Yeah, I hear you Ruhig. I don't struggle with that truism anymore like I once did. My belief today is quite simple actually: I don't second guess my disease anymore, like I used too. That would be a mistake this alcoholic could never afford.
'Let the truth be told' is what I say today, which for this alcoholic means meetings. And plenty of them by the way. That's how I acknowledge my weakness over anything alcohol related before my mind tries to convince me otherwise. Like Pappy said, is all about the much crucial "physic change", that and a better awareness of who we are today, minus the alcohol. It's been my remedy for the alcoholic blues for many years now. So why don't you give that remedy a try.
Coping skills will carry no 'real' weight unless we follow that up with some much needed support, like through sober avenues such as A.A. You can try to cope with life through whatever knowledge base you can, but what happens when life deals us a bad hand? Huh, what then? Will we continue to seek refuge under the not so loving arms of our addictions or do we search for significance elsewhere, like in sober forums such as an A.A. meeting. That's how we put our sobriety to the ultimate test, mind you. Not in the vain yet selfless deceit known as active alcoholism, but in a place where mind over matter doesn't even come close; through sober connections like A.A. It's been my guide and place of refuge regardless of my temperament. And will remain that way, of course, for today.
I know Ruhig; it's not easy convincing ourselves of this know fact, our alcoholism I mean. But it's better to live life sober than to die a miserable drunk. That's how I feel today at least, so how about you? Whatever you decide to do dear, please take this one gem along with you wherever your path may lead: 'An addiction of any sorts cannot be removed by willpower alone; it must be coaxed ever so gently...one step at a time. So coax it dear and the rest will follow, it certainly will. We promise...
-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 7th of July 2012 04:21:41 PM
Some new comers struggle with if they really are alcoholics. Some people don't, they have spent majority of their lives drinking and generally all around mucking things up. In the big book it asks 2 questions: "Two simple questions. Can you quit entirely when you want to quit? Do you have little control over the amount you take, after you once start drinking?"
now, for those who are unsure of themselves, this may be a more difficult question to answer. Because I was 17 when I admitted myself to rehab, I wasn't thinking about stopping drugs, I thought that I could put my life on hold for two months while there, regroup myself and continue to live my life with out mind altering substances.
When I came back into the rooms, I made it a point to clarify that I'm not here to stop using mind altering substances (I have stopped that out of convenience), I came here to learn coping skills. To this day, I don't know if I'm a real alcoholic, I just know that if I use these steps in my life, I will gain coping skills. And if anew comer comes to me and says their on the fence, I give them two answers... The reason I'm personally in the rooms and this-- in order to fit in here, you only have to not want to drink 51%, the other 49% will follow.
So let me ask you this: IN YOUR MIND WHAT DEFINES A REAL ALCOHOLIC?
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sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
Okay, for me? ... ... ... The questions you site from the BB sums it up pretty good ... ... ...
The only way I could quit drinking by myself, was to drink myself into oblivion(binge drinking) ... black out ... suffer incredible withdrawal pains for 2 or 3 days ... then drink lots of juice, eat something and swear to myself to never, EVER do that again ... That's how I stopped drinking before AA ...
If ... no not if, WHEN I thought I could control it this time, I would try a beer in the evening(one 40 oz. was my one beer ...) ... then the next day or two, I'd get 2 just to be sure I could sleep ... then within one week of taking that drink, I was drinking at least as much if not more than when I quit ... AND LET ME TELL YOU THIS ... Like the Dr. Opinion stated, this is repeated over and over until there is a 'complete' psychic change in this person ... and if there isn't, there's little hope of his recovery ...
Not sure this is what you wanted , but so be it ...
Love Ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Well, you're absolutely correct...some newcomers question if they are REAL alcoholics or just had a really bad drinking problem. This kinda ties in with the thread I began this morning, so I'm happy you wrote this.
I relapsed in December around the festive holiday parties and such. I had almost 4 months of sobriety and a head full of AA at the time. My beverage of choice was wine. Harmless, decadent wine in nice wine glasses. My screwed up alcoholic deceitful mind justified in my own voice that I was not really an alcoholic, just had a really bad not normal drinking problem. And now that I had almost 4 months sober, I could handle it normally now. Not!
What a lie that was! What I did learn from it is this..."why yes, you dumbass, you are most definitely alcoholic".
And now I have to start all over again. But...I'm happy to do so. Just have to pull up my big girl panties and stay the course.
