How long do you believe it took before you felt you could move forward after your third step?
I'm not comfortable moving forward yet. I only started actually working a program last week. And yesterday I had this epiphany, like understading the "I can't, he can, let him". I understood that intellectually before, but yesterday I understood it in a 'recovery' sort of way. In a spiritual? Sort of way? Idk, in a way that is different than intellectually understanding.
But it's only been a week. How can one truely comprehend the first 3 in seven days?
In your experience, how long did it take you to work your first 3?
I did have 2 years and change before my relapse, so I'm aware that I can not use substances to fix me. But I feel like there should be time for practical application of this trinity before I move on.
Went to a meeting today. And the people sharing today leaned more or less on what confirmed them as alcoholics.
But I'm sure it was just 4 days ago I was stealing. That doesn't seem like I should move on yet.
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sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
So did you have 2 yrs sober with out the AA program?
I can't give you any help on the steps, as I have just as much to learn as you probably... but I would say you would feel in your heart if you're ready to do a meaningful search.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Yeah, I did it with out the program. I didn't come to the program because of my relapse, I did it cause my brain hates me. All the self depricating thoughts drive me in this time. I can't honestly say that at 18 I was willing to admit anything other than addict or not, using substances was not helping my case. This time around I know I'm an alcoholic, and today apparently I asked for an opportunity to test my third step skills, and HP definitely gave me a run for my money.
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sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
How long to move forward After the third step ??? .... ... ... For me? ... Immediately ... BUT, it took me a long time to do step three properly ...
I had a hard time 'turning myself' over to God ... ... It was only possible when I came up with a solid 'concept' of God, that I could live with, then I had this unusual feeling come over me ... like everything coming together for the first time ... when that happened, I was able to 'totally surrender' myself, my will, to a God of my understanding ... That, my friend, opened the door to finish the remaining 12 steps ... which I found myself eager to do ...
Hope that helps, and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The point at which I knew I had actually taken the third step, was when I had finished my fourth. As Pappy says, I moved forward immediately. And that is the instruction in the Big Book. The third step is merely a decision and while some experience an "effect", many don't. I always puzzled over this but I realised I am not going to receive a heavenly text "received, one will and one life. Thanks God" The proof was in my changed attitude about actually doing God's will, not mine, and what could be further from my will? Step 4!
So the book says, after having taken this decisions " Next we launched on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal house cleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was a vital and crucial step. it could have little permanent effect unlessAT ONCE followed by a strenuous effort to face and be rid of the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to cause and conditions.
Therefore we started on a personal inventory. This was step four."
Key words: next, vigorous, at once, strenuous, face,be rid of. Some interperet these words as "easy does it", but the original 100 that wrote the book were talking about what actually works based on their collective experience. If taking it easy was effective, they would have written that, but it isn't.
Further on in the steps the book talks about feeling the nearness of our creator for the first time, after step 5. It is not required to have any kind of "God consciousness" at step three, or as a result of step 3 done "correctly". Remember the spritual awakening occurs as the (singular) result of all 12 steps, not the first three.
Of course there is always another way of looking at it. I have just started working with a pigeon who has been sober for a few months through counselling, and now wants to try the AA way. He thought he was on step 3, but when we sat down and reviewed step one - which must be 100% - we found there was work still to be done. This young man is honest and willing, but says he still harbours a faint hope that he might oneday be able to drink safely. Until that delusion is smashed, we can't move beyond step one. Maybe at 7 days Ruhig, it will be wise to make sure of step one before anything else. On the other hand, Doctor Bob did the equivalent of our first 9 steps on his first day, and was out looking for alcoholics to help on the second day. And look what resulted from that.
The point at which I knew I had actually taken the third step, was when I had finished my fourth. As Pappy says, I moved forward immediately. And that is the instruction in the Big Book. The third step is merely a decision and while some experience an "effect", many don't. I always puzzled over this but I realised I am not going to receive a heavenly text "received, one will and one life. Thanks God" The proof was in my changed attitude about actually doing God's will, not mine, and what could be further from my will? Step 4!
So the book says, after having taken this decisions " Next we launched on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal house cleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was a vital and crucial step. it could have little permanent effect unlessAT ONCE followed by a strenuous effort to face and be rid of the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to cause and conditions.
Therefore we started on a personal inventory. This was step four."
Key words: next, vigorous, at once, strenuous, face,be rid of. Some interperet these words as "easy does it", but the original 100 that wrote the book were talking about what actually works based on their collective experience. If taking it easy was effective, they would have written that, but it isn't.
Further on in the steps the book talks about feeling the nearness of our creator for the first time, after step 5. It is not required to have any kind of "God consciousness" at step three, or as a result of step 3 done "correctly". Remember the spritual awakening occurs as the (singular) result of all 12 steps, not the first three.
God bless,
Mike H.
There is a line in the 12x12 about the second step where Bill says on hindsight he realized he took it piecemeal, that was my experience with step 3, so how -do- I "turn my will and life over to the care of God as I understand him"?
by doing steps 4-9, that is what taught me how to do step 3, step 3 is a decision, steps 4-9 (to 12) is the actual action of taking step 3
This is just my experience but living without drinking or the spiritual experience that the steps bring is a miserable existence, so I always liked the answer to the question:
When should I work steps 4-9?
as
When do you want to get better?
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I have come to believe like Fyne Spirit said - It can be done at any time, but steps 1 through 3 have to be done right. I have seen many folks trying to do a step 4 with cluttered thoughts and no idea how to let go and let God. If they did steps 1 through 3 thoroughly, they wouldn't need to struggle so hard and it would be such a drama filled trainwreck to do step 4.
