It's been a few years since I picked up a drink, in twenty years I've drank twice, and in neither instance was the alcohol the problem. My spiritual condition was the problem, my emotional condition, even my health, physical and mental played a part.
Sobriety, to me, means healthy in mind, body and spirit, me not drinking is a prerequisite for Sobriety, but isn't Sobriety itself, although sometimes it has to do, especially in the early years.
Sobriety to me means living right, eating healthy, and going into all situations mindfully, how I deal with those around me, both professionally and personally, but health also includes body, exercise, eating the right diet both for my mind and my body. An old friend said when describing his first years in Sobriety, "Every day I tried to put one healthy thing in my body and remove something unhealthy, and after a few years I noticed my body was healthy, so I tried this with my mind, every day I tried to add one healthy thing to my mind and remove one unhealthy thing, and after a few years I noticed my mind was healthy."
This is my experience. Bill wrote something along the lines of we are miracles of recovery, we straighten out our spiritual condition and our physical condition follows suit.
I found this was true, I had to start taking care of not only what I put in my mind, but what I put in my body as well, we are the most depressed, obese, cohort in history...could it be what we eat? Turns out processed food causes depression and anxiety with it's additives, we are what we eat, just as we are what we think.
As Ralph Waldo Emerson put it, ""Watch your thoughts. They become words. Watch your words. They become deeds. Watch your deeds. They become habits. Watch your habits. They become character. Character is everything."
When I began climbing trees one of the guys teaching me told me, "Andrew, once you become a top climber one day you will encounter a tree outside your ability, no matter how good you are, it will be too difficult for you, it happens to all of us, now what you do is climb up, get rigged, and get everything you can down on the ground, just start with the easy stuff and go from there, after a few hours all you will have left is the part you couldn't do and the top, but it will look different now, and in just about every case you can come up with a plan to somehow get it down"
Somewhere that can became the plan for my life, just do what's in front of me, do the next right thing, hell do the next easy thing, but do something, and after awhile even the tallest trees can be brought down.
Every day I try to put something healthy in my mind, every day I try to put one small healthy thing in my body, and frankly I try not to look at "The Big Picture" but instead just do the next right thing, over the last few years my life, my body, and my mind have been changing dramatically, it's only visible through moments of introspection and hindsight, but the changes have been vast, especially this last year. This has to do both with what I have been putting in my mind as what I have been putting in my body.
The picture of me on the left is a year ago, I gave up wheat, starchy foods, and processed foods, anything man made and I started studying nutrition and sports nutrition, what do athletes eat? My depression went away and I lost over 40 lbs, and my energy levels soared.
I believe we are made of inter-related systems, mind, body and soul, and any system of recovery that doesn't address all three is like putting lipstick on a pig.
Sobriety today means health, mental health, spiritual health, and physical health, I need all three in order to be healthy, I look absolutely sick in the picture on the right, I was in a sick relationship eating shit food trying to live life by self will, although I didn't think so.
The next picture was after 6 months or so of changing my diet, after I lost 25 lbs, to 9 months, after I lost 40 lbs, the difference between left and right is 90 days exactly
What does Sobriety mean to you?
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 11th of October 2012 08:55:31 AM
I love this post! We cut out processed foods, fake food, man made food - whatever you want to call it, and started living by this simple thing: Would your grandma recognize it?
If she wouldn't recognize it, even if it was an apple 3 sizes bigger than the one she'd pick off a tree - we didn't eat it anymore. Would she recognize an egg so white, so perfect, with a pale yellow yolk? No. Her egg would be possibly fresh from a coop, with a golden sunset yolk.
So for us, it means we eat almost everything available to us that's been grown on organic soil. Because the more I read, the more I can't overlook that it's about additives, pesticides and fertilizer. But I'm not here to save the world today.
What happened was this: Eating organic whole foods, still had it's loop hole for me. We started eating this way about 5 yrs ago, but there were still ways for me to be a "really healthy alcoholic?" Ya right. I guzzled bottles upon bottles of organic wine - thinking and telling myself all the while it was healthy for me. 3 bottles in one night was not unusual in the end. I could find organic beer - and it made me FAT! Fast!
The weight literally fell away when I stopped drinking myself sick, and telling myself that as long as it had the green seal it was okay in any amount.
You're right about additives alone making you fat and depressed. They will do much more than that, even the carrot you eat can, when it's laced with chemicals. It screws up stuff in the brain, especially for kids, in the same potency we treat depression and other mental disorders. 1 billionth parts is all it takes to make a bumble bee fly into a tree, and us to go a little coo coo. I have been fighting the school system to let my kid eat organic foods at school all week (that I send there). "Not without a doctors order" is all I get. It's not like I'm trying to advocate for him to eat gummy worms for lunch... although, they would be healthier than a "from this age not grandmas" fertilized mammoth strawberry laced with 35 different toxic pesticides. Sad, but I believe it to be true. The strawberries from my garden are so sweet, and so small, and so worth it.