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~Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will~
I knew I was Alcoholic, but I couldn't recover until I learned and admitted I was powerless over alcohol. For me, there was a difference. Until I can to AA I though I could live with the drinking and somehow manage the disease.
There are a lot of reasons people end up at AA meetings in our area. I'm friendly to all, some people are ready to take the 1st step and need/want help, if they are not sure, I don't push, just tell them they may or may not be, up to them to decide
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
The "Doctor's opinion" in the BB settled it for me once and for all. And I went out to try some "social drinking." I nearly lose my life this time around. I was too ashamed to go to AA, so I prayed. But nothing happened. God said: "Go back to AA." I got sober, worked the program, saved my family. That was 24 years ago.
I am taking a newcomer to meetings, who is trying to cut down, so I let him try. I cannot convince him. Only alcohol can do that. He might die trying, but that's entirely his own affair. I can only share my experience. I nearly died trying to prove that I am not alcoholic. I would have also delayed my relapse and subsequent death, if I had not taken the 1st step completely. For me trying to work the program without knowing fully what the problem was, was like trying to fix a leaking roof without knowing where the leak was. "I had to concede to my innermost self that I was alcoholic." One was, I could have tried and tried to drink like you used to, trying different methods and the other was to seek spiritual help. I was forced to chose the latter, in the light of my alcoholic condition.
1st off I don't like parsing the language, the word "real" in BB is not emphasized, and it is used to disntiguish between a heavy drinker and an addict. Kind of missing the forest for the trees IMNSHO.
As it is emphasized over and over and over and over and over the intoxicants were a symptom, like a runny nose when I have a cold. The addiction is in my mind, it is how I think and feel.
I used to think an addict was someone whose life improved when they stopped using. That is not the case, that is the heavy drinker. We of the happy life look the same from the outside while we are active. But when the heavy user stops, they move on, their lives generally smooth out with little outside intervention. They don't switch to beer or food or gambling or any of the other toys I used to ruin my life. I see it in my college friends. I mean I was the lightweight. But they all just kind of dropped it like the Justion Bliebler posters will gradually disappear from the tweens walls.
When I stopped using this time (knock wood) after an initial burst of thrilling (pink cloud, you know) I slowly lost my mind, all the while stepping and praying and stacking 500 chairs whenever I had a feeling of any kind. It wasn't until I hit a new and improved sober bottom that I grasped this.
I think that is when I really surrendered. Not to my disease or any other lofty concept. I dumped the itinerary I had for my life. I thought had to have lots of money to be happy, I did not. I thought I had to have the girl of my dreams, I did not. I thought as long as I did everything right I would be ok. I was wrong. I had to abandon ideas like good, bad, right, wrong, want, get, have and live in this moment alone.
I wanted to add, harobed, that I'm sorry for your poor experience and that your persistence is admirable.
You are very kind to say this Ruhig, but it's not me who deserves the credit! The only credit I'll accept is that I have a profound willingness. I want those Promises. And I am willing to go to any lengths.
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~Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will~
A real alcoholic? Troubled me for about three months, then I sorta decided that if I wasn't a real alcoholic, then why couldn't I satisfy myself with half a beer, or a taste of wine, or a sip of scotch. Why, once I took the first mouthful, did I crave the next and the next and the next.......
But that's just the physical part.
If i wasn't a real alcoholic, why was my thinking so maladjusted, why did I believe with every fibre of my being, that the world owed me, that I had all the answers, that none of them were right, that if only people did what I wanted we'd be halfway to a better life, that I could control everything, that I couldn't remember my life, that I used people - what's in it for me???? that I genuinely thought EVERYONE was out to get me, use me, trick me, fool me, that everything was competitive, that i had to be right even when I was wrong, that my life revolved around this drink, the last drink and the next drink, no matter how much time elapsed between them....
but that's the mental part........
If I wasn't a real alcoholic - why did I firmly believe that I was the most important, most powerful, most omnipotent person in my life. I was my own God and not only that I was yours too, that I didn't want or need anyone's help.....
but that's just the spiritual......
for me, just for me, the proof that I was and still am a real alcoholic, is not about how far down I went, not about how much or how often I drank, not about the consequences of my drinking.
It's all about how I felt, how much pain I willingly tolerated, how much i loathed myself, how much I thought I was worhtless, how screwed my personal values were, how I believed that i had to be top dog, because that made you less, how much I believed I was a thoroughgoing shit.
It was about all three parts above, the physical, the mental, the spiritual.
