To me that would be like going to the hospital, needing urgent care and it being full of doctors and nurses, but no medical equipment or medication available!!
The literature has our solution in it. Why would someone withhold that from a suffering alcoholic?
I do give a lot of big Books books, 12x12 and Daily Reflection books away. Why? Because in 23 years I have yet to see an alcoholic recover just because they hung out around me! LOL
I don't think it would be fair to show someone only what "I" did to recover, it would be more effective to show someone what "We" did. My life is simply an example of it, not the "how to" of it.
This program is about one alcoholic, (human being) reaching out to help another with a message of hope, bouncing things off another person who understands, a person who can help you through the 12 steps in a caring, honest and direct manner. It surely has its human element. But I do not have the power to remove someone's desire to drink, or restore them to sanity during a mental blank spot, bring about the internal change that someone else might need, or many other things that happen on a spiritual plain. When I put myself out there as the all knowing, present myself as though placing your faith in me is the answer, I am surely setting you up for disappointment.
I am suppose to provide them with all our resources for finding the God of their understanding and developing a relationship with Him.
I was at my homegroup yesterday and the lead, said He does not give the new guy a Big book, How does everyone feel about that..There was big....Jaw dropping..he said he says you dont need a big book you need a human i dont know about that..Alot of people disagrees...What do yall think?
I think that book saved my life.....I saw myself in it....And I saw what the solution was. No human power could relieve my alcoholism. Following the suggestions in it...Did. The Big Book was my introduction to AA....I thank God for that.
I don't know why you wouldn't want to give someone every possible chance at success. You never know what the one thing is that will make the whole program click for someone else.
The BB absolutely got me into my first meeting. I ordered it on Amazon and began reading... I was all "How did these guys KNOW me??". I truly believe it helped save me. Yes, we need human interaction, as your man says, but the literature that AA is based on is of equal importance. It hit my soul and mind in a way that made the twisted logic I'd been living with make sense- and that there were many others who suffered as I did and found a path out. Best work of literature I've yet to read. I think it's a mistake to not expose newcomers with it- it is the textbook of AA.
I was at my homegroup yesterday and the lead, said He does not give the new guy a Big book, How does everyone feel about that..There was big....Jaw dropping..he said he says you dont need a big book you need a human i dont know about that..Alot of people disagrees...What do yall think?
In the Preface to the Big Book, it is stated that there exists a strong sentiment against any radical changes to the basic text because it (the text) has helped such large numbers of alcoholics to recovery. The Foreward to the First Edition clearly states that the purpose of this book is to show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered. The Foreward to the Fourth Edition states that though there have been sweeping changes to the customs of our fellowship, our literature has preserved the integrity of the AA message. In the chapter entitled "Working with Others" it is suggested that a copy of thie Big Book be left somewhere where the new man can see it BEFORE a member of the fellowship makes their approach so that the potential newcomer can read about our lifestyle and decide if he or she wants what we have to offer.
Again and again we are told of the value, pupose, and importance of the Big Book. While contact with people in the fellowship is a vital part of our recovery, people can and often do convolute the message of AA. Literature preserves the integrity of that message. It is difficult to argue with what over one hundred seemingly hopeless men and women have put down in black and white.
So yeah, I get what the trusted servant at your home group was trying to say but I also feel that he was dead wrong.
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"And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned."
Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 84
An addict is WHAT I am but it does not define all of WHO I am.
You hear a lot of things in meetings...For me...This is where the saying...Take what you want and leave the rest applies...Not with the directions for the steps...As outlined in that book. I've heard people say they were told to do one step a year....That's something else...I wouldn't take with me.
Hello everyone, Its been a while since I been able to get on here. I can, from my own experience eco everyones sentements on this tread. I love the Big Book, It is alive and has and will be the center of recovery from alcoholism for me. But to be fair, I didnt hear all of what that guy said. when I read TT's post I thought of a story in the book from the very early days when there was no Big Book. I love this story because it shows how one alcoholic talking to another, disolving feelings of aloneness can get someone to do things they know wont work, to recover from alcolism, its what AA is really all about. I dont know, but it seemed to work for them.
