Poll: Is Alcoholism a Sin or a Disease?

Tracey C · Senior Member

Poll: Is Alcoholism a Sin or a Disease?

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Is Alcoholism a Sin or a Disease?

Choices

1. Alcoholism is a disease with no aspect of sin.

2. Alcoholism is definitely a sin. Calling it a disease is a modern copout.

3. Alcoholism is an addiction. It starts out as a sin but ends up being a strong force of habit that takes away free will.

4. I really don't know. It probably varies with each person.

5. Other.

Zoomtopz · MIP Old Timer

for me it would be 5 .

As I was taught when I got to a detox unit -

If it was the alcohol , Everybody that drank alcohol , would be Alcoholic .

So , certain people , who once they ingest alcohol , seem not be able to stop .

When a "normal drinker" would . Then as "we" call it "the ism's" are Not in the bottle .

The 'ism's' are in the person . That is why , I believe , if after we treat the initial symptom-

the drinking - we treat the person - I put down my last drink , then I treat Rick -ALL of Me

warts & all .

My thought on sin - self inflicted nonsense . When I started treating Rick , I became a Recovered

catholic & stopped guilt tripping myself . And yes I was able to forgive the nuns & priests who used

to flog an innocent 5y/old because I did not understand about "daddio , laddio & spook" oh & th

virgin mother. I hope this is of help as I understand it .

mandm · Senior Member

based on your choices alcohol is a desise (1) , only because I do not belive in sin or god. I do belive in a higher power then myself.

leeu · MIP Old Timer

After all the research detailing the origins and progression of addictive disease, it constantly amazes me that people still question whether it is a "sin". How terribly sad that we as a society refuse to recognize that the world is round, not flat, and revolves around the sun, not the other way around. We spend more energy trying to dispute that alcoholism/addiction are brain disorders than we do trying to provide affordable, available support for those trying to survive it, and to reduce the damage from the zillions of dollars it costs us. Essentially (do your own homework) it's genetics, brain systems, environment, and properties of the drug. All are combined in varying ratios among individuals...but alcoholism/addiction cannot occur outside the disordered brain.

No person is the same as another--that is why not everyone who drinks is alcoholic and not every alcoholic has to drink a lot to be one.

A. A. works for many of us because it offers a way by which...against all odds...we can stop flooding our brains with alcohol, which is where alcoholism lives, not in our free-will or rational thoughts or chosen behaviors. The behavior is the result, not the cause. Our steps were grown from Christian roots and designed to resolve the fall-out of the sin-nature, whether we commonly view it that way today or not. But sin as a concept does not exist outside of religion. So A.A. dropped the underpinnings of religion and allowed that even atheists can acknowledge moral and ethical wrongs (which may or may not parallel or equate with sins). What A.A. does is accept that alcoholism is a disease of mind/body/spirit and offer a "program of recovery" based on that reality.

My answer is #5....none of the above!

-- Edited by leeu on Saturday 6th of April 2013 12:53:34 PM

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Tanin wrote:
Is Alcoholism a Sin or a Disease?

Choices
1. Alcoholism is a disease with no aspect of sin.
2. Alcoholism is definitely a sin. Calling it a disease is a modern copout.
3. Alcoholism is an addiction. It starts out as a sin but ends up being a strong force of habit that takes away free will.
4. I really don't know. It probably varies with each person.
5. Other.

My choice would be #3 ... ... ... Alcohol in and of itself is not sinful ... Alcoholism is ... the 'Good Book' tells us to not 'drink to excess' or to 'not be given to strong drink' ... ... ...

Our choice becomes whether or not we call upon the Lord (or your 'higher power') for strength to not go to excess here, or to not drink at all ... ... ... in AA, I rediscovered a God of my understanding and have found that it is true that 'all things are possible through God, who strengthens me' ... ... ... this is right out of the Good Book ... my youth made me so arrogant that I always felt I 'knew' what was this and that ... now in my older age, I've found that I didn't know sh!t back then ...

Excessive alcohol use is definitely a sin ... ... ... Thank God there is a route to forgiveness and redemption, for if there weren't, we'd all be doomed ... ... ...

God Bless,

Pappy

mikef · MIP Old Timer

SECULAR VIEW Hi Tanin...thanks for brain stimulation at a wee early hour:)

Sin

Rejects the idea of a sin nature. Believes that whatever I want to do is ok, as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else. (But is often shortsighted in deciding what may hurt someone else!) Tendency to rationalize that all behavior that I wish to do is acceptable.