Now there are lifelong consequences to my behaviours as an active, functioning, drinking alcoholic, which may never be eased, but today, with the help of the 12 steps, with the support of the fellowship and with a desire and an ability to change, I can live with myself. It took a massive rock bottom in sobriety to get me to the start line of my new life, to get me to realise that all the good stuff I buried inside me is exactly the stuff I admire in others and bugger me, I have all that too and it's GOOD, and i let it out. I'll be vulnerable, I'll be kind, I'll be generous, I'll be thoughtful, I'll be patient, I'll be tolerant, I'll see and appreciate beauty, peace, tranquility, I'll be true to myself.....
I'll be imperfect, i'll make mistakes, I'll learn from them, i'll try not to repeat them, I'll probably repeat them until i learn the lesson, I'll ask for help, I'll give my help, I'll try not to depair, (I sometimes still do), I'll talk about stuff but I'll not broadcast it far and wide.
I've found some sort of Higher Power, a God of my understanding and i'll try to get a better understanding of that God......and I'll be forever grateful to Fr. J who explained to me that religion and churches and all that stuff are tools that i can use to find God and that God is in me, comes wiht me wherever I am, knows my hearts desires, doesn't punish me but lets me punish myself so i can learn from my mistakes.
Is there a heaven, is there a hell, I don't know, but I feel as though I have been through Hell on Earth and now I know what Bad is i can recognise what Good looks like and work towards a better life.
Thank you for this thread, thank you for an easy oppertunity to start my day well, thank you for this oppertunity to do a written step 1.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
I've been crawling in and out of a bottle for 40 years.
DUI? Never had one (praise the Lord) but there have been hundreds, maybe thousands of times I should have. I was so drunk last weekend I nearly wrecked my truck 3 times driving the 5 miles home.
I told myself the next morning. That's it, I'm done drinking (again)! I lasted 4 days...
This time, the craving is so strong. This time I'm drinking BEFORE I go to work and afterwards. This time I know I'm out of control (again) but instead of pulling myself up by the bootstraps and putting it away to come back another day, I don't seem to be able to stop it.
So.... am I an alcoholic in the medical definition of the word? Don't know, don't care. I just know I feel powerless over my own actions right now.
Hi grayduchess, ... ... ...
In AA, the 1st step is:
1.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
Only you can make the decision whether you control alcohol or it controls you ... I could not, and most of those here on this site came to the same conclusion ... The solution to your situation is here and in the rooms of AA ... And you are welcome to join us ...
God Bless,
Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Thursday 12th of July 2012 07:23:15 PM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I am one of those newcomers sitting on the fence. I'm not struggling with it. It's not troubling me. All I know (I think all I need to know) is drinking is becoming a real problem for me and I don't seem to be able to control it. I've said for many years I have "alcoholic tendencies". I've been crawling in and out of a bottle for 40 years.
"I can quit when I decide to" and I have... for a time. I've lost count of the number of times I've "quit". Can I drink just one beer/glass of wine? Yep, I've done it many times. DUI? Never had one (praise the Lord) but there have been hundreds, maybe thousands of times I should have. I was so drunk last weekend I nearly wrecked my truck 3 times driving the 5 miles home. Stupid, stupid, stupid... I told myself the next morning. That's it, I'm done drinking (again)! I lasted 4 days...
This trip inside the bottle is different and frankly, it's scaring the hell out of me. This time, the craving is so strong. This time I'm drinking BEFORE I go to work and afterwards. This time I know I'm out of control (again) but instead of pulling myself up by the bootstraps and putting it away to come back another day, I don't seem to be able to stop it. The bottle is singing ever so sweetly to me even now as I sit here sipping ice tea and telling myself I DO NOT need to drink today. I've never been here before and all I know is I don't want to be here now. So.... am I an alcoholic in the medical definition of the word? Don't know, don't care. I just know I feel powerless over my own actions right now.
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You can't change where you've been, you can only change where you're going
Grayduchess - my suggestion is to get to an AA meeting TODAY. That bottle that is singing ever so sweetly is = obssessive thoughts, the progression of alcoholism.
I wish I could reach through this computer and hug you right now, and then I'd drive you to a meeting. For right now, try not to decipher whether or not you are an alcoholic, focus more on the powerlessness you feel. You are at Step One..."We admitted we were powerless over alcohol".
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~Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will~
I looked at your profile, Grayduchess, and saw that you live in Pittsburg. Here's the Intergroup Office phone number and website to find a meeting, and perhaps even a phone call to see if someone might be able to come pick you up and take you!
PLEASE come back and let us here at MIP know how you are with an update!
