nasty parts of the world not to pin me down. I have been deeply removed from my feelings for a long time. Now I allow them, and then chose a new thought process that allows me to have peace. Not saying you have to chose to be like me... it's just how I work my program. I'm no good to my daughter if I'm running around stressed out, pissed off, throwing bricks through my neighbors house like I want to. She needs peace and love, and I want to be that for her... and for me.... and for you too Tips.
I spoke to Dave Peltzer a few years ago and he said that he had to forgive or it would destroy his son. That resentment and hate would just make him bitter and a bitter man doesn't make a good father.
Okay, ... I just came in to check up on things here and 'Wow' ... things got heated up a bit ... this always amazes me ...
I recently posted my view on 'things are just as they're supposed to be' statement ... let's see if I can say it in a different way ... 1st, I somewhat agree with Tip ... The God of my understanding does not force, never has, the love and devotion of His children (meaning all mankind) ... God has allowed us, as humans, the freedom of thought and the freedom to act the way we see fit ... God does not demand we love Him nor obey Him, else how could there be 'love' of Him on our part ... (love that is forced cannot be true love) ...
But in allowing everyone there own freedom, He 'allows' the bad stuff to happen because mankind has two influences, 'good' and 'evil' ... 'evil' has no problem with hurting others, even innocent children ... 'evil' has no problem with others that bomb and shoot people, killing innocent people at will ... in fact the first 'children' on earth were a good example of evil ... one brother killed the other brother ... so God is not to blame for what mankind does to mankind ... He's there to steer good things to certain people that believe and trust in Him ... yes, if our faith is true, He often rewards us by saving our butts when we need Him most ... AND He's there to guide us if we honestly seek Him ...
God does not cause evil ... Evil only exist where there is an 'absence' of God ... I have been on both sides of the proverbial 'fence' ... Since I invited God into my heart, I have been granted the understanding and knowledge of what God's presence is about ... it's about learning to been confident, that 'everything's going to be okay' if I stick close to Him ... things may happen that I don't like, but that may be someone elses evil invading my space ... so I learned to trust in God to make things right ... I should leave Him to be the judge and not try to take power away from Him to make others feel His wrath, that will come soon enough ...
If you're human, there will be days of suffering ... not because God caused it, but because we are not Him ... and when we learn faith in Him, then our burden is lighter ... when does God step in and relieve the pain for those that believe in Him? ... I have not yet been granted that knowledge, probably because it's far beyond my ability to comprehend it ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Wow, you HAVE learned some things Tip ... I love your last couple of posts here ... I think the program is rubbing off on you ... I do believe there is Hope after all ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Tipsy, you're rubbing off on me, too.. Good for you on holding your ground and expressing what it's really like, I mean REALLY like for us alkies out here.
I am going to repeat this previous post...there just maybe, maybe, HOPE after all....