CHRISTIAN VIEW

Christian hamartiology describes sin as an act of offence against God by despising his Person and his commandments, and by injuring others.^[1] It is an evil human act, which violates the rational nature of man as well as God's nature and his eternal law

I was at one time a Roman Catholic and was told Alcoholism was definitely a sin. I am now a Christian(of which is described as one who is lead by the spirit of God is a child of God)Like Pappy,my spiritual readings tell me overindulgence is 'sin' AREA..Medical science and secular views define Alcoholism as a disease and I have also read many articles on Alcoholism and Addiction is a choice(PH.D Jeffrey A, Schaler)and others addictions we approve of are called virtues,addictions we disapprove are called vices??Addiction is not same as a habit although one can be addicted to a habit.And the choice factors in wherein people make choices,they just make the "wrong choices" E.G 'Cigarettes are addictive and therfore teens who start smoking wil be addicted for life?But millions have "chose" to quit without any help chose to make the correct choice the others didnt?/ And so on..So many thought patterns and studies..

so im probably a #3 I started drinking as a choice,,,,,,the guilt of "sin" from my early personal faith beliefs were instilled in me and the "habit" turned into an illness(disease) of which daily treatment helps keep me in remission..Sure took a long road around to get to a simple answer huh??? could probably have put other also...... smile smile

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

#6. do you find this line of questioning offensive or at least inappropriate

checkmark

Last time I checked "Sin" is a religious term and AA is a spiritual program, not a religious one. thanks for playing

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

#7

mikef · MIP Old Timer

Thats interesting Rob,I agree WE are responsible for our recoveries,,In 1956 (I had already tasted the poison at a very early age 8) there was no classification of Alcoholism(abuse etc) being deemed a disease(Bill didnt believe it a disease either,he used illness as not to go too deep in those days) until then officially.. although some theories date back to late 1700's.. and to this day there are still sides that debate the theory in the medical fields,psychological and psychiatric fields as the Disease Model.(there are many studies from both sides)It has made it easier for doctors to treat ,you are correct even with the likes of antabuse)an opiate abusers methadone) dopamine receptors all that medical stuff.........,,,,it even took until 1967 before AMA made a more profound statement as even though classified not totally accepted. For me,I know based on my own 25 years of evidence I can not pick up"just one" drink or drug (of which alcohol is)be it genetic,environmental,choice(I could choose that now if so deemed if I wanted to refund my misery. Medical discoveries have happened through out the years.If we remember until 1960's homosexuality was deemed by psychiatric and medical profession in some areas as a Mental disorder(disease?) In 1973 it was declassified as an illness by the American Psychiatric Association..Also others recognized masturbation,negritude(having black skin)Judaism(described by Germans in 30's by by government a disease( . the discovery of the Jewish virus is one of the greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged today is of the same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch. How many diseases have their origin in the Jewish virus! ... We shall regain our health only be eliminating the Jew.

- Adolf Hitler (quoted in Burleigh and Wippermann, Racial State, p. 107)

and actually treated political dissidents in mental hospitals and even with evidence of brain scans,genetic findings and disposition to,, times change and so do findings. Many say WE are recovered as the 1st 100 (which was really about 79 they discovered and many of those relapsed you can actually do the history research and find the names of the 79 and how they fared so I believe recovery is an everyday thing for me ,being recovered sounds too much like a cure and if my problem has been removed why would I not give it a try again.??...I KNOW WHY FOR ME,!!!,I cannot take any mind altering mood changing substance because of my own evidence of where it takes me, and I continue to work daily to ensure I don't..The sin thing is really a prelude from the temperance era and Buchman and those boys used it excessively as we are aware.pre 35 before bill and the boys.and the thing that saved the program was "God as WE understood him,,,the Tenstrike..........Like it has been stated sin is based from individual faith beliefs,for many there is no such thing as sin and many others it has been a lifelong entity.Alcoholics and drug addicts can't use withhout paying the piper(my own evidence) yet I know many years more time than I have who have found recovery without outside help or other programs)alcoholics...RSS,SPAB,SOS,SMART,MM Addicts,holistic approaches and programs say they get cured!! Many have found this topic inappropriate or as always bringing religion into a program that prides itself as a spirtiual program(though the roots are deep ,still the christian prayers,God the father,etc.. and many religious things I hear)is probably just throwing lighter fluid on a flame..Can AA weather the debates,I believe so,,it has been for long time...If you are new here to MIP or recovery or just coming back don't let these types of discussions put chinks in your armor,do your homework,listen and Dont Use no matter what, the program of AA is on pg.59 of Big Book...those are the steps WE took as a suggestive program of recovery. smile smile Started my day off with this "discussion and going to bed now ending it for me'''Sin,disease,any God,not a disease ,recovered,in recovery all I know for last close to 3 decades I cannot USE and the God of my understanding is on top of it all....nite.........

-- Edited by mikef on Sunday 7th of April 2013 08:57:56 AM

-- Edited by mikef on Sunday 7th of April 2013 09:18:23 AM

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

I would say just the first part of #3. It's an addiction....but the sin stuff is too deep for me.

From what I know the "disease concept" was developed and lobbied for so hospitals and insurance companies would classify alcoholism as something that would be covered and treated.

So the fact that it might be categorized as a disease has helped many get treatment and has saved lives....but in my heart I don't really believe it is a disease.

