Yes, it's a disease, but for anyone actively relapsing with that knowledge (acquired from treatment and some AA attendance maybe), that is the biggest copout in the world. That is like a diabetic whining and crying they have a disease and they just can't take their insulin. Yes, he's right. It is a disease. But you are the nonalcoholic and you have clarity that he doesn't. He does need to just stop drinking. It is that simple. It's the disease itself that is making it appear so complicated to him. It's a disease of self pity, inability to feel feelings and deal with them, and constantly wanting reality to be different than it is. Personally, I would like to think my tolerance or enabling of the disease would be zero, but I know it's not that easy for you. It's hard to just scrap a relationship that you have so much invested in. As someone who is an alcoholic, but also used to be in a relationship with another alcoholic for years, I know that I personally had to hop off the misery train because that was not a life I could tolerate for even 1 more day when things hit bottom. I have little tolerance for folks that consider themselves tragic victims all the time. If I were you or a friend to your partner, I would tell him to suck it up, stop being so selfish, get back to AA meetings, and stop being a whiny baby.
I speak like this because I'm pretty sure that is what would work best with me if I was relapsing. I don't know though. I guess if I was determined to drink, I would either make excuses or tell you to screw off, but alcoholics will tell you to screw off and the minute you actually go to leave, they will beg and plead and cry. What they really want to hear is "Ok, you can do whatever you want. Drink your brains out and I will stay and watch you and feel sorry for you."
So, right now alcoholism has it's ugly claws dug deep in your partner and it's causing him to have a self-sabotaging, self-pitying, victim mentality. That is the disease right there. He needs to man up and that is the tact I would take.
I highly recommend going to the alanon board though on this site. I go there too and I post on that board but I don't consider myself to have a strong alanon program like I do AA. The hard "no BS" sort of stuff we say to each other in AA does not really fly in alanon. That is a place for you to receive support from folks who have directly walked in your shoes. We (in AA) know how to deal with the alkies, but we tend to be insensitive to alanoners I guess. Most of us would probably tell you to run and lose that zero and find yourself a hero. This is because we know most of us are BSers and liars and we basically function to keep each other honest. Alanon has does not have that vibe as much and that is where I would begin your journey.
Wishing you peace and serenity, because you deserve it!
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 17th of November 2012 03:59:59 PM
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
BT, your partner is an alcoholic, he knows what he has to do to stay sober if he's been in rehab. I strung my husband along for 20 years off and on with the kind of alcoholic behavior he's putting you through. I never went to AA until my stuff was packed in my car and I was told to leave. I went to my first AA meeting the next day and have not felt the need for a drink a day at a time for over 6 years. Good advice from Dean.
-- Edited by chris on Saturday 17th of November 2012 06:44:53 PM
My partner, my best friend and the love of my life is an alcoholic. I'll preffice this by saying - I have had no personal experience with alcoholism before. And I'm finding it difficult to understand this disease.
A bit of back ground. High achiever. Smart and self aware. Gainfully employeed. Realiable employee. Comes from a wealthy family.Had a pretty difficult childhood, which he still bears the scars. Mother is an alcoholic ( though she doesnt admit it). Been like this since his late teens. Had a period of 3 years ( about 4 years ago), where he went into a private rehab facility and got sober. About 18 months ago, he relapsed and he is now drinking again. He can drink a bottle of scotch in one sitting and be so revoltingly unkind and say the most horrendous things and not recall it the next day. None of this will be new to any of you readign this I am sure... but " I " need help.
I don't understand the disease. I want him to stop. I spend long periods of time NOT asking him to stop, because I want this to be " his" decision. I dont want him to do this becasue I have begged him to.Then, after a particularly bad period, I do ask him to stop. He tells me its not that simple and that I don't understand this disease. I refuted this for a long time. I still refute this most of the time. Surely he can just stop? I drink, I am what you would call a former binge drinker ( we are both 40). In my late twenties and thirties, I binge drank most weekends. And in the last 2 years, my drinking has slowed to the occasional drink, and the volumes of what I drink are much less. I understand that I need to stop ( that we need to have an alcohol free house) if he is going to have half a chance. I was, am and will be MORE THAN WILLING to do this. I can stop. Just like that. Even have for periods in an effort to encourage him to stop. no dice.. He would have all the support in the world from he, but my frustration stems from him ( from my perception) of him not trying.
He;s recently agreed to stop drinking scotch ( as this is a drink that makes him particularly mean and aggressive, verbally.). But in the last week, I have discovered that he is buying small bottles of alcohol, hiding them and swigging out of the bottle at an opportune time.
I am at a loss. I LOVE this man. But I can see him slipping into this battle and losing the fight completely. I can't help. It's not my fight. This also makes me angry, angry that he does not love me enough to want to try to stop. But he says this is not about love. Its about the disease. And I know this is true.... I have no trouble beleiving that in my head now.. I just wish someone would tell it to my heart.
Would love anyones input here, to explain away my ignorance. to give me some new indsight and/or ideas on how best to deal with our life as it is.
Welcome to MIP ... you made several observations above that bare comment on ... 1st, your friend will make NO progress unless he wants help ... he must be the one making that decision else 'no human power' will be able to help him, period! ... ... ... 2nd, ... when we are in active alcoholism, we lose the ability to love anyone or anything other than alcohol ... Alcohol becomes the Master and we become its slave ... we will lie, cheat, steal, go to any lengths to get our beloved poison ... we will frequently hide it from our friends and family in order to drink secretly ... it IS a 'fatal' disease unless the user admits he has a problem to begin with and then proceeds to take certain steps to begin 'recovery' ...