So I'm ranting here, because it's hard to find people out there around here, who I can even talk to about this without being labeled "crunchy". Oh well, what they think of me is none of my business anyway. These days, I have to pick my battles to maintain my serenity. I have to check myself and see if I'm just looking to be in control, or if I'm true. I have to look at the whole picture, and what the stress of being different can do too. I have to come into it with a clear mind, and I can only achieve that, if I don't pick up the first organic drink. It of course only begins there... then I need the program so I am even able to check myself, have my sponsor check me, have you check me... and then have a little faith in my HP - turn it over - do the best I can with what's before me.
It's been great to share about it here... good to vent thanks : )
-+
-- Edited by justadrunk on Thursday 11th of October 2012 09:41:56 AM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I'm evidently going to be controversial here. There's a difference in between what means means and what sobriety can do for us. I think that the two get confused.
Sobriety as far as I am concerned simply *means* from freedom from alcohol. There is an objective metric for sobriety: have I had a drink today.
Found Serenity and happiness, climbed Mount Everest, became an astronaut? Well, to paraphrase Ray OK's sponsor: congratulations.
Personally, no drink today is good enough for me. The rest is gravy.
Keep it simple and it doesn't get complicated :)
Steve
I think that's a great reply and not controversial in the slightest
Personally I return to that frequently, especially when the going gets tough...or really good
Sometimes not taking a drink is good enough, but that stopped being my -goal- years ago, as Bill says, that's just a bare beginning, the goal is being of maximum service to those around us, our family members, our co-workers, our wives and husbands, our children...it's just at some point I learned that meant being good to me as well, taking care of my mind, body and soul as well, if I am broken or self centered I'm unhappy and of no use to anyone.
Thanks for your thoughtul reply Lin.
Think we're on the same page -- for me, working steps means, actually guarantees, no booze today. No booze today and working the steps then means I can try and start to do the good things. Sobriety through the steps -- to me -- is an essential pre-condition of then being able to do good things, at least meaningfully. :)
Steve
Exactly
The diet or losing weight isn't about "the diet" per se, it's about being healthy, and it's amazing how much happier I am when my body is healthy, but I need all three systems in place, mind, body and soul in order to truly find serenity
(thanks for the compliment btw)
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 11th of October 2012 03:24:30 PM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
You have before and after pics like me! I'm thinking about opening Linbabapinkchip's fat farm. You in?
Seriously though, upon getting sober I have been able to start truly caring about myself and that also includes caring about my body. To me, sobriety means TOTAL TRANSFORMATION.
Even if a person does not embrace healthy eating/exercise after being in the program...you can still typically see progress in photos because the person's spirit is more visible. It's just gravy when we can wear our recovery on our outside a little bit too :)
Good work!
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Yes, Yes Yes, a thousand times yes to both responses...
not just improvement, total transformation, not a "diet" for my mind OR my body, not denying them something, but instead feeding them what they need to stay healthy
For me it started with just removing wheat, which is a dwarf wheat genetically designed in the 60's that has a number of bad side effects, including hitting the same dopamines that opium hit, and causing you to crave calories and carbs, it makes you happy for about ten minutes then you crash, I totally see and feel it now that I gave it up.
If I eat wheat now I suffer from withdrawals for about a week, if I eat wheat 3 times I gain 10 lbs. Literally as in I weigh myself every morning, and I sit and crave fat food every night for a week, it's like a drug that makes me sick, and this isn't from "wheat intolerance" per se
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Yes - great way to put it Mark - simple, and to the point - first things first comes to mind. Excellent inspiration and motivation from you guys. Love it!
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I love, love, love this post and the replies so far. I agree, sobriety for me is a total package kind of deal. I found when I really got close to my Higher Power and trusted and believed in the fact that I was loved, created for a purpose, and watched over that I found I wanted to treat my body and mind in better, purer, cleaner ways. To thrive in sobriety I am changing everything that is inside me from my thinking to my food. It's about treating myself with the same respect I extend to others. It's about valuing myself enough to bypass immediate gratification and to focus on what it is I truly hold dear. It's about requiring more of myself and not always taking that easier, softer way.
I am now willing to take responsibility for my life...the condition of my soul, mind, body, finances, relationships, career, the whole kit and caboodle. The funny thing is, it isn't the dreaded chore it used to be while I was drinking. It's not just about me. It's about reflecting God's love through me to others. Sure, it's nice to feel more fit and attractive, it's even nicer to be an example of what a God centered life can be...to reflect miracles in progress. :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
I love, love, love this post and the replies so far. I agree, sobriety for me is a total package kind of deal. I found when I really got close to my Higher Power and trusted and believed in the fact that I was loved, created for a purpose, and watched over that I found I wanted to treat my body and mind in better, purer, cleaner ways. To thrive in sobriety I am changing everything that is inside me from my thinking to my food. It's about treating myself with the same respect I extend to others. It's about valuing myself enough to bypass immediate gratification and to focus on what it is I truly hold dear. It's about requiring more of myself and not always taking that easier, softer way.