Pittsburgh Alcoholics Anonymous Pittsburgh Area Central Office, Inc. 900 Fifth Ave. 5th Floor Pittsburgh, PA 15219 Phone: (412) 471-7472 Fax: (412) 471-7476 www.aapa11.org
Includes AA meetings for Bridgeville, Carnegie, McDonald, Mckees Rocks,Oakdale and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
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~Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will~
I think a meeting would be a good idea....This is a copy of the Big Book of AA....Read the Doctor's Opinion....It gives you a good idea why we drink like we do...Also the first 103 pages of the book deal with the 12 steps...Pages 1 through 43 are devoted to step one. This book is what AA is all about.
The whole "I made it four days" thing - was exactly me. In the last year, I was doing a 2 days off, one day on regimen. (who does this?) That was after I couldn't make it the 4 days anymore. It went from - not really keeping track - to keeping track of how many days per week - to keeping track of how many days in between... just got more and more really really fast... I hope you can make it to a meeting. It's probably not fun anymore is it?
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Deborah - thanks for the info Stepchild - thanks for the link Just - no, it sure isn't fun anymore Pappy - thank you, your words made the tears well up
Well... I didn't make it to a meeting and I didn't manage to resist the bottle's siren song BUT today is a new day and I'm going to try it again. I'm going to keep trying until I get it right DAMMIT. I've always been everybody's big sister. I'm the one all my friends and family come to for support & sound advice (while never taking my own advice, of course) I'm the voice of reason... for cryin' out loud
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You can't change where you've been, you can only change where you're going
What a great question you ask! "What defines an alcohol?" We come in all shapes and sizes, all cultures and backgrounds... only one can say for themselves if they are one or not. I know I am! I'm an alcohol because it effects my everyday life in a negative way! I cannot, CANNOT simply have just a drink or two like normal people can. I love to run from things, and alcohol is an escape for me. I just stopped dealing with life, and my reality was foggy, and I hated myself each and every morning! Who knows if this makes me one or not, but since I have given up drinking ten days ago, I have to face my demons. A rough road, but a clear one! I haven't cried this much in a long time, but each day I cry, I feel a huge weight has been lifted! I'm facing my problems, and not running away anymore. I feel I'm getting stronger. Do you feel this way when you stop drinking for a while? Are you drinking to celebrate? Or are you drinking to run away from problems? The definition is different for us all I feel! I hope this helps! Stay strong!!!!
So.... am I an alcoholic in the medical definition of the word? Don't know, don't care.
I just know I feel powerless over my own actions right now.
Hi grayduchess, ... ... ... I just wanted to add a little more food for thought here ... to help you determine if you're an alcoholic or not ...
Do you ever hide your drinking? ... you know, slip around a corner, go behind a closed door to get a sip ...
Do you, or have you ever started your day with a drink? ...
Once you've had that 1st drink of the day, do you find ways to have nips throughout the day? ...
Have you ever hidden your beer or bottle from others so they can't monitor your drinking amount? ...
Did you ever have a secret stash, for emergencies? ...
If you have one drink, do you walk away satisfied or feel you must have another and another? ...
When working, or even on a day off, do you think about a time in the day that you'll be able to drink? ... you know, if you're not drinking, do you think about it a lot til you actually get something? ...
If you go 24 hours without a drink, how do you feel? ... do you get little tremors, shakes, ? ... that disappear immediately when you have a drink? ...
Have you ever 'not eaten' just to enhance your 'high' ... ???
These are just a few questions to ask yourself ... and it'll serve you no good if you're NOT HONEST in answering them ...If you said 'yes' to any of these ... there's a very good chance you're one of us ... If so, don't be afraid, be grateful you have come upon a solution to your problems ...
With the right attitude and a little work on your part, you'll have what you're looking for in life ... Get an AA Big Book and start going to meetings ... great things are in store for you ...
Love You and God Bless,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Those of us here for any length of time had to make a decision if we were ready to stop lying to ourselves and others ... and then come to grips with the pain alcohol was causing in our lives ... But just to let you know, a decision must be followed by action ... else 'NOTHING' changes ...
God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I know, Pappy. I'm in action-mode. My greatest enemy right now is myself and I know that too. Never was one to believe anything could be accomplished by INaction. What I have to pay attention to right now is that I don't run in circles, chasing my own tail and tell myself that as long as I'm moving, I'm doing something...
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You can't change where you've been, you can only change where you're going
The only credit I'll accept is that I have a profound willingness. I want those Promises. And I am willing to go to any lengths.