Personally ??? ... I've seen or read of many solutions to alcoholism, but have only found one solution that worked for me ... AA and its Steps and Principles ... that was the only true solution for me that ever worked, and it continues to work for me today ...
Don't even bother trying to 'understand Alcoholism', we don't even understand it ourselves, but we do know that we are like 'tornadoes' ripping through others peoples lives, destroying anything in its path ... we destroy the things we love most and don't ever really know why ... we take one 'freakin' drink and we can't stop til we're passed out ... it's like an allergy ... the one drink creates a 'CRAVING' deep inside us that tells us we must drink or go insane ... ironically ??? ... its the drink that drives us insane ...
I suggest you try human contact like Al-Anon ... they have meetings just like we do and they are there to support you ... you are not alone, there are many others like you going through the very same things ...
Someone here will hopefully post a web link for you to go to to find out more about Al-Anon ... it may just help you ... but like your friend, you must be the one to decide you need help, cause nothing will get any better without action being taken ...
Love Ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Wow.. Thank you SO much for two ( wait, 3!) very honest posts. Pappy, will certainly go and have a look at alanon as a possible support mechanism for me. Thank you! And pinkchip, well I think you hit some nerves there with the things you say. ITs true... I'm sure a lot of my friends and relevant others would look at me with dumb astonishment if they knew what was going on. But they don't. And I'm embarrassed to tell them. Selfishly because I think it reflects weakness on my part. YOur words about the self pity resonate with me. I feel like I'm flogging a dead horse. THen, I see glimpses of hope and im renewed, and just like that they are gone again... Leaving me with a helplessness I can't describe. Guess I'm not different from the alcoholic, making excuses as to why he is like this, why it will, one day get better...
I CAN'T Thank you enough for your wonderful words..it's bloody comforting.x
Chris.. So sorry to hear all that you've been through. I admire your blunt honesty and your no fuss approach to this.. Good luck for your continued recovery. BT
BT - you sound much like my ex wife - kind and supportive and endlessly forgiving. I didn't have a snowball's chance of getting sober until there was no-one the to rescue me - in other words until she hammered the last nail in. We'd been separated ten months. I was at the end of a week long bender, which had been building for all those ten months.
I was crazy, and got arrested - you don't need to know how or why - but I get my phone call - so the police rang my then wife, on speaker phone, who said, and I quote, 'Lock the bastard up and throw away the key......I'm DONE WITH HIM.'
So they took me back to the police cell, cold , afraid, can't see because they'd took my glasses away, trousers falling down because they'd took my belt, no idea of the time because they took my watch, sick, shaking like a shitting dog and alone, abandoned, bereft, a snotty, snivelling little kid that wanted his mummy.
For the first time in nearly 50 years I had to take responsibility for my own actions and I was shitting myself. The next day, the window of oppertunity opened, thanks to a doctor who wouldn't buy my bullshit and gave me the phone number of AA instead of a sick note and the mythical magic pills.
So started my recovery, 18th October 2006, not had the need to drink alcohol since (had the want many times tho', but not lately) but i learnt in AA the truth about me and about me and booze.
Obviously I'm divorced now, and a bitter, angry, hurtful, messy and damnably expensive divorce it was too. But every so often, like now, I remember the greatest gift my ex wife ever gave me. She abandonded me and opened the door of desperation for me.
Look after yourself, my ex did, we both now have a good life.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
You know as I read these comments I'm thinking to myself, these are some the niceest honest people I have ever had the honor of getting to know, but man oh man they do have a rough brutally honest side. So I re-read the original post again, and to came to realize thy are being nice about, and are 100% correct. The fact that he has done it before, can do it, but is hiding behind the title and your lack of knowledge is a sign of his inability to be honest with anyone let alone himself. The only way he will get the help he needs is if all his life lines are cut and he is forced to grow a set and man-up.
Lot's of good experience, strength and hope here, BT.
I come from both sides of the fence and I see both sides of the fence everyday. When I was in your shoes it took me 9 years to finally realize that "I" could not change "him" and I finally took the advise to "RUN". I asked him where was the one place in the world he would never go...he said Texas...and that's how I got to Texas. He never did sober up...and my life got better and then it got worse....because I started drinking again and everyone I loved had to RUN too...and I had to face up to my al-anonism and alcoholism too. What a ride it has been! Now I watch my children going through the same things and all I can do is let them be who they are and pray that one day they too will find the solution.
Breaking the cycle...it begins with me...and, so, you as well. There is a sticker we have that we place on our mirrors that reads: You are looking at the problem...you are also looking at the solution! Good luck on your journey!
Wow.. Thank you SO much for two ( wait, 3!) very honest posts. P
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BT, i was an honest as I could be. The odds are never good, for an alcoholic to recover, especially while in a relationship as this puts a lot of pressure on them, which usually ends in failure. I had to watch my marriage end, which left me totally alone to deal with my disease. I tried to get sober and hang on to it for two years, but it proved to be too much of a distraction. Consider cutting your losses and finding someone healthy to play house with.
I feel for you BT.... My daughter is going through the same thing with her husband... Neither finished HS (but got their GED's), got pregnant, got married... He always drank too much...was already in rehab as a teen and now the baby is one year old, they are separated (and struggling) and she can't understand why he doesn't love her enough to Stop Drinking...... It is so hard on her... And hurts my heart to see them both go through this. I know... I have been the struggling mom And I have been the alcoholic struggling mom. My kids suffered, I suffered, and the spouse suffered. Wreckage of the past. I've tried to tell her that he is not doing it because he doesn't love her or the baby. But it doesn't make her stop crying. And so, I feel for you BT. Listen to these folks... They really do know what they're saying... And we all know that NONE of this is easy.
