I am a Catholic, but admittedly a bad one. It is like my ADD dreads going and sitting for an hour plus. I am a true believer in Christ, but I am dreading complying with my own religion. I love to keep things simple, but the organization makes it complex. I am humble before my HP, and have lots of faith, but the guilt of not confessing or simply complying with all the rules really makes me balk. Sigh, I am going to take a shower now and go get in line. Am I wrong thinking here? How can I see the remarkable work of my HP (Jesus) on a daily basis and not want to go to church?
Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Hey Tom, I was also raised in the RCC, complete with 8 years in Catholic school. After getting sober I made several attempts to attend church regularly and each time I just didn't feel connected to my HP like I do daily. Mass seems like such a distraction to me spiritually. I did however do my 5th step, complete with absolution, with an RCC Priest that had 18 years in the fellowship. That felt thorough lol.
Hey Tom,In support and prayer for you. I too was once part of RCC,an altar boy for all of grade school (8YRS)(drinking wine in sacristy and eating hosts before mass guilty as could be)Was part of the 1st Catholic High School in Poughkeepsie New York where I lived, 2 ears before I had it)Sisters of Charity,Dominicans,Friars,Brothers,legalistic rules and no relationship with my Higher Power. A stone alkie from 12 years on, ingrained with Catechism and not the Word. After drifting away for years from 'RELIGION" I was Born Again in '86 ,2 years after my recovery began, for me,I found I have only one direct connection with my HP according to my personal faith beliefs and confess daily through my only mediator. I do believe Any 2 gathered in God's name is church, my mom 88 goes to church on TV(still a RC) and though WE(my wife and I) go to church weekly year after year, we go to worship and not be entertained though it does sometimes take more concentration than others.We love going and thats why we do..WE all have to find our only spiritual journey whether it is religion(mine is not) spiritual,or for many their own concept.I will pray as you renew your committment to do what you do to serve the GOD of your understanding and doing what you feel is correct,thats all we can do.I always remember my 2nd sponsor(WE share a spiritual connection)would point me to words written that stated "It is easy float back out the door on a cloud of religious zeal and forget WE suffer from an incurable disease(illness)..Guided by that Power greater than WE, instilling what ever personal faith beliefs WE may have and the spiritual solutions to our illness through the application of the STEPS (daily)in all areas of our lives WE can work toward being of that maximum service to God and others!!!!Be blessed,be free in God's grace and mercy.....Peace my brother.........
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Tom thanks for your post. I was born into a Hindu home and for years I wrestled with faith in God. When I came into AA and started to work the steps, I found my faith in the bible and the AA book. I became a reborn Christian after my sobriety was in place and ultimately my entire family got saved and baptised. Today our faith comes from hearing the word of God through scripture and AAA meetings and home church, exercised by works through AAA. My son is involved in helping people through AACA and working with addicts and alcoholics. Thanks, brothers.
I am a Catholic, but admittedly a bad one. It is like my ADD dreads going and sitting for an hour plus. I am a true believer in Christ, but I am dreading complying with my own religion. I love to keep things simple, but the organization makes it complex. I am humble before my HP, and have lots of faith, but the guilt of not confessing or simply complying with all the rules really makes me balk. Sigh, I am going to take a shower now and go get in line. Am I wrong thinking here? How can I see the remarkable work of my HP (Jesus) on a daily basis and not want to go to church?
Tom
Good point Tom ... ... ... I've said it before and I'll say it again ... Religion is from man ... Jesus taught 'spirituality' and a bond with God, not religion ... all His actions were 'spiritual' in nature ... His time here on earth was used to teach us how to make and keep that connection with God ...
The Good Book says we are not to put much stock in those who don robes and fancy clothing that put on the facade of being 'Spiritually' superior to us ... as if they themselves have the power to absolve our sins ... as if they themselves have some 'direct' connection to God that isn't afforded to us ... these so-called men of God are so puffed up on their own ego trips and speak with such emotionally fancy words that many people will follow them no matter what they say ... we are admonished to read and study the Good Book for ourselves so as to not be misled by these so-called spiritual giants ...
I sometimes feel like I should go back to the church of my up-bringing too ... but when I have, I find that these people have little conception of what a true spiritual connection to God is all about ... some how, I feel and see more of God at work within the rooms of AA than I have anywhere else ... few people have been so humbled as the alcoholic ... besides, the Good Book says to call no man your father except He who is in Heaven, meaning God the Father ... and yet many religions do just that, with their local pastor, or priest, or whatever ...
