Hi B4,
as far as I can tell, whether you sponsor or not is between you and your God. Sponsorship is the responsibilty for taking a newcomer through the steps, following the clear-cut directions in the book, and showing them how to have a spiritual experience/awakening, and by teaching 10,11,12 how to maintain that state. It stands to reason that you know how to do this because you have been through the steps and had your own experience.

Part of your experience, by the sound of it, is what happens if we fail to keep our spiritual experience "current". This is not scientific or anything but a counsellor in a large treatment center a few years back noticed an increase in the number of patients coming in who had relapsed after considerable periods of sobriety . looking for a common thread he asked them why they relapsed. First he thought they must have stopped going to meetings, the popular misconception being that meetings keep you sober. That was the case for a few but others were still attending meetings. What it came down to in every case was that they were not sponsoring anyone. They had stopped passing it on, they weren't working with anyone. That was the common thread - make sense?

So we go right back to Bill and Bob. You will recall that Bob refused to make his amends on the first attempt and ended up drunk. Then he made his amends and immediately set about looking for an alcoholic to work with. Bill and Bob found Bill D, AA number 3. Within a few days Bill D had taken the rudimentary 6 steps and off they went looking for another alcoholic. Over 18 months they had about 10 sober alcoholics. Now imagine what would have happened if Bill W had adopted your sponsor's attitude to Dr.Bob - we'd all be pushing up daisies.

For the recovered alcoholic, active sponsorship is essential. My sponsorship efforts have been 100% successful - I'm still sober!

God bless,
MikeH.

Hi B-4,

Welcome to the MIP board. While you certainly have experiences that can help other new people coming in, I have to agree with your ex-sponsor and tomsteve above.

Carry the message via sponsorship after we have worked the first 11 steps. "See to it that our own house is in order as we cannot transmit something we haven't got". Right now, become a full fledged sponsor would just be a diversion from working the program yourself.

I have a sponcee who is about 10 months sober after a relapse and has worked hard on the first 11 steps and now I'm telling him to work on 12.

Seriously, what message are you going to bring to the new person? That it is ok to be in AA for 10 months and not have a 5th step done and you can sponsor others? I'm not wanting to give you a resentment, just hope you will step back and honestly look at the situation.

When wrong promptly admit it....do the right thing and call your sponsor back and tell him you where wrong and set a time for the 5th step.

-- Edited by Rob84 on Wednesday 27th of February 2013 12:39:39 PM

Sounds like you didn't clarify why he wanted you to wait and now you just copped a resentment and derailed yourself from working your steps again...and for what? I try and give folks the benefit of the doubt. In terms of this sponsor, I can only think that he wanted you to work the steps fully with him before working with others again. 10 months is not that long after a 5 year relapse and you have not worked through all the steps yet to be on totally firm footing. You deserve this time to work on you and built a super solid foundation with stepwork. In many of the meetings I go to there is a relatively strict stipulation that you need 1 year sobriety at least to be a sponsor at all. Yes, you are a bit different from a person that never had a year sober before, but not that different in other ways.

Indeed, helping others is how we stay sober, but there are a million other types of service. Try chairing, secretary, treasurer.... Usually those jobs take a length of sobriety time to qualify also...why is that? Cuz newcomers, even those coming back after having had long periods of sobriety are shaky. They make rash decisions and those can include things like firing their sponsors right before doing a searching moral self inventory...hrm. Basically, you just stated that you want to sponsor people when you have yet to do a moral inventory of what defects were in play that caused a 5 year relapse. You have yet to make amends for that as well. I think it would be reasonable for your sponsor to want you on step 10 at least and to have a whole year sober.

I get your frustration - but it's likely not all about you or an attempt to squelch you helping others. Work your program and take your ego out of it. (this being said - I would probably respond just the same way you did cuz I am just like you. This is why we need each other.)

**As an aside - making yourself available is much more than just raising your hand. Go talk to newcomers. Give them your number. If one of them is meant to be your sponsee, it will happen. If it's about raising your hand so you can look like you have more time and have accomplished more in front of the rest of the group...that's crap. Do the work with you mouth and you feet...not just raising your hand. My guess would be you are most qualified to sponsor someone else coming in right after a relapse and someone that has been in the program and had sobriety before. You will build that relationship by talking to such a person and sharing your experience, strength, and hope with them...not by just raising your hand and hoping they choose you as a sponsor.

im not sayin a person cant work with another alcoholic at any time, but look at the 12th step:
having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all my affairs.
what this tells me is i have worked the steps before carrying the message. plus i understand the principles behind the steps and am practicing them, which are the steps in their simplest form.

I did honestly look at the situation, that's why I am getting a new sponsor. I can not refuse to help someone because he said not to? Honestly, that's the stupidest thing I've heard in my 20 years in and around this program. I agree we disagree and am moving on.

I suggest you look at the AA pamphlet on sponsorship. It's titled Questions & Answers On Sponsorship.