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
I wanted it, and would do anything to get it. I was completely licked by alcohol. I can still remember very distinctly getting into Akron at eleven p.m. and routing this same Howard out of bed to do something about me. He spent two hours with me that night telling me his story. He said he had finally learned that drinking was a fatal illness made up of an allergy plus an obsession, and once the drinking had passed from habit to obsession, we were completely hopeless, and could look forward only to spending the balance of our lives in mental institutions or to death. He laid great stress on the progression of his attitude toward life and people, and most of his attitudes had been very similar to mine. I thought at times that he was telling my story! I had thought that I was completely different from other people, that I was beginning to become a little balmy, even to the point of withdrawing more and more from society and wanting to be alone with my bottle. Here was a man with essentially the same outlook on life, except that he had done something about it. He was happy, getting a kick out of life and people, and beginning to get his medical practice back again. As I look back on that first evening I realize that I began to hope, then, for the first time; and I felt that if he could regain these things, perhaps it would be possible for me too. The next afternoon and evening, two other men visited me and each told me his story and the things that they were doing to try to recover from this tragic illness. They had that certain something that seemed to glow, a peace and a serenity combined with happi-
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ness. In the next two or three days the balance of this handful of men contacted me, encouraged me, and told me how they were trying to live this program of recovery and the fun they were having doing it. Then and then only, after a thorough indoctrination by eight or nine individuals, was I allowed to attend my first meeting. This first meeting was held in the living room of a home and was led by Bill D., the first man that Bill W. and Dr. Bob had worked with successfully. The meeting consisted of perhaps eight or nine alcoholics and seven or eight wives. It was different from the meetings now held. The big A.A. book had not been written and there was no literature except various religious pamphlets. The program was carried on entirely by word of mouth. The meeting lasted an hour and closed with the Lord's Prayer. After it was closed we all retired to the kitchen and had coffee and doughnuts and more discussion until the small hours of the morning. I was terribly impressed by this meeting and the quality of happiness these men displayed, despite their lack of material means. In this small group, during the Depression, there was no one who was not hard up. I stayed in Akron two or three weeks on my initial trip trying to absorb as much of the program and philosophy as possible. I spent a great deal of time with Dr. Bob, whenever he had the time to spare, and in the homes of two or three other people, trying to see how the family lived the program. Every evening we would meet at the home of one of the members and have coffee and doughnuts and spend a social evening. The day before I was due to go back to Chicago, a
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Wednesday and Dr. Bob's afternoon off, he had me down to the office and we spent three or four hours formally going through the Six-Step program as it was at that time. The six steps were: 1. Complete deflation. 2. Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power. 3. Moral inventory. 4. Confession. 5. Restitution. 6. Continued work with other alcoholics. Dr. Bob led me through all of these steps. At the moral inventory, he brought up some of my bad personality traits or character defects, such as selfishness, conceit, jealousy, carelessness, intolerance, ill-temper, sarcasm and resentments. We went over these at great length and then he finally asked me if I wanted these defects of character removed. When I said yes, we both knelt at his desk and prayed, each of us asking to have these defects taken away. This picture is still vivid. If I live to be a hundred, it will always stand out in my mind. It was very impressive and I wish that every A.A. could have the benefit of this type of sponsorship today. Dr. Bob always emphasized the religious angle very strongly, and I think it helped. I know it helped me. Dr. Bob then led me through the restitution step, in which I made a list of all of the persons I had harmed, and worked out ways and means of slowly making restitution. I made several decisions at that time. One of them was that I would try to get a group started in Chicago; the second was that I would have to return to Akron to attend meetings at least every two months until I
