I'm genuinely asking. Why do NA and AA rival? Their sybling programs. I'm pretty sure that in the steps themselves, there is only one word change. Do AA and NA rival in your neck o the woods? And what state/providence do you live in? (that's obviously optional by the way) I live in pa and NA and AA are so "at odds" it's ridiculous. Aren't we all just living one day at a time trying to clear our minds, develop a relationship with an hp and do the next right thing?

At 3:00 minutes in he talks about aa is for alcohol. That's cool. But why does NA say that alcohol is a drug, but AA is like "it's ALCOHOLICS anonymous for a REASON" I'm all for in the 30s, alcohol was the "drug of choice" and also other substances not as popular, but... Now that it's 2012... Drugs are way more prevalent than they were in the 30s. I'm not saying to combine the two... There should be separate programs. But do they have to HATE each other so much? A program that gets you sober/clean is a program that's good right???

Hi Neo, ... ...

I remember one rehab I went to used to take us off site one night for an AA meeting then the next night to an NA meeting ... they kept alternating the meetings ... I don't think it was very successful because we came back sometimes more screwed up than when we went ... We were a mix of Alcoholics, Drug Addicts, AND Alcoholic/Drug Addicts combined ... ... ...

It didn't take more than a couple of meetings to realize that the Alkies wanted to deal only with other Alkies and the Druggies only wanted to deal with other Druggies ... and the poor souls left to 'dual addictions' were pretty much left in the cold ... I actually thought it was a lot like a big 'Race' issue ...

Over the years, I have seen some groups have big problems with this issue and then other groups have developed a lot of "TOLERANCE" and get along with others just fine ... You see, on one hand we have 'old timers' that go strictly by the book, especially Traditions 3 and 5 ... and only desire to allow topics and discussions only when it deals with alcohol ... then we have some groups that consider alcohol and drugs in the same bucket ... meaning these are "mind altering" substances and should be treated the same ... especially when it comes to recovery ...

Me personally?, I think if a person has a dual addiction or a single addiction to a mind altering substance, then they should be welcome to both programs but for simplicity, consider that alcohol is the basis for our recovery discussions when it is an AA meeting and that Narcotics is the basis for discussions in NA meetings ... ... those of us who have dual addictions should certainly be able to identify with either group then ... just limit our discussions to the type addiction the meeting is all about ... ...

Both Drugs AND Alcohol:

Destroys lives and homes

Costs some of us everything we have

Causes us to abuse children and spouses

is Spiritually Bankrupting

Will cause us to lie, cheat, and steal to support our habit

Will rob us of our Health

Will enslave us

ETC.

So why can we not work together to solve our common problem ??? ... ... ... The solution is based on spiritual principles in both programs and the result is the same ... A new way of thinking and living life, one day at a time ...

God Bless,
Pappy

You all have brought me even more insight. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

StPeteDean wrote:

---

Neophyte, I wouldn't say that this "hate" is a common element, it is not. There are certain individuals and that's it. Maybe this town you're talking about has some bad blood between a couple groups but it's not common. There's mild underlying feelings I think like maybe some AA's feel that NA's aren't as serious about their recovery, and perhaps some NA's resent that. But we're all brothers and sisters. I attend both groups. AA more so but I do go to NA groups and I post on this sites NA board.

---

I have found the structure in aa to me more beneficial than na and also there to be more clean time (sorr aars) in aa but I've also seen AAers that claim 14 15 16 years sober but... Still smoke "recreational" pot (I'm not touching medical use). Does that mean that I cam still abuse adderall and claim "sobriety"?

because we have better teeth and higher earning capability, but they throw better dances and Eric Clapton plays at their conventions

Hi Neo,

Personally I abused both drugs and alcohol which is probably the case for most people. I have never really noticed any type of hate between the 2 programs.

I came to AA at a time where there where very few NA meetings and I got sober with some people who where mostly drug addicts. What I learned from them is the solution is the same for both alkies and addicts. Have respect for the program you are going to. Identify, don't compare.

Don't try to be unique and call yourself anything other that a "addict" in a NA meeting or alcoholic in a AA meeting. Our common welfare comes first, so don't bring attention to yourself by calling yourself anything other than the norm. Once you are at a meeting don't dwell on what you took or drank, It doesn't matter, we are all just trying to stay sober in the solution.

I get what Bill is saying on the video, but I think he is a little off base when he lumps narcotics, sex, gambling, relationship issues all together.

Alcohol and drugs/narcotics have a close relationship, we know now that drug addicts can't drink and Alcoholics can't abuse drugs/narcotics. I can go out and gamble a little or over-eat occasionally and not end up in a jail or hospital.

My 2 cents from experience.... I hope this can help.