I am now willing to take responsibility for my life...the condition of my soul, mind, body, finances, relationships, career, the whole kit and caboodle. The funny thing is, it isn't the dreaded chore it used to be while I was drinking. It's not just about me. It's about reflecting God's love through me to others. Sure, it's nice to feel more fit and attractive, it's even nicer to be an example of what a God centered life can be...to reflect miracles in progress. :)
Exactly
The feeling I get is from the inside, not the outside, it's really hard to explain, but you did a good job of summing it up
__________________
Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Sobriety for me is still about keeping it simple. This is Alcoholics Anonymous. It's not Junk Food Anonymous or Diabetics Anonymous or Dirty Porno Fantasy Anonymous or Fat Slobs Anonymous or Debtors Anonymous or Bad Hair Anonymous or Funny Hats Anonymous or Checks n' Stripes Anonymous. The minute I start applying those criteria to my sobriety or worse, let someone else apply them to my sobriety (ask my ex-wife about my character defects for instance, you'll find a pretty good match for my examples), I'm basically a failure all over again. There's sort of a running debate between those who will remind you that if you didn't take a drink today, it's a good day, vs. those who would lampoon you for everything else obviously wrong with you and laugh at the idea that not drinking is a success in light of the miserable mess you are otherwise.
What. Ever.
I've had to accept this in a few of my fellow AAers, and the head bobbing that goes with it because who wants to be against healthy food? Who wants to be pro-fat? Who wants to be on record as opposing... dare I say it... perfection?
I had a good friend who got so perfect he went on a super healthy diet, started working out, won a bodybuilding contest, quit going to meetings, started drinking again and died of alcohol poisoning. I guarantee you, if you had met both of us 6 years ago at a meeting, looked at us, talked to us, and got to pick which one you'd want to be, you'd have picked my friend over me. For sure. Well now that it's 2012 and I'm the one that's still alive, fat, diabetes, pizza, and all - which would you pick?
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with any of these things. What works for you. I struggle with my diet constantly. I will never achieve anywhere near the results some of you guys have. My goal is to simply not do things that make me feel crappy, and I'm identifying a lot of foods that do just that and figuring out how to avoid them or avoid large quantities of them. But if I fail and eat ice cream tonight... or eat four of the brownies that are always present at my home group meeting, I'm not going to get a DUI on the way home or change my sobriety date, nor am I going to wallow in my failure and declare my sobriety of a lower quality than somebody else's.
Maybe if I did lose another 50 lbs and get myself all fit and trim, I'd be selling it to my fellow AAers - I hope not, but I won't know until I get there. As a life-long fat guy, I've never been under the delusion that *anybody* I meet wants to be just like me. It's just not in my vocabulary, and if anybody ever said it to me, I'd laugh out loud because certainly they would be joking. Maybe if I achieved some physical standard that mainstream society finds attractive, I'd dare think of myself as having characteristics someone might want to emulate. But seriously.... I mean, really. If I think like that - ever - I'm kidding myself. Just as I'm kidding myself if I look at somebody else and say "I wanna be like him". We can learn by example, but we'll always be just who we are no matter what the package looks like.
After 25 years of progressive devastation from a young kid of 11/12 until 1984, my surreneder brought about many different changes, a whole different person,physically ,spiritually and mentally began to evolve. Not overnite ,but with daily work.The first thing that sobriety brought me was a renewed relationship with the God of my understanding(no it wasn't jail cell religion) it was a relationship with a God I always knew but found my process of understanding changing to a loving caring relationship(Not a dogmatic one that was drilled into me,my parents beliefs).This has been integral in all further movement forward for me .A God I speak with and consult on every issue in my life.Next really learning to love myself and not be guilt ridden and of such a fake front buta real low self concept.The develpoment of finally placing others in a position of being first at times and ceasing of such an overbearing self-centeredness(I still work this very hard daily)As our primary purpose states(BB),being of maximum service to God and others ,another of lifes challenges and based truly on our fit spiritual condition.After 2 failed marriages and divorces,loss of my mid 40 year old children(now back in my life) and a 3rd marriage heading toward doom before surrender,I am very aware that I have to work especially hard in relationships again as we are told 'relationships can be terribly painful areas.A large part of my early recovery still as an obsessive/compulsive personality was transferring my energies from getting to high on alcohol(substances)I shifted to substitutes.From 1989 thru 2004 I trained and ran 12 marathons including 4 Bostons qualifying for my age group 2x.I attained a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do,became secretary of my hunting club,continued to drum in and out of bands(even now at 65)became an active member of our 12 Step programs giving back and sharing my ESH to ensure I remained focused and "in the day", working my own process ,became part of a group of members who became accountability partners and more Life endeavors(with God's grace)It is like I have had 3 separate lives..the life until 11 yrs, the 25 years of active addiction and my 28 yrs of recovery(not copping short but Dec 2nd,if it is God's will ) I will again celebrate another year of 'LIFE' I say this not to boost my ego or present a "better than" attitude but truly from a humble God graced opportunity at a life of sobriety and freedom from substance abuse.The physical HIGH we get from remaining as healthy as we humanely can(if thats is our Higher Powers plan) and the mental and spiritual feeling we get from knowing we are truly blessed to have this opportunity again after so many years"out on the tiles' is truly humbling and joyous.I am very fortunate because in my early life I was given such love, love that I am now able to pay forward and truly feel the grace of that..Do I still whine in my soup,try to take charge,be all about me at times...Sure Im human and faltering,but with the constant reach back to our spiritual principles,WE have learned and more importantly worked to instill in all areas of our lives,daily,through our Higher Powers grace and mercy,the times I spend in these spaces are limited..Recovery is definitely an inside job,we remove the masks to the best of our abilities,work to remain teachable and with insight can take a short look back ,know where we came from and where we are today.The stories,the shares and the lives I take part in here at MIP,in the rooms and in the daily adventure of SOBRIETY never cease to amaze me and help me to understand what I believe,that the God of my understandings will for me is to be all God intended me to be but the details are left up to me.....Thanx for allowing me to take part in my own recovery for another day.....And as Jimi said 'as castles made of sand ,fall in the sea, eventually ................ so will WE...Just For Today I never have to use alcohol(drugs of which alcohol is)..again ......PEACE BROTHER.....
