I FINALLY finished step 4. This overwhelming sense of needing to swept over me and I stayed up most of the night to do so. One thing that struck me- how much time and money I spent in therapists offices throughout my life to get to this- the root of the issues. I'd sit in the office trying to articulate just what and who was to blame for my woes. I'm absolutely not disparaging therapy- i did get much out of it. In my own experience , though, nothing got to the essence of what was 'wrong' like the process of step 4 did. It seems the questions regarding that unnameable rage, sadness, despair.. The madness have been answered. What a strange thing. All of these things I defined myself through I thought would never leave me. Now on to step 5. Curious as to people's experience with this. I'm thinking to do this with my sponser, but wanted to hear of others experiences.
We have a local step study group, that uses 100's of resources (besides the BB and 12&12) . The 2 gentlemen that put this 24 week study on (for 22 years in a row now) say that "the 12 steps represent a million dollars worth of psych therapy"
Hey Col, ... Step 5 is probably done with your sponsor in most cases (if you have 'total trust and faith' in them to preserve anonymity ...) ... I have known others in the program to go to clergy and even one guy went to a 'homeless' person to do their 5th step ... that eliminated any chance of our 'past' getting out and into the wrong hands ...
Step 5 puts us into a vulnerable position ... it lays our souls bare to another human being and we are at their mercy for the discretion to keep all this private ... I for one, wish I had gone to a monk, like one of my friends did, to do my 5th ... (seriously, one guy called a monastery and made an appointment with a monk ... it turned out great) ... I guess it really boils down to what kind of baggage we have and if it can come back and do us harm in the wrong hands ...
Also, if I had it to do over, I'd have set up my 5th with a stranger ... why? ... it's just the thought that at least one other person in the group will most definitely think less of me after knowing some of the things I did ... and that doesn't have to happen ... I'm all for setting it up with someone who has no connection to AA or any other part of my life ... just get it done ASAP ... you will feel a Mountain lode being lifted from off your back ... (amazing what we carry around with us) ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi Col, the 5th step had a profound effect on me, a real turning point. I took mine with my sponsor. An unexpected benefit came from this and that was that he shared some of his 5th step and I realised that what happened to me was just normal stuff for alcoholics. I lost that sense of shame and apartness. Since the start I had thought I was one of the worst people ever to come to AA and if people knew what I was really like they would kick me out. I now know this simply isn't so, that I am just an ordinary alcoholic, no better or worse than anyone else. Another big plus was that I had my first good night's sleep. It seems the cause of my inability to sleep was spiritual in nature and when I took the required action, I slept like a baby. Afterwards I took the Big Book and read again about step 5 and realised that what it says, quoted below, was exactly true for me.
"When we decide who is to hear our story, we waste no time. We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk. We explain to our partner what we are about to do and why we have to do it. He should realize that we are engaged upon a life-and-death errand. Most people approached in this way will be glad to help; they will be honored by our confidence.
We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe."
the overwhelmning sense of needing suggests you did a fairly good third step .the ability to view oneself on a more elevated spiritual plane..so you were able to view the rage sadness and dispair...that form of behavior is common to the alcoholic Why? B ecause one other basic factor has kept you from living the life you were meant to live..and If you just look a little closer you might be able to see that the choices made were those prompted by fear..that which separated oneself from God and self.fear is the absense of god's faith...so look a little deeper and find fear...If you realize an emotional realize you have admitted to god and yourself and you are forgiven..you are a recovering alcoholic
the 4th step and the 5th are inextricably connected....If you read the step carefully it says Admiited to God, to ourselves and another human being the EXACT N ATURE of your wrongs.. the definition of NATURE according to Merriam Webster dictionary..."The inhertant character or basic constitute of a person or thing..ESSENCE...An inner force or the sum of such power in an individual...
so it has NOTHING to do with the social admittance to another human being a litany of of trash conduct, thoughts or motivations..but to find the Essence..and if you look beneath the rage sadness and dispair..and you do it well you will find fear..have an emotional release and again you are forgive..I took a friend Father Joe Martin 35 years ago to the best restaurant in Clearwater Fl. and while having coffee. said..when I was three my older sister called me a fradie cat and a crybaby..and I just found out she was right spending the drinking years proving she was wrong with alcohol..That's it..admission to another human being can be a social thing
I apologize for typos and lack of a curseory edit..my computer battery running low..My 4yth and 5th has stood the test of time 34 years taken at that level after 5 years of sobriety..When you can get at the core of your being what drives you..The alcoholic finds only fear..You don't experience a conversion you experience through these steps a sober awareness of God and the relationship of self...and begin to see the methodology of the other steps..taking proper action without fear....the 7th step at the end makes it quite clear..Fear is the activator of all my character defects.
