One of the most deadly problems of this disease is that the ego (which is where it lives) loves to compare ourselves to others.
If someone we know isn't doing well or goes into pain, the alcoholic ego can sometimes feel inflated by their pain, as in, "Well at least I'm doing better than her."
We have to be very watchful for this type of thinking for a number of reasons.
Some of us will secretly enjoy the other person being in pain and we'll walk around in the world with our heads just a little higher. And there are some vicous folks who will actually do things to add to someone's pain, i.e. gossip, snubbing, etc.
In addition to these thoughts and actions being a moral problem and breaking principles, we can never make anything real of stealing someone else's power, which is exactly what this is. The ego (illness) loves to be fed, and then we go around with our heads held a little higher, but we always get ourselves into trouble with it, and in many ways. And then when the trouble comes back through an entirely different set of circumstances, we can't even remember what our original crimes were against that person who was suffering.
So not only will anything we get from someone else's pain be only temporary, the alcoholic can't handle that kind of power.
Anything real we feel that is good must come from our own hard work and a willingness to do the program of recovery, the whole thing, and keep doing it too.
Compassion (heart) should be the only thing we feel when someone else is suffering. Never let the ego get in everyone's way!
-- Edited by odat on Saturday 15th of September 2012 06:55:27 AM
Wow. Just because someone is doing well doesn't mean they will snub or gossip or hurt another person. Doesn't mean they could ever hold there head up higher than other. Are we not allowed to feel for the person or children? And by feel I mean our hearts go out to them honestly. And the comparison was merely to be glad that I have found a clear head without alcohol. That I am grateful to be sober and going strong that I used to be that person and I am not any more. Never once did a condesending thought cross my mind. Posistive thinking not all that negativity.............................................................................................sad
- My point was that feeling as though we're doing well shouldn't come from another persons' failure. - Yes. Feeling compassion for someone is the right emotion. - Sincere gratitude without comparing to others is a right emotion too.
Good for you if that's how you felt. The truth about this illness is very sad indeed - yes. So understanding it to its depths is important.
Whatever keeps you sober is an improvement alias - Don't question yourself.
When I see drunk people whose lives are out of control now, I feel sorry for them. Do I judge them? I dunno. The saying is "Don't judge if you haven't walked in my shoes?" I guess most of us think we have walked in those shoes so it's okay to say "That used to be me and I am glad it's not."
Even in the rooms, there are people who clearly do NOT have what I want. They become my silent sponsors (in that I try not to gossip about them) but it's a reminder to me to stick to what I do want and what path not to go down.
It's hard to distinguish feeling superior to others from feeling superior to the version of myself that I used to be. I do feel superior to the version of me that I used to be and I hope that's okay. It feels like self-esteem to me and not being cocky.
Odat, you have posted so many times about being hurt by gossip and others feeling superior to you that I gotta wonder how much it's YOUR issue. At the end of the day, people's gossipping and if they feel superior to you - Who cares? You can't control that so why be hurt by it? Let it go.
You've given me awesome feedback and you do know what you are talking about - not discrediting you, but I wonder if this is a sticking point for you.
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Comparing myself to my own growth and getting God-esteem from it is the way i think of it. I also try not to "tell" others what to do (i.e.: "you"), I like to share my thoughts.
There are many ways to try to pull people beneath us. And we all have to keep our eyes on our own papers.
It can get into a hair splitting argument cuz being overly focused on those who put others down and gossip and all that...That is judging, playing victim, and being self-focused. I hate it when I get bothered by others, but ultimately, gossip and people feeling superior happen - I used to get all wound up over it and feel hurt and I would speculate who was saying what about me...I can't do that any more. It didn't work for me.
I always felt less than when I compared myself to others. These days, I don't feel less than. I'm not sure if I feel superior to some, I will try to keep that in check, but it's a huge improvement over feeling that I was the lowest piece of crap in the world.
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I stopped comparing my addiction with others long ago. It just seems better that way. I mean, what's the use in comparing anyway. Am I looking to find fault with their stories as a way of diminishing mine? Please, Lord forgive me. I can't possibly go back two steps unless I'm still in denial, whatever that may mean. And, of course, what better way than through our alter egos.
Comparing ourselves to others is kind of like that, don't you think. So instead of gloating at the expense of others, I've found a more practical solution that seems to work quite well. And it's called humility. The best alternative I've found is to remain humble, even if our ego won't allow that.
It's like becoming catalysis for change instead, that's how I define my role today. But you're right; it does come with a price. Our ego might slip down a few notches, but let's face it; the benefits are endless. I'd rather create a venue for change rather than a wall of separation any day. But that's just me. I hope this helps. Onward...