Note the Q&A for such issues involving "When is a member ready for sponsorship responsibility?" and "What does a sponsor do?"

There's a link to the online version of the pamphlet in this thread:

TOPIC: Sponsorship Pamphlet

http://aa.activeboard.com/t50146639/sponsorship-pamphlet/

Here's EXACTLY what the brochure states:

 

When am I ready to sponsor?

 

Whenever we are ready to give a warm welcome and an undertsanding heart to another, we are ready to be a sponsor.

 

As far as a tenth step goes, "And when we are wrong, promptly admit it."

I was wrong to want to help another alcoholic? To give away freely what I know? I do not owe an amend, nor was I wrong.

I AM moving forward.

And last but not least. I have worked the steps before. If I was on step 5 and had never done any other steps before, I wouldn't even dream of transmitting something I wasn't even remotely close to having assertained. I know in my heart I can help. God will put this person in my path when HE is ready for this, not me.

Tanin wrote:

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Rob84 wrote:

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Tanin brought up a good point regarding the sponsorship brochure....it sugguests that would be sponsors have worked the 12 steps . . .  

---

Rob, I am unaware that the AA pamphlet so suggests.

Can you point out where it does this?

 Overall, from the information provided by the OP, I think he's on the right track.  His analysis seems sound. His decision to change sponsors is permitted and even encouraged in AA if the new sponsor will be more helpful to the sponsee's growth in AA. 

 

---

 Page 13 of the brochure: below...AA members who have actually worked the steps are often in the best position to share their experience strength and hope. The bottom of the page talks of confiding in your sponsor about  being ready to sponsor others.

just sharing my experience of best practices based on the information he provided, which was that he was working on doing the 5th, so I guess we needed to assume he jumped to 8,9,10, 11 in the 2 months since being out of jail.  Can't work 6 and 7 without doing the 5th....but wants to leap to 12th step work now, but can't understand why his sponsor may not think he is ready.    Are we making sense yet?

 

 

B4 - None of us would tell you you "can't" sponsor someone now either. Is it against the law? No. Might you help someone in a meaningful and important way? Absolutely yes. Do I see you sponsor's point and think it's sad to terminate a sponsor/sponsee relationship over this issue....yeah I do.

I guess the issue is that you are just out in the real world again and taking an inventory of yourself and relapse. Some more time devoted to self and reworking those steps to get you on solid footing would not hurt, but probably would help you. Not that you don't know the steps from working them before, just that 1 more solid run through on your own might be a good idea before doing them again with someone else as their sponsor.

Yeah...AA is a program of "suggestions" but i have had plenty of people practically tell me what to do. In the end it's your decision but it's also worthy of self inventory by taking a step back and viewing the whole thing objectively. How much is about you really wanting to sponsor versus not being able to stand anyone telling you what to do? Part of that is on your side of the street.

My first sponsor had not worked all the steps. To my knowledge he never went past step 3. He was bossy and only had 14 months sober when I met him. Was he an ideal sponsor? Yes and no. I was nuts and he answered the phone and talked to me every single day while I just strung 24 hours after 24 hours together. He was able to help me with steps 1 through 3 and that is all I did for my first year (along with chairing meetings by 3 months and secretary of a meeting by 9 months sober). So.....for me, this guy was a fine sponsor even though he wasn't the cut out of what the pamphlet suggests. I don't think an oldtimer would have had the energy or tolerance for my drama and breakdowns. To that degree, folks newer wind up sometimes being better sponsors for the ultra new person because those with many years of sobriety don't want their serenity thrown off by someone who is so in the thick of chaos. I changed sponsors when I had a little over a year sober because I did need someone that had more knowledge and had lived the program and been through the steps repeatedly and by then I was sober long enough to not have a spaz attack over every little thing.

So...either you want what you sponsor has and trust him or not. If you trust him and want what he has, that may involve doing things he tells you that you don't understand or fully agree with. That's part of being humble and taking suggestions. Otherwise you'll be switching sponsors every time you don't like what you hear and that's a bigger issue than whether or not you raise your hand to be a sponsor yourself. If my sponsor is saying something I don't agree with, usually it's my issue cuz my busted thinking has me coming to him in the first place. Granted, we do have to make decisions for ourselves and if my sponsor told me to go out and kill people or something like that, I'd have to say he was wrong and not do it (an absurd example I know but you get the idea). So...it's a fine line.

In the end - your choice and your program. Wishing you the best and, either way you are going to learn. Nothing you are saying here is "wrong" persay and I for one support you and your recovery either way. Glad you made it back and hope to hear more from you on the boards. Your experience, strength, and hope will be valuable to many others.

**Also, B4 --- You can give away what you have in your shares, by chairing meetings, by doing all kinds of other service.  You are probably right that you relapsed partially from not giving it away but it's more broad than just being a sponsor.  Those other forms of service probably keep you more in the program actually because they involve you being accountable to many and not just 1 or a couple people.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 28th of February 2013 09:50:15 AM