My best friend in AA (a woman) has become frustrated lately with people not returning her phone calls. I can't help her with this because I don't identify. She says when she asked 2 of the people why they didn't return her calls they said they didn't get back to her because after they let a few days go by they became more and more "afraid" to call her back with each additional day that passed.
I tend to think this is BS. I believe it's people's egos rejecting and withholding from her. They might not even know this themselves but I think that's what it is. I believe it's a way to cause another alcoholic resentment so they can get a little relief for the way they feel. Am I wrong about that? Can anyone be honest about this if you do it and if so, why? Because I don't identify either way.
-- Edited by odat on Sunday 13th of January 2013 06:15:26 AM
Hmmm, I do call people back so I can only guess that it could be insecurity and fear. The same thing I feel when people do not call me back. This is where I turn it over to God and let that love from Him soak in for a while. I think about the love he has for the people who are not calling me back and it helps to quiet my worries.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
It's for them to figure out through their program though isn't it? I was told not to get tangled in other peoples reactions and responses... but worry about my own.
We don't actually know, and it's our choice to either assume the glass is half full or half empty when we can't see it.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Trying to figure things out is where I myself get into trouble. I have to use my heart and the 12 steps to let God bring me the answer. She does that too. The truth is it doesn't matter why someone doesn't return an phone call. If they can't, the can't. I still find this a very interesting disease. Some symptoms I don't identify with.
I think it's cooking up more resentments to perceive people as going around slighting each other to obtain "relief" You make it sound like everyone is suffering so badly inside and they just aren't. If 2 separate people told me they were afraid to call me back if they let a day or 2 go in between calling back, I would then wonder what it was about me that was causing this....or I just wouldn't care. I would then suck it up and try and act less bitter and blaming when people forget to call me the next day or whatever. I wouldn't try and turn it on them because 1. I cant control them and 2. It turns me into a victim to go around acting all wounded by others and viewing them so negatively.
There might be exceptions to this of course. I think at the worst, I would consider the behavior being unreliable and unaccountable. That is as far as I would go with it. To percieve it as purposely hurtful behavior done to make them feel good is taking it to another level and viewing others as more negatively than I personally care to.
I guess what I am saying is I would be really careful in my interpretations about others purposely inflicting harm because that is labeling a whole lot of people as sadistic (enjoying causing pain) and that is just not a common human behavior. Most of us do not enjoy hurting each other. We do it cuz we don't know better.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Trying to figure things out is where I myself get into trouble.
Amen Susan, ... ... ... When I try to understand why things are as they are, I confuse myself and get frustrated ... ... ...
I like Frodo's answer that there are 3 sides to every situation ... the way I see it, the way they see it, and the truth ... ... ...
For me ... and I mean this is just me ... I have several sponsees that call at all different times ... I welcome their calls and the average time is 10 to 20 miunutes to be brought up to date with what's going on in their lives today ... whether or not they've been tempted to drink and the details and solutions to any problems they are having ...
I do have one sponsee that will call and spend no less than an hour, sometimes an hour and twenty minutes talking about any and everything under the sun ... you know the type, the ones that tell you every detail of their day ... what they eat and why, how they clean things and why, what he needs done to his front porch and why ... on and on and on with no discussion relating to recovery ... trying to be nice, I have let this go on for nearly three years ... (no one else will sponsor him, now I know why ...)
So ... now there are times when he calls, ... (HeeHee, the truth) ... that I just can't or don't want to be tied up for that long ... BUT, unless I expect to see him at a meeting later that day, I do return his calls when I find it convenient to my schedule ... (he is a good guy, lives alone, and loves to talk, period ...)(but it can get a little 'old' ... if you know what I mean ... helps me with my 'tolerance' though ...)
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I myself have a rule about returning phone calls...I return every single on within 48 hours. Other people have lives and so do I.
I have an old friend right now who is drunk again. I love and care about him very much. He tends to start calling me a lot when he drinks. In the past I have asked him to stop calling me drunk but he couldn't. Now that I been thru the 12 steps and he got drunk again I know how to handle it based on what God wants.
This time, I let him call drunk but I only returned 3 of his calls. Each time I let him know the type of meeting I found my solution at...Big Book Steps is all he hasn't tried and he's almost dead...been drinking on and off with some recovery in between as long as I've known him and he's gonna die...so I can't save him...I can hurt him more.
There is a set of directions he has yet to allow another man to pass on to him...we have many Big Book Steps meetings here and he's gone to few or so he says...last I heard he had a sponsor and was trying...I have to let him be in the hands of God now...I don't want to steal his willingness by stopping his fall.
Sometimes people die but I can kill them faster if I get in God's way...this is difficult to do for a codependent like me who loves her friend.
There are some people I stopped calling back because it's one crisis after another. All self induced. They ask my opinion, I offer them suggestions on ways to do things differently. They never take my advice, nor any of the other advice of the other people that they call. They keep doing the same things over an over and over and expect a different outcome.....sounds a lot like the definition of insanity....maybe she falls under that? After a while, you can only hear the same tales of woe with being an enabler....imo...
I had issues at first with not being able to reach people, not getting called back, etc.... it's been one of my struggles in finding a sponsor. In FACT (not to hijack the thread) but one sponsor I had specifically never answered the phone, I just called & talked to a voice mailbox. Talk about ineffective.
Anyway at some point I figured out that I had to call my AA peeps just to say hi or ask if they saw the Sox game last night or whether they saw the new Whole Foods going up. Something. It made it so when the boat started to rock they were much more likely to either call me back or answer the phone at all. I learned I had to stop calling only when things were bad.
It gave me a much different outlook on a couple of things in the program- first- as the OP said, other people have lives & so do I, so I can't expect people to drop everything every single time I call. Second, if I just go down the list in my phone it's pretty likely someone in my network will pick up. (the phone) Even sometimes a text works. It's not my first choice and not ideal but when I can't rightly call (if I'm at work or whatever) sometimes a text to say hi does the trick.
I used to take it personally but I don't anymore. People have lives. I like that :)
OK. So I'll be real honest here...many of those explanations can be true, sure...but what I'm talking about is this:
People in both AA & Al-anon and other 12-step fellowships can absolutely exhibit narcissistic & sociopathic tendencies. These people's disease manifestations feel like abuse to the gentle codependent with few boundaries who can't trust herself yet or simply wants a friend or a sponsor.
I have experienced many times people reeling me in only to reject me and I'm certain I did nothing wrong. Certain.
It's simple. It's a way to steal someone's power and put them into psychological pain, and the perpetrator's ego gets fed.
This re-triggers adult child abandonment/rejection/trust issues and can be very painful to the codependent. If we're not strong enough to know they're sick we can die over this repeating itself enough times. We have to be willing enough to get thru the 12 steps and God will give us what we need...there will be a sponsor who will help us for only as long as we need her/him...we will find God, and eventually our reliance must be on Him. We will develop the 6th sense to know how to go forward, relying on Him and the grace and love and peace He wants us to have.
We are lucky if we find 2 or 3 true friends in recovery. Maybe even only 1.
But God is always our Friend, and eventually we can set the boundaries and with love and understanding of those who are sick, we will be strong men and women who think of only giving, not getting.
And this is when God will show us how to create the fellowship we crave - by giving.