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Sobriety for me is still about keeping it simple. This is Alcoholics Anonymous. It's not Junk Food Anonymous or Diabetics Anonymous or Dirty Porno Fantasy Anonymous or Fat Slobs Anonymous or Debtors Anonymous or Bad Hair Anonymous or Funny Hats Anonymous or Checks n' Stripes Anonymous. The minute I start applying those criteria to my sobriety or worse, let someone else apply them to my sobriety (ask my ex-wife about my character defects for instance, you'll find a pretty good match for my examples), I'm basically a failure all over again. There's sort of a running debate between those who will remind you that if you didn't take a drink today, it's a good day, vs. those who would lampoon you for everything else obviously wrong with you and laugh at the idea that not drinking is a success in light of the miserable mess you are otherwise.
What. Ever.
I've had to accept this in a few of my fellow AAers, and the head bobbing that goes with it because who wants to be against healthy food? Who wants to be pro-fat? Who wants to be on record as opposing... dare I say it... perfection?
I had a good friend who got so perfect he went on a super healthy diet, started working out, won a bodybuilding contest, quit going to meetings, started drinking again and died of alcohol poisoning. I guarantee you, if you had met both of us 6 years ago at a meeting, looked at us, talked to us, and got to pick which one you'd want to be, you'd have picked my friend over me. For sure. Well now that it's 2012 and I'm the one that's still alive, fat, diabetes, pizza, and all - which would you pick?
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with any of these things. What works for you. I struggle with my diet constantly. I will never achieve anywhere near the results some of you guys have. My goal is to simply not do things that make me feel crappy, and I'm identifying a lot of foods that do just that and figuring out how to avoid them or avoid large quantities of them. But if I fail and eat ice cream tonight... or eat four of the brownies that are always present at my home group meeting, I'm not going to get a DUI on the way home or change my sobriety date, nor am I going to wallow in my failure and declare my sobriety of a lower quality than somebody else's.
Maybe if I did lose another 50 lbs and get myself all fit and trim, I'd be selling it to my fellow AAers - I hope not, but I won't know until I get there. As a life-long fat guy, I've never been under the delusion that *anybody* I meet wants to be just like me. It's just not in my vocabulary, and if anybody ever said it to me, I'd laugh out loud because certainly they would be joking. Maybe if I achieved some physical standard that mainstream society finds attractive, I'd dare think of myself as having characteristics someone might want to emulate. But seriously.... I mean, really. If I think like that - ever - I'm kidding myself. Just as I'm kidding myself if I look at somebody else and say "I wanna be like him". We can learn by example, but we'll always be just who we are no matter what the package looks like.
Bari-Bari Fat
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from and I agree with it, -to an extent-, because my question was "What does Sobriety mean to YOU?" Not "What do other peoples sobriety look like to you?"
Me comparing my insides to someone else's outsides never fails to bring me down, but I'm working on my insides and my outsides are taking care of themselves as this is an inside job, I find people who have what I want and I do what they do, but the truth of the matter is I could give a rat's ass what anyone else's program looks like, KWIM?
I heard once that anyone you see in the rooms is doing the best they can, the absolute best they can, and that is deserving of my respect no matter what their proogram looks like, whether they are golden slippers or unhealthy or in a messed up relationship, it. just. doesn't. matter. to. me.
I have been all of those people at some point in time anyway, judgement of them is judgement of myself, I'm just talking about for me today my sobriety is threefold
Mind
Body
Spirit
and health in all three areas
That includes Rule 62, don't take myself so damned seriously, which I don't frankly, I spend a lot of time laughing at myself but also being gentle with myself, I put the bat down a long time ago, when the evidence is in I qualify handily to be in the world's biggest idiot section...and I'm OK with that
For me the weight loss thing came when I started gaining weight hand over fist even with a physical job, I was sleeping all day on my days off and I was miserable and depressed, it took me 2-3 years to find out it was wheat making me sick, I gave up wheat, lost around 20 lbs in something ridiculous like a few weeks to a month, then started playing with what I ate and researching nutrition and just started eating healthy and the weight continued to drop off, as my physical condition improved my mental condition did as well, my self esteem, my decision making, my ability to navigate complex emotional situations all improved dramamtically as did my conscious contact (spiritual condition)
When I got sober all my friends started coming up to me and explaining their drinking, and I told them I didn't care about their drinking, if they wanted to get sober I'd be at these meetings 4 nights a week, and if they wanted to get drunk I'd be bartending at _________ 3 nights a week, I'd be equally happy to see them at either place.