Father Martin and I had an enjoyable lunch..told me Tomas never forgrt..the Good is often the enemy of the best..I laughed..and picked up the $75.00 tab.
I like how you put that, Tomas. Yes, I can certainly see that fear and self- loathing are the undercurrent... And that self loathing is also a form of fear. Thanks for everyone's responses.
Don't get your verbs mixed up..loathing means to feel intense dislike or disgust for...you feel that way because you can view yourself on a higher plane..sober plane..the loathing is for the drunk you were, the alcoholic anjd or drug addict....what prompts the actions that you loath is the alchoholic self..the fearful self...the self that was separated from God..When you see that you were sick but now recovering..You need to FORGIVE yourself before God can forgive you..have that personal emotional release and the rest is easy..a cup of tea with the sponsor or something..
I did my 5th with a therapist I had at the time who I had a great relationship with. I didn't feel comfortable or trusting enough to do it with my sponsor or anyone else I knew. I'm glad I did it that way, as some of the things I had to say I could hardly get out of my mouth. What a relief when it was done. Good luck, and don't let anyone tell you there's only one right way to do things in AA.
Several years ago I was looking at a demographic chart of AA members.. As I remember oldtimers are rather few particularly in my range...but more importantly a big drop off after 5 years.. This is ONLY my opinion but believe that most drop out because of an insufficient 4th and 5th step..Many pay lip service to it..If this is done the other steps, and their application may not make clear sense...resulting in dropping by the wayside..Prehaps there are several ways in doing it correctly but there are many ways in doing it incorrectly..so listen to the winners..only a suggestion.
... Step 5 is probably done with your sponsor in most cases (if you have 'total trust and faith' in them to preserve anonymity ...) ... I have known others in the program to go to clergy and even one guy went to a 'homeless' person to do their 5th step ... that eliminated any chance of our 'past' getting out and into the wrong hands ...
Also, if I had it to do over, I'd have set up my 5th with a stranger ... ............ I'm all for setting it up with someone who has no connection to AA or any other part of my life ... ...
A lot of good info about Step 5 above.
The Big Book and the 12 & 12 recommend taking the 5th step with clergy under some circumstances, viz., a religious observation of confession. (And even for those who don't have a religious/confession history.)
Also, as a general comment not related to OP, there have been recent cases of AA sponsors compelled to report or testify regarding serious crimes divulged to them by sponsees. Although there is a clergy/confessee confidentiality privilege and a doctor/patient confidentiality privilege that are legally recognized, the same does not apply to AA sponsor/sponse communications.
... Step 5 is probably done with your sponsor in most cases (if you have 'total trust and faith' in them to preserve anonymity ...) ... I have known others in the program to go to clergy and even one guy went to a 'homeless' person to do their 5th step ... that eliminated any chance of our 'past' getting out and into the wrong hands ...
Also, if I had it to do over, I'd have set up my 5th with a stranger ... ............ I'm all for setting it up with someone who has no connection to AA or any other part of my life ... ...
A lot of good info about Step 5 above.
The Big Book and the 12 & 12 recommend taking the 5th step with clergy under some circumstances, viz., a religious observation of confession. (And even for those who don't have a religious/confession history.)
Also, as a general comment not related to OP, there have been recent cases of AA sponsors compelled to report or testify regarding serious crimes divulged to them by sponsees. Although there is a clergy/confessee confidentiality privilege and a doctor/patient confidentiality privilege that are legally recognized, the same does not apply to AA sponsor/sponse communications.
Very good pont Tanin. In fact here even doctors are obliged to report certain offences. And we in AA enjoy no special privileges under the law, something I hadn't even thought about until about two years ago when someone confessed to two murders in a meeting, one victim was an AA member.
My suggestion to those wanting to take the fifth step is to try to avoid incriminating the listener by keeping unresolved criminal matters general, not specific. Remembering also that we have agreed to go to any lengths for victory over alcohol which includes cleaning up the past, even if that might mean going to jail, there is an implied intention that the person taking the fifth step is going to do the right thing. They can perhaps go to a lawyer with criminal matters.
If one is just going through the motions but has no intention of facing the consequences of their actions, the effect of the 5th step will be limited to say the least, and in the worst case, recovery may not be possible.