Whatever we think it might be categorized as, the important thing is that we realize that we are the ones responsible for our treatment and recovery.

AlcoHater · Senior Member

Being born with a destructive trait is not a sin. Not doing something to alleviate it is.

vixen · MIP Old Timer

I go with number #3. My definition of sin is an error in thinking that directs you away from Love.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

I made sure I had some quiet time to meditate on this, and some time talking to God about this before I answered.

My choice #7: It's a disease.

dis·ease
/dizz/
Noun

A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

Synonyms
illness - malady - sickness - ailment - complaint

So if I have a cold, I have a disease. I am human, and I have specific signs or syptoms that affect the quality and disposition of my life. I probably sneeze, have a sore throat, dry lips, and the sniffles.

With alcoholism, I have some specific signs and symptoms that affect the quality, habits, disposition and are regarded adversely for my life. The number one symptom of alcoholism as we all know, is that we think we don't have it. The next most common symptom is thinking we are different and unique from everyone else who does have it, once we admit we have it. Once I start I can't seem to stop, and when I'm not drinking, I'm thinking about it.

These are just common symptoms of the 2 diseases, and of course, they can vary from person to person a greatly.

There are common causes of a disease typically, like with a common cold, you'll have maybe not been getting great sleep, eating right, getting sunshine or smiles, or, possibly you've just been sneezed on with your mouth open or around a lot of people who were sick with a cold.

There are common causes of the disease typically with a common alcoholic manifestation. You may not have been getting good direction in life, shown how to care for yourself, felt loved and smiled upon, or possibly your world and experience has been that everyone is drinking, and you've been around a lot of other people who were sick with alcoholism (or adult children and the like).

I know that between my two kids, one is clearly more susceptible to catching a cold, and will catch it very easily, while the other can literally get sneezed on in the mouth and be fine. There fore, my belief through my experience is that genes must be right for us to manifest certain things in our lives easier than others, and while no two colds are alike - I don't believe 2 alcoholics are alike - however, the common symptoms allow me to easily proclaim that I have the disease of alcoholism, just as easily as it is for me to determine when I have a cold today - and for that I am grateful.

-- Edited by justadrunk on Sunday 7th of April 2013 06:48:45 PM

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

My Dearest Tasha, ...

I have rationalized things or issues like this many times in my past ... ... ... the original post asks if 'sin' is a part of the equation of our dilemma ... I think it is ... Lets take a look at the word 'sin' ... In my opinion, a sin is when a person does something, anything, against their core belief ... against better judgement if you will ... take a person who believes that for them, it is wrong to eat pork, or lets say for whatever reason, they feel that drinking a Pepsi cola is bad for them and they do it anyway for the refreshment they get or the self-satisfaction they have by doing so ... ... ... then for them, that is a sin ... that does not make it a sin for me to do so ... although I think Dean had the correct definition for 'sin', I don't think it encompassed the whole definition of the word as I understand it ... the word may have originated from religious vocabulary, but I feel it has much bigger implications here ... it is not just a 'wrong' done against a 'higher power', but also a 'wrong' done against what one thinks they should do or not do, 'higher power' or not ...

Sin is not being true to one's self, it is a deviation from what you feel to be right and just ... We pretty much always knew that a drink or two was not harmful in any way and on the same level, we always knew it was not right to get drunk ... oh, we could always say that others did it so what's the big deal, but that's a 'cop-out' ... ... ... so I'm saying to drink to excess and to know it is not right, is a sin ... whether or not that is against God or nature or whatever is of little consequence, it is against what we know deep down in our soul to be wrong ... that makes all the difference in the world to me ... I guess my age and experience is why I feel the way I do, but that's my take on this subject ...

Love ya and God Bless,

Pappy

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Hmmm, thanks - what if we grew up thinking it was just normal - that there was no such thing as sin, and when we drank, we didn't think it was wrong or against our beliefs?

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

justadrunk wrote:
Hmmm, thanks - what if we grew up thinking it was just normal - that there was no such thing as sin, and when we drank, we didn't think it was wrong or against our beliefs?

Hmmmmm, ... I think that as we grow up, we reach a point in time where we see the suffering that excessive drinking causes and if we're not dumber than a box of rocks, we can easily see something is wrong with this type behavior ... when we conclude that this is not the 'norm', then we can surmise that it is wrong for us to do so ... Alcohol will try everything possible to skew our judgement here, to convince us that it IS normal and even 'desired' ... that it is not wrong, nor a sin ...

When we drink? we become someone else, someone different all together ... we cannot possibly give thought to logical reasoning of any kind ... alcohol does our thinking for us ... alcohol will convince us we're saints and can do no wrong ... so the point becomes mute ... if I believe that there is no such thing as sin, then King Alcohol (or the 'evil one' if you prefer) has won ... I then become free to create as much misery as I chose with no conscience what so ever ... that's the day I die inside ...

chris · Senior Member

It is a disease, I don't believe in the concept of sin, especially from a religious point of view.