You're happy being "Bari-Bari Fat" right on, more power to you, I'd totally give you a hug and accept you for who you are, you'd NEVER have to defend or explain your decisions to me.
That's what this gig is about, and that's what my question is about, what does sobriety mean to you, NOT what do other peoples sobriety mean to you, because as Rhett so famously said, "Frankly My Dear, I don't give a damn" lol
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I'm evidently going to be controversial here. There's a difference in between what means means and what sobriety can do for us. I think that the two get confused.
Sobriety as far as I am concerned simply *means* from freedom from alcohol. There is an objective metric for sobriety: have I had a drink today.
Found Serenity and happiness, climbed Mount Everest, became an astronaut? Well, to paraphrase Ray OK's sponsor: congratulations.
Personally, no drink today is good enough for me. The rest is gravy.
I'm evidently going to be controversial here. There's a difference in between what means means and what sobriety can do for us. I think that the two get confused.
Sobriety as far as I am concerned simply *means* from freedom from alcohol. There is an objective metric for sobriety: have I had a drink today.
Found Serenity and happiness, climbed Mount Everest, became an astronaut? Well, to paraphrase Ray OK's sponsor: congratulations.
Personally, no drink today is good enough for me. The rest is gravy.
Keep it simple and it doesn't get complicated :)
Steve
I think that's a great reply and not controversial in the slightest
Personally I return to that frequently, especially when the going gets tough...or really good
Sometimes not taking a drink is good enough, but that stopped being my -goal- years ago, as Bill says, that's just a bare beginning, the goal is being of maximum service to those around us, our family members, our co-workers, our wives and husbands, our children...it's just at some point I learned that meant being good to me as well, taking care of my mind, body and soul as well, if I am broken or self centered I'm unhappy and of no use to anyone.
__________________
Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Such a big part of this program for me is walking into a room full of people I have ONE HUGE MAJOR thing in common with. Alcoholism. From there, meeting people with similar interests, similar goals and ways of looking at things, has been a great joy before/after meetings, and here on this discussion board. For the first time ever, I can become friends with people - real friends. I do this, by talking about my life, my sobriety, my family, my health, my hair etc. Other people seem to do the same, and unlike in the rest of the world - even the people I have NOTHING in common with, I have ONE HUGE MAJOR thing in common with still. It's really neat. I love it. Getting to hear other peoples viewpoints - the way others view sobriety - what it means to them, what it doesn't - it's all part of it.
I learn the most it seems, from the people who disagree with me entirely! But only here in AA did I finally learn to see people as just that. People. Individual people who are different from me, and that's okay for the first time ever. People who make mistakes, spout off just like me, love and support - just like me, and some people who are just nothing but an inspiration every moment I see them, but then all of a sudden aren't... and I'm not devastated anymore!!! It's just fine with me! They have a fresh start tomorrow - they grow and change every day - JUST LIKE ME! So I keep coming back, to see what's what, cuz the constant growth is amazing. And people I think are my enemy today, are the people who save my life tomorrow, and some days I get to not even think about who's who... it's just a whole new level... and some days I suck, and so do you... to me. But I love you all just the same when I really know what a gift all of this stuff is.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I'm evidently going to be controversial here. There's a difference in between what means means and what sobriety can do for us. I think that the two get confused.
Sobriety as far as I am concerned simply *means* from freedom from alcohol. There is an objective metric for sobriety: have I had a drink today.
Found Serenity and happiness, climbed Mount Everest, became an astronaut? Well, to paraphrase Ray OK's sponsor: congratulations.
Personally, no drink today is good enough for me. The rest is gravy.
Keep it simple and it doesn't get complicated :)
Steve
I think that's a great reply and not controversial in the slightest
Personally I return to that frequently, especially when the going gets tough...or really good
Sometimes not taking a drink is good enough, but that stopped being my -goal- years ago, as Bill says, that's just a bare beginning, the goal is being of maximum service to those around us, our family members, our co-workers, our wives and husbands, our children...it's just at some point I learned that meant being good to me as well, taking care of my mind, body and soul as well, if I am broken or self centered I'm unhappy and of no use to anyone.
Thanks for your thoughtul reply Lin.
Think we're on the same page -- for me, working steps means, actually guarantees, no booze today. No booze today and working the steps then means I can try and start to do the good things. Sobriety through the steps -- to me -- is an essential pre-condition of then being able to do good things, at least meaningfully. :)
LinBabaAgo-go wrote:I heard once that anyone you see in the rooms is doing the best they can, the absolute best they can, and that is deserving of my respect no matter what their proogram looks like, whether they are golden slippers or unhealthy or in a messed up relationship, it. just. doesn't. matter. to. me.