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did get a group started in Chicago; third, I decided I must place this program above everything else, even my family, because if I did not maintain my sobriety I would lose my family anyway. If I did not maintain my sobriety, I would not have a job. If I did not maintain my sobriety, I would have no friends left. I had few enough at that time.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
I thought the same as BillyJ. In hind sight, given the choice of one or the other, I'd chose a good sponsor (who presumably has perfect knowledge of the Big book and how to work the steps) over just the book. If that is what the guy was trying to convey. But heck, he may just be a cheap skate (are you close to Can-a-duh?) and thinking the newcomer might be a waste of $4
In my experience it is up to the group, via a business meeting with voting, to decide whether to give Big Books to newcomers, paid for out of the collections. I have never heard of a group that didn't give the book nor any that couldn't afford to. How does this one person get to decide? Also, RECEIVING something that has no strings attached when you are first coming in the door is awesome---and what a gift it is! The guy's logic is flawed anyway-having a book in no way diminishes having people around, especially by being able to have discussion about how we humans apply the principles of the program as conveyed in the book!! There is also a "safety" factor in having the book when one is too scared, stubborn, sick, shamed-whatever-to talk to somebody. The book is a life-saver for so many-plus the book is there when people aren't--many of us know those dangerous middle-of-the night times when a piece of literature or a tape made/makes all the difference.
In hind sight, given the choice of one or the other, I'd chose a good sponsor (who presumably has perfect knowledge of the Big book and how to work the steps) over just the book.
I don't know Dean...For me....A good sponsor's first suggestion would be to read the first 164 pages of the Big Book....From the cover...And when they're done....Have them read it again. I read it three times before I had a sponsor...I knew what questions I had.
The AA Big Book IS the solution in print ... the only problem I see here is that when a person finds a sponsor ... it's kinda like a "Box of Chocolates" ... ... ...
You never know what you're goin' to get ... ... ... ergo, the suggested 'temporary sponsor' ... ... ...
Without the Big Book, there would be no recovery IMO ... ... ... because like Dean referred to ... only perfect knowledge of the book will work ... and how many humans do we trust with this knowledge on their own ???
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I know there were alot of comments disagreeing with what he said..i mean he was a good lead but he was just he had been sober since like 1981 we were al shocked the look on everyones faces...besides that it was an amazing lead but im just thinkin so does he not take his new guy or young guy thgouth the steps. a human is nice btu is aid yeah you need a human who is experience to take you through the book i know i wouldnt of been able to just stay sober just going to meetings every day you have to work the program work through the book to be successful
I know right? I agree totally you need the big book like when i first started going to meetings i was going to alot of younger meetings then i went to an old timers meeting and hte first thing a person did was give me a big book and said i will be your sponser till you find one...i was like oh okay..thanks..then i found my sponser and we went through it were almost at the stories in the back now and that book helped me alot awsnered alot of my questions as well
You know the thing with that is this guy this lead has been sober since like 1981...im like wait and you dont give a person a big book, He said his sponser took him through it but his sponser passed away...i dont think he sponser that many people he has his own book his sponser took him through it but as i said hes sonser passed The Book IS the program.
I'm not sure I have a view either way. I vaguely remember hearing that Bill W. was opposed to giving away Big Books partly on the basis that buying your own if you can afford it, would be a reasonable length to go to.
Also there is the thought expressed in the book on page 98. "It is not the matter of giving that is in question, but when and how to give. That often makes the difference between failure and success. The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God. " What kind of message are we sending? Sit back and we will provide?
Giving someone a Big Book and telling them to read it might salve your conscience, but might not be that beneficial to the newcomer. I read the book in my first few days and got nothing out of it, because I read it like a novel - very entertaining tralala!
It's a lot less convenient but maybe letting the guy by his own book and then giving him your time to sit with him and study it would be a more appropriate form of giving and certainly more rewarding for both parties.
Many groups that do choose to give a book, in my experience, may say first "If you need one and can't afford it, we have one for you, see so & so after the meeting. They don't just hand 'em out to everybody.