Rob

As others as said, there is no rivalry, it just some individuals who make it seem that way. I've personally oftener wondered that NA may of hurt itself by not having a singleness in purpose and just sticking to Narcotics, instead of the drug is a drug thing. The same with meth, come and crack, etc.. It is my personal opinion that an alcoholic and a heroin junkie are two different addictions. That heroin itch is a much bigger beast than the call of alcohol. I thank God the first time I did heroin I od'ed then found myself in the nut house for a week. I never touched the crap after that. I haven't been to an NA meeting in years, but may go back if I can get some free time.

Neophyte wrote:

---

Db-- I dont think that the drugs should be segregated. Lots of people are "garbage heads"-- if I could get my hands on it, I'd use it. Also, I believe that segregation of substances promotes "terminal uniqueness".

---

 I have to say I pretty much agree,  what's next GSA for glue sniffers anonymous.  If we drank or did "whatever" to get out of our heads, and we want to get clean/sober we just need to get over the uniqueness, call ourselves the same thing everyone else does and get with the solution.

I have sponsored guys in AA who where heroin addicts  in their early 20 and late teens.  I actually got on the MIP NA site and asked some questions because I never did heroin.  I just didn't want to do anyone a injustice.  The NA people assured me to just work with them like anyone else....they are still sober.

 

 

Neophyte wrote:

---

StPeteDean wrote:

---

 

Pappy I couldn't have said it any better and feel exactly the same way. However, I fully understand the principals behind "singleness of purpose" and have come almost full circle in that I don't feel that it's wrong any longer. So I keep my mouth shut mostly and do as Dale Carnegie said - "Yield on matters that are of little interest to you" as I'm not interested in being a policy maker or defender. I'm just here to put out my hand out to anyone/ everyone that wants to be clean and sober.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 8th of August 2012 08:05:10 PM

---

 

when you say you've come full circle... Could you elaborate?

---

 I started out being very opposed to AA's "singleness of purpose" as a young alcoholic addict.  Then to being indifferent about it.  Then, through more reading and actually some debates on this site, came to understand it more and tentatively agree without it, on the basis of survival of AA as an organization.  However, on an individual basis I still believe that no addict should be turned away (nor alcoholic from NA) from AA if that person has the desire to be clean and sober.  

Thanks for the replies... Needed reassurance :)

A few key differences between addicts and alcoholics, generally speaking,  used to be, that most drug addicts used illegal drugs.  This produced a a stigmatism, to and about the addict, at the least and arrest/jail time on the other end.  Many addicts wouldn't seek treatment for fear of prosecution.   Not that alcoholics are immune from going to jail, just that it wasn't for buying, selling, or possessing alcohol. This has changed quite a bit, more recently,   as perhaps 50% of drug addicts now are addicted to legal drugs, albeit some of them obtained illegally, but you're not going to jail automatically for a couple prescription pills in your pocket vs. a bag of illegal drugs.    Also drugs tend to be exponentially more expensive than booze, and often this leads to drugs addicts having to sell drugs, sell  themselves, or steal to support their habit. We now have much younger people addicted to drugs, as well as all sorts of folks who never sought out drugs to get high but got addicted via an injury/physical pain.   Of course if alcoholics are unemployed, they'll do what they have to do also.   The foundation of our programs is relating to one another's common experience.  This may be the most important reason for drug addicts to attend NA vs AA.  The strongest reasons (to me) that I've heard center around non-alcoholic drug  addicts, who attended AA only have tended to have a higher failure rate (then those attending NA) and  die perhaps due to feeling like they don't belong, fit in, are unwanted, or just don't relate.  

 

I'm going to change my topic here just a bit.  When I got sober this last time, a large  meeting that I attended, split up and became two AA clubs. The one that I wound up at "The Unity Club" in Falls Church, VA  rented a second story space above a strip of businesses.  They had enough room for three  meeting rooms.  They were forward thinking enough, in 1988 to allow any currently chartered 12 step group to hold their meetings there.  I attended AA, NA, ACA, and Coda meetings there, and many other people did also.   This club grew quickly, rented more space and is now four times the original size.    I can assure you that there were no hard feelings between these groups because many of us were attending multiple groups.  The folks that had some issues either kept them to themselves of steered clear of our club. 

 

Sadly I moved to FL a few years later and I still miss my club.  I go there once a year when I visit, but now I hardly ever see anyone that I used to know there.  The clubs in my part of FL only have AA and maybe Alanon meetings.  I was approached in '94 to contribute money, time, and my remodeling skills to get a new club opened.  I told this key person that I would do it only if  other groups such as NA, ACA, and Coda would be allowed to rent space there, and this wannabe old timer immediately said "That's not going to happen" and I said don't count on me supporting or attending you club.  He had the "All the answers are in the Big Book" and "Singleness of purpose" attitude that so many "old timers"  cling to.  This is common amongst the clubs here and as a result,  ACA, Coda  are weak if non-existent in this area.  My friend in Tampa, who I sponsor in Coda, started a Coda meeting over there that's doing well. Maybe when I get this house finished I'll start one here.  

 

 

 

 

 

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Saturday 11th of August 2012 06:13:25 AM