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You're happy being "Bari-Bari Fat" right on, more power to you, I'd totally give you a hug and accept you for who you are, you'd NEVER have to defend or explain your decisions to me.
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Well one thing you certainly do well here is backpedal and I always get a kick out of it. As to being fat, I don't believe in euphemisms and it's just what it is. If I don't drink today, I will wake up sober, but there is absolutely nothing - nothing - I can do today that will cause me to wake up skinny tomorrow. I can question my HP all I want about why can I stay sober, but I can't drop another 50 lbs to get where I want to be, but there's nothing I can do about yesterday. I don't know if being fat is a fair comparison to alcoholism or not. There are some things that are similar and many others that are very different. Personally, I don't consider 20 lbs over ideal weight to be fat. I'd love to be there. And if you've never been more than 20 over, then I guess you're a "high bottom fatty" LOL.
Sobriety gives me a chance to improve myself in other ways. Although I'm told that if you just drink whisky and don't eat the pounds just melt away... LOL. Never tried it. I drank beer and got the munchies. I think if you take all of the addictions and obsessions out there, there's more scorn and judgment against fat people than everybody else put together. Alcoholics, druggies, OCD, bi-polar... oh, those are treatable diseases. But fat, that's just a choice - fat people love being fat and stuffing their faces and sneering at skinny people who eat bird seed. Riiiiight. It's the last frontier of tolerance. Even our illustrious skinny President and his skinny wife sneer at fat people... we upset the numbers in his healthcare plan, which will only work if he can force us to get skinny even if it means banning the foods that make us fat. All the while he runs outside for a cigarette. LOL. Even the most libertarian, freedom-loving people have a sarcastic comment up their sleeves when it comes to the fatties. And we fatties go along with it, we bob our heads in agreement as to how bad and unhealthy we are, we buy the whole guilt lock stock and barrel, vow to try harder so we'll be able to go shop with our friends at the regular clothing store... fail again... and beat ourselves up again.
I haven't given up, but I sure have given up beating myself up. Whatever course I take, it will be what feels right to me. You can't tell me anything about health and fat that I don't already know. Certainly you've run into the alcoholic who can quote the Big Book chapter and verse, and make spot-on commentary on any topic - with booze on his breath. That's me. I can tell you everything bad about the pizza I just ordered. I'm an expert. I joke about being a middle aged fat guy because people so often want to pull punches. My dentist is telling me "Blood pressure.... high cholesterol... diabetes... all of those things go hand in hand with sleep apnea". I laughed out loud and said all of those things - including sleep apnea - go hand in hand with "middle aged fat guy". He and his assistant both winced, but it's the fucking truth. Remember what Bill said in the Big Book... when an alcoholic has absolutely no defense, no explanation for taking the first drink. That's me, and food. I'm VERY grateful that I weigh 235 now, and not 292 like I did 7 years ago. Maybe that's all I get. I'm at least able to stay put and not gain it back.
In the mean time... sobriety is not drinking, and having a decent chance at a decent life and humbly asking him to remove every defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to my fellows. I say that every day, and I guess I must still be useful as a fat guy. I probably don't ever get to know exactly how, and if I ever find myself not a fat guy, I'll give thanks and accept it as the gift that it will be, and try to be useful some more.
I've been "best friends" with the same person for 30 yrs now. We were 4 when we shared the broken heart plastic necklace that we got from the gumball machine for a dime.
She just had gastric bypass surgery. She was always chunky, even at 4, got really fat after having a couple kids, thinned down through diet and lots of exercise, but couldn't maintain the 2 hrs a day workout after she injured her leg and was not walking for a couple months. Got SUPER morbidly obese during that time really fast - then had the surgery and now she's smaller than me. I'm about 30 lbs over weight still at 5' 9''. I carry it in the worst place, around my gut.
Anyway - she has this surgery and gets really skinny, and it's one of those people I've been claiming my whoooooooooooole life is "just going to be on the heavier side - big boned - bad genes - etc" But it wasn't true. It was portion sizes all along - she must have hid most of it from me all her life. : ( Just like I hid the booze from her after I was around 25 or so. She wore her booze. I'll never know the pain of that I guess.
So we both went into recovery around the same time - I don't over drink anymore - she doesn't over eat anymore - and we're both doin our programs. I'll tell you what. She's a new old friend. That's the only way to put it. It's like we never even knew each other. Without all the competition, jealously, one upping, snickers and gossip - we have nothing left but friendship - and it's like meeting for the first time, but we're still us - and we have our lifetime of experiences together. It's really freakin amazing how this program, and other 12 step programs blow everything else outta the water... all the diets... all the doctors... wow
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
LinBabaAgo-go wrote:I heard once that anyone you see in the rooms is doing the best they can, the absolute best they can, and that is deserving of my respect no matter what their proogram looks like, whether they are golden slippers or unhealthy or in a messed up relationship, it. just. doesn't. matter. to. me.
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You're happy being "Bari-Bari Fat" right on, more power to you, I'd totally give you a hug and accept you for who you are, you'd NEVER have to defend or explain your decisions to me.