~God Bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 15th of September 2012 11:40:15 PM
LOL! Pinkchip, you're so reactive. My post this morning was in response to 2 other posts I saw here this morning. Not anything going on in my life at all. We are such funny people!
Someone went off totally in a meeting I was in 2 weeks ago. Evidently it was a friendship gone awry. The person started spouting in a screaming way about what a shame it was how people with "so called sobriety time act like they have no program" and this was because they were ignoring him and not treating him with respect (so he stated). Of course the share was really personalized and it came out with him sounding like a big old victim and martyr. Perhaps the other person or people he was directing it at took heed but I think it just validated that the dude was off kilter and reinforced their behavior towards him. It's been on my mind ever since. So it's not all in relation to you ODAT, it's something that came up in my home group and it was really volatile.
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This is a great topic.. I do try to be mindful of comparing myself to others. I hope that I feel compassion towards others as opposed to feeling superior in any way. I have, however, overheard openly discussed gossip within the program.. Usually before or after meetings, and this talk really only makes me want to stay away from the gossipers. Some people are still in high school in their mentality. It makes me sad. It also makes a newcomer somewhat leery of some in the program. I actually switched to a different meeting because of gossip that I had overheard about other members of the group... I thought we were all in this together? Was my feeling. I just choose to not be around people who get enjoyment out of putting others down, or airing their dirty laundry. One guy at this particular meeting (that I no longer attend- switched to another) kept asking for my last name, my sponsers last name, where I lived, worked, what bars i used to hang at, has shown up to my restaurant a number of times asking why I don't attend meeting anymore, questioning my commitment to the program- all in an attempt to ' get the dirt' on me. Its ridiculous, and a prime example of how NOT to work the program. I don't look down on these people or anything, I just choose to not partake because it does nothing for me, or anyone in the program. Live and let live.
Mr. David wrote "I'd rather create a venue for change rather than a wall of separation..." This is my thought for the day. Maybe the whole week! Thank you all for a thought provoking thread; I saw myself in several places.
-- Edited by Isabell on Monday 17th of September 2012 07:22:59 AM
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'The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.' -William Faulkner
Odat... are you judging Mark by calling him "so reactive". Is that doing exactly what your original post in this thread was saying not to do? I'm confused? What is the difference between these things. I wish you could see my face and hear my voice, because I'm not trying to attack you, or defend Mark - I'm just trying to figure things out because I'm having trouble deciphering my own reactions here... and I love you all, so please explain... no hard feelings okay?
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Or how about this one, this one's my favorite...you and I have a silent understanding between us that we hate the same person...there's a joy and a comraderie between us. I put on my innocent act and say, "Not to gossip or anything but did you hear..." and you say, "Oh no, we're not gossiping, sometimes things need to be said..." like so we can protect each other from the big bad wolf. I have then just very effectively used you to validate myself and I give you a piece of the action as well...then we tell each other we're friends but really we're just using each other and CALLING it friendship.
Or how about this one, this one's my favorite...you and I have a silent understanding between us that we hate the same person...there's a joy and a comraderie between us. I put on my innocent act and say, "Not to gossip or anything but did you hear..." and you say, "Oh no, we're not gossiping, sometimes things need to be said..." like so we can protect each other from the big bad wolf. I have then just very effectively used you to validate myself and I give you a piece of the action as well...then we tell each other we're friends but really we're just using each other and CALLING it friendship.
Love that one.
This disease is so funny sometimes!
Odat - I have done this, and I have also bought into the drama when someone else approached me with gossip. I work hard not to fall into this pit and rarely does anyone approach me to gossip these days because I rarely participate. Glad for the reminder.
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'The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.' -William Faulkner
That's the ticket Isabell! I try to keep very watchful of my ego (step 10). We can go very far when our motives are right and we keep our own house in order. The people I have in my life today in AA wouldn't entertain gossip for anything! We won't throw our principles away!
Odat... are you judging Mark by calling him "so reactive". Is that doing exactly what your original post in this thread was saying not to do? I'm confused? What is the difference between these things. I wish you could see my face and hear my voice, because I'm not trying to attack you, or defend Mark - I'm just trying to figure things out because I'm having trouble deciphering my own reactions here... and I love you all, so please explain... no hard feelings okay?
Good question. I was wondering the same.
Pappy, you're right. I changed the avatar.
I tried to load a cucumber avatar. But it wouldn't take . . .damndest thing.
I can find many ways to validate myself...I could round up or join the troops or become part of a clique...today I choose to be happy rather than right...I ask myself how I can use this as an opportunity to grow. It's good stuff if you're willing...