Don't ask me to start listing all the references in the Good Book I made reference to ... they are there if we chose to find them ... if you want specifics, I'll try to assist, but ultimately it is a personal responsibility ... Please, I'm not saying one should not go to church, just that we should not take everything the church leaders say for the 'truth' ... that will only be found in the Good Book itself ...
Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
When the energy and spirituality in a particular AA meeting dries up or get stale for me, I find another meeting. It's much harder to do that with church. I started going to my partner's church a couple years ago and I really liked it and listened to the sermons and tried to make sense of the parables. Now it is getting to be a distraction and I have to work at it cuz I notice myself looking at the walls, the stained glass windows, people's outfits, their bad hairdos, and then I am saying "is this over yet!!" It's an episcopalian church so it has all those bells and whistles. They read the nicene creed and I am yawning and thinking how silly it is that they are all reciting this "creed" at once in unison. I forget that I can recite "How it works" from memory just like they do with a good portion of their "creeds" and prayers and that we are WORSE about saying things in unison and just thinking everyone knows them. I can't just "change churches" that easy but it doesn't connect with me the way AA, AA literature, and AA meetings do. Those never get old and if they do get stale or boring or if I "need" something different, I can find it in a different meeting. My partner...well....this is where he gets his spirituality tank filled. The Church is his AA like that so I go to support him and, at worst, I use the time to meditate and then to connect to the congretation who are all good people. If I dissed it or stopped going altogether that would be kinda lame to do to my partner. It's not a bad experience, it's still mostly good, but it's not AA and not the same spiritual remedy.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 14th of April 2013 08:36:35 AM
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Great share PC, ... ... ... in this share, I see you sharing yourself with your partner ... to not go to church with him because you don't 'feel' like it would be selfish in my book ... it is in the giving of ourselves that we can see the real us ... it is the one real way that we that we can become part of the 'Spirit' that leads us ... it makes us 'whole' again ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Disclaimer--This post deals with my personal HP which happens to be Christ. For those of you on a different journey, please do not read into this that AA demands Christianity, nor does it favor Christianity.
Hey everyone. Wow. Thanks. I guess the practical side of me realizes I am already "Saved". I saved my self by turning to my HP long ago which means that really Christ saved me. After I turned my self over to Him with a vow of simplicity in thought, my world changed. There was a moment 20 years ago where I had been sober for 5 years already, that I ended up at an evangelical event where I was urged to allow myself to be "Born Again" and I was very glad to participate, but as great as act of proclaiming publicly that I had asked Christ into my life was, it was not an electrifying event because I already had Christ in my life in a powerful way as my HP. In other words, I really do not want to participate in religion at all other than my daily reading, daily reflection, and my participation in AA. It seems like I am very fulfilled spiritually, and that getting involved with organized religion actually takes away from my spirituality because of the drama and pettiness, but I still want to be attached to a group that generally has high ideas and a positive message--so why not just stay Catholic, the religion of my birth and my family? I honestly feel I would feel the same no matter which church I joined. Maybe I should start a "church". It would be set up with a coffee and soda bar. It would last 30 minutes max. The chairs would be comfortable and all rows of chairs would have a low coffee table in front of them where you could put your coffee and put your feet up if you want. You could close your eyes and let the sermon wash over you. You would walk in, there would only be a sermon, no other events, and you could check out an "outline"of the sermon online so you could think about the subject before you showed up. At 30 minutes, a bell went off. That was it. You had a break where there was no guilt if you left. You got the checkmark for "keeping holy the sabbath day". After the break, those who wanted to stay and chat informally with the preacher could, and those inclined could plan car washes and bake sales etc . I would call it "The Church of Simplicity" By the way, the priest I talked to for confession yesterday was the very model of simplicity. He was a young man from Africa, and his understanding of our human condition was touching. I am glad the Catholic Church has individuals like this because it gives me a ray of sunshine in my relationship with the church. Am I whacked out for wanting this? Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
This is the perfect example of practicing what's right for you and being 'true' to yourself ... and THAT may not be what me or someone else needs or wants, but is a great job of following your own convictions ... this is the very reason we should leave the choice of religion to the individual if they chose to be a part of something in addition to AA ... there should never be any conflict one way or another ... of course 'religion plays a 'zero' part in AA's recovery program and that's the way it should remain, in my honest opinion ...
I love your church service idea, I would come and check it out for sure ... and if the 'Spirit' moved me, I'd come back ... No fancy clothes though ... that's a real 'turn-off' for me because it doesn't represent real 'humility' before God, as I see it ... and please don't ask my take on 'holy water' ... LOL
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Someone in one of my meetings likes to say "Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been there." I like that.