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Well one thing you certainly do well here is backpedal and I always get a kick out of it. As to being fat, I don't believe in euphemisms and it's just what it is. If I don't drink today, I will wake up sober, but there is absolutely nothing - nothing - I can do today that will cause me to wake up skinny tomorrow. I can question my HP all I want about why can I stay sober, but I can't drop another 50 lbs to get where I want to be, but there's nothing I can do about yesterday. I don't know if being fat is a fair comparison to alcoholism or not. There are some things that are similar and many others that are very different. Personally, I don't consider 20 lbs over ideal weight to be fat. I'd love to be there. And if you've never been more than 20 over, then I guess you're a "high bottom fatty" LOL.
Sobriety gives me a chance to improve myself in other ways. Although I'm told that if you just drink whisky and don't eat the pounds just melt away... LOL. Never tried it. I drank beer and got the munchies. I think if you take all of the addictions and obsessions out there, there's more scorn and judgment against fat people than everybody else put together. Alcoholics, druggies, OCD, bi-polar... oh, those are treatable diseases. But fat, that's just a choice - fat people love being fat and stuffing their faces and sneering at skinny people who eat bird seed. Riiiiight. It's the last frontier of tolerance. Even our illustrious skinny President and his skinny wife sneer at fat people... we upset the numbers in his healthcare plan, which will only work if he can force us to get skinny even if it means banning the foods that make us fat. All the while he runs outside for a cigarette. LOL. Even the most libertarian, freedom-loving people have a sarcastic comment up their sleeves when it comes to the fatties. And we fatties go along with it, we bob our heads in agreement as to how bad and unhealthy we are, we buy the whole guilt lock stock and barrel, vow to try harder so we'll be able to go shop with our friends at the regular clothing store... fail again... and beat ourselves up again.
I haven't given up, but I sure have given up beating myself up. Whatever course I take, it will be what feels right to me. You can't tell me anything about health and fat that I don't already know. Certainly you've run into the alcoholic who can quote the Big Book chapter and verse, and make spot-on commentary on any topic - with booze on his breath. That's me. I can tell you everything bad about the pizza I just ordered. I'm an expert. I joke about being a middle aged fat guy because people so often want to pull punches. My dentist is telling me "Blood pressure.... high cholesterol... diabetes... all of those things go hand in hand with sleep apnea". I laughed out loud and said all of those things - including sleep apnea - go hand in hand with "middle aged fat guy". He and his assistant both winced, but it's the fucking truth. Remember what Bill said in the Big Book... when an alcoholic has absolutely no defense, no explanation for taking the first drink. That's me, and food. I'm VERY grateful that I weigh 235 now, and not 292 like I did 7 years ago. Maybe that's all I get. I'm at least able to stay put and not gain it back.
In the mean time... sobriety is not drinking, and having a decent chance at a decent life and humbly asking him to remove every defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to my fellows. I say that every day, and I guess I must still be useful as a fat guy. I probably don't ever get to know exactly how, and if I ever find myself not a fat guy, I'll give thanks and accept it as the gift that it will be, and try to be useful some more.
Barisax
Well thank You for taking my inventory, I'm a much improved human being for it
I'm sorry I seem to have touched a nerve, I was only around 50-60 lbs over what I'd consider my "target weight" and I felt exactly what you do, I was getting judgement, being told I was lazy and fat and useless, and I felt lazy fat and useless, I really did, it got into my head, but I kept gaining weight and I couldn't figure out why.
The point of my thread was "What does Sobriety mean to YOU?" and I explained what my sobriety means to me, and am interested in hearing other peoples responses because we are all different, this summed it up perfectly for me I thought:
Such a big part of this program for me is walking into a room full of people I have ONE HUGE MAJOR thing in common with. Alcoholism. From there, meeting people with similar interests, similar goals and ways of looking at things, has been a great joy before/after meetings, and here on this discussion board. For the first time ever, I can become friends with people - real friends. I do this, by talking about my life, my sobriety, my family, my health, my hair etc. Other people seem to do the same, and unlike in the rest of the world - even the people I have NOTHING in common with, I have ONE HUGE MAJOR thing in common with still. It's really neat. I love it. Getting to hear other peoples viewpoints - the way others view sobriety - what it means to them, what it doesn't - it's all part of it.
I learn the most it seems, from the people who disagree with me entirely! But only here in AA did I finally learn to see people as just that. People. Individual people who are different from me, and that's okay for the first time ever. People who make mistakes, spout off just like me, love and support - just like me, and some people who are just nothing but an inspiration every moment I see them, but then all of a sudden aren't... and I'm not devastated anymore!!! It's just fine with me! They have a fresh start tomorrow - they grow and change every day - JUST LIKE ME! So I keep coming back, to see what's what, cuz the constant growth is amazing. And people I think are my enemy today, are the people who save my life tomorrow, and some days I get to not even think about who's who... it's just a whole new level... and some days I suck, and so do you... to me. But I love you all just the same when I really know what a gift all of this stuff is.
I'm literally not judging, nor do I care how much you or anyone else weighs, nor how skinny you are, nor how much money you have or who you your daddy is or who you are banging...I don't care, my question stands, "what does Sobriety mean to YOU?" not to be told what my sobriety means to me, and be judged because you don't like what I have to say, you know?
If you want to make this about weight loss and diet and judgements and bring politics into it, that's cool, that's up to you, I can share my experience though, since I did the same thing, I thought I knew everything about losing weight and I still couldn't figure out why I kept gaining weight until I gave up wheat because I thought I might be gluten intolerant or maybe had celiac disease, when I gave up wheat my belly got flat in 3 days, I lost a boatload of weight in a month, 8 months later I ran across this that matched my experience exactly:
Maybe it will be helpful to you, it was incredibly helpful to me, and believe it or not I DO wish you well, and the fact I welcome all different viewpoints isn't backpedaling to me, it's we are all different people, and what works for me might not work for you and vice versa, and what makes you happy might not make me happy, I'm totally cool with that, not a whole lot different then one's religious viewpoints, I came in a rabid anti-Christian and now I can find love and tolerance both for and from the Christians in the rooms and we can totally follow what we are saying although I am couching terms in Taoist/Buddhist terms while they couch things in Christian terms, we are saying basically the same thing but using different language, I feel the same way about MY Sobriety, it's mine, it's not yours, and your sobriety is yours, and it works for you, I don't need you to have the same sobriety or values as me, I don't...I really don't, it also gives the newcomers choices, we tell them to find someone who "has what they want" and then get that person to sponsor them, not everyone in the room has what I want and vice versa, that's cool.
Like I heard my first week in Sobriety, "I don't have to like you...as a matter of fact I probably DON'T like you, but I have to love you...and I have to answer the phone if you call"
That's just how and who I am, and I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of it or me, I'm here to save my life, and in turn save others lives, could be a number of newcomers read this thread, and out of them something you said touches a chord with someone who has been too afraid to approach anyone and approaches you and asks for help, or maybe it's something I said, or Sasha said, or Pink, or Steve, if anything anyone one of says touches a chord with anyone reading this, we've done good work for the day, all of us...
It's all good...it really is
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Meanwhile - a newcomer stops in here at MIP and I fail to notice or welcome her, cuz I'm more interested in me again : ( Who's the most important person??? What DOES my sobriety mean to me???
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Lin, Good topic and good power of example. Brought up a lot of good points. Of course we become more health and get better rest via just not drinking, for new people I think the "easy does it" is appropriate when it comes to making too many changes at once.
Sobriety is my #1 priority, without it, I know all that is good in my life will collapse. I think people usually lose sobriety well before they pick up a drink, the spiritual condition suffers via a number of different causes.
1)Taking credit their for sobriety, (chest pounding) they no longer think they need their meds (AA program, steps, fellowship)
2)Self Pity
Are the big ones.
When we start to like ourselves and start to live a life of character in accordance to our values, and we maintain our spirtitual condition the alcohol problem will be removed.
I did start exercising reguarly soon afer getting sober, it was a natural with the extra energy I had. Quit smoking (5yrs sober). Quit working so f##ing much (10 yrs sober). (20 yrs) Improved my diet, I try to eat mostly fruits and vegetables in natural form, very little meat, dairy, processed flour and sugars probably 80% of the time.
I do splurg with the occasional pizza or doughnuts (my weakness), and on holidays. I keep it reasonable and don't kill myself....I'm 52 this is starting to look more like a marathon these days LOL. Mind, body and spirit....
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Before I read the plethora of responses, lest my first response be colored by other's opinions, my first reaction to this question---'what does sobriety mean to you?". The two major things that leapt into my head are 1) Life and 2) service. My sobriety allows me to live, really live. And in gratitude for that gift of life, it is incumbant (sp) upon me to offer that gift to others. If just one time in my entire life, I can say one thing that keeps a person coming back to meetings, or offers them hope? Well, it's the gift that keeps on giving. Of course, along with that there are practicing the steps, working on my spirituality so that I don't fall backwards into past behaviors, but yeah. Service. Service to myself, service to others. Ok, NOW I can read all the replies :). Excellent question! chris
Freedom...Thats one I remember well. Waking up one morning free of fear and saying with a smile even before the shower, clean clothes and a tasty breakfast, "Free at last...Free at last...Thank God I'm free at last!! Thanks for checking in Bill and for the memory.
Sobriety to me means 'New Life' ... a life I never knew possible ... a life where all things are possible ... a life I look forward to instead of just tolerating or loathing ...
I still cannot believe that I fought the AA 'way of life' for so long ... I did not want to commit to AA, no way ... NOW, I can't see any other 'way of life' for me ... the fear of change held me back for so long I thought life had lost all meaning and purpose ... Glad I stuck around long enough for the miracle to happen ... what a wonderful life it is indeed ... to enjoy fresh air, good food, good friendship, the wonders of nature and all creation ... Big change from all the 'blackouts' I lived through ... to invite God 'in' rather than denying He/She exists ...
Love you guys and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