It took me a year to get to step 4. I don't think I would recommend others taking that long. I was going to 7 meetings a week and doing service and such that whole first year. Hence, I didn't get drunk from doing the steps slowly because I was right in the middle of the AA. Not going to enough meetings, not getting a sponsor, not changing people places and things are bigger common mistakes that take people out. I do believe you need some sober frame of reference to even recognize your character defects. Otherwise, you are just going to rip yourself with a cloudy mind that hasn't had enough time to achieve clarity.
When should I work steps 4-9? After you are done working steps 1 through 3. Your sponsor should know if you are ready. If you have really had a thorough surrender and are open enough to the idea of turning over your will - you should be able to progress.
Having said all that - I do have to say that my personality and my problems did not change that much until I did steps 4 through 9. I was ready for that change when it happened and I thank my own HP that it all played out just how it was meant to for me. (Of course I'm not a purified angel now and I will always have to work on myself - but steps 4 through 9 gave me some framework for doing that).
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
There is an old timer at one of my meetings who talks about step three. She says, if there are three frogs on a log and one makes a decision to jump off the log, how many frogs are left.
The answer is three. The frog made the decision to jump but hadn't jumped yet. That's what step three seems like to me. You make a choice, but like Lin says above, it's what you do next that makes step three truly come alive. All step three asks you to do is to decide to turn your will over. The actual turning over of the will comes from what you do next.
I also don't think step three is something you just do and it is over. There are so many moments in a day when you choose whether to do it the old way or to be willing to surrender it to your Higher Power. I was able to turn over my drinking quite quickly but still have to work on remembering it all belongs to Him.
Steps 4-12 are the life changers. The question is are you ready for a new life? :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
There is a thing about step 4. The general practice around here (my local AA), to send the pigeon away to write their 4th step on their own. As PC rightly points out this might well result in a jumble, if done too early, and is why many view this step with trepidation. It's a really big ask and is often the biggest stumbling block.
My sponsor taught me the meaning of "we" in the steps. He knew I wasn't capable of doing the fourth on my own, so we spent a day together, with him explaining every deatail as we worked through it, and by the end of the day we had an inventory of my grosser handicaps. The next day, I took the fifth. I didn't know it at the time, but this was how the early AA's did it, some times the sponsor actually wrote the fourth because the pigeon was shaking too much. Often it was done on the back of a business card. And it's hard to argue that this approach wasn't successful. But the important fact for me was that my sponsor and I (we) took this step together.
Thanks everyone, really opened my mind to somethings I hadn't caught before while reading.
I wanted to have some practice, maybe "testing" my willingness to trust my god (my father died of an od when I was 15 so I consider my dad to be my hp).
And I've been having some serious problems at home with my dry drunk fiancée, and I can't control what he does or how he feels, and at times I don't even know if I can control how I feel about how his actions effect our relationship.
So I thought I could just pray for him, but apparently I don't trust John yet to take care of this for me.
So I'm not sure that if I can't yet learn to trust god in other things how I'm gonna trust him in 4-6, let alone 7-9.
Thanks for your input. Helped me see alot that I missed.
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sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
Boy, oh boy, ... ... I'm trying to think of just how I can say this without hurting your feelings ... ... Let's try this !!!
If I found myself in a program to help me recover from a fatal disease, and this program suggested a 'Higher Power' was to be summoned for the purpose of turning 'my will' and 'my life' over to the care of such a 'Higher Power' ... I would have to spend some sober time in thought as to whether I would choose a person to pray to (as my 'higher power') that had, in fact, died of the same illness I have ... I'm just saying that if my 'higher power' had OD'd ... How do I justify this person, or his spirit, as the 'higher power' I need to heal me of my affliction ??? ... ...
Does this make any sense? ... ... ... There's a book that I was given while in rehab a few years ago that assisted me in finding a SOLID 'CONCEPT' of just who God was ... For ME? ... It was THE foundation I needed and helped me to totally accept the program of AA and all it's steps ... It's non-AA material ... It's the last 1/2 of the book 'The Shack' (paperback) ... Don't know if it'll help you, but it sure answered my questions AND made perfect sense ... the program of AA was a piece of cake for me after that ... Cause I was totally able to accept Step 3 ... The decision became easy ... and my prayers began being answered (not always the answer I wanted, but answered none the less) ...
I know you are new ... All I ask is you keep an 'open mind' about these things until you come long enough to experience the miracle ... This is the door to a new life that you've been looking for ...
God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I was fifteen. I have to believe that my dad can still be in my life as the father I knew he could be.
My dad suffered as an alcoholic, so he knows how my brain works. And intellectually it makes sense that he'd be able to "restore my sanity" (on the premis that when one dies, one's conscience changes, and he would be able to see the big picture and still protect me, being his first born and also his first girl)
but, as I read life of pi to try to figure out spirituality, I think I'll try to get my hands on this book you speak of.
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sober: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice
So I thought I could just pray for him, but apparently I don't trust John yet to take care of this for me. So I'm not sure that if I can't yet learn to trust god in other things how I'm gonna trust him in 4-6, let alone 7-9.
If you don't have the trust needed in the HP you are now using look for another. If you wait until you have 100% trust in your present HP chances are you will use again.
Take a serious look at your reasons for not moving on in the steps. It can be very difficult to lay ourselves open and become totally vulnerable to another and as alcoholics and addicts we have avoided and numbed ourselves to any possibility of this happening. Waiting to write your 4th step and take the 5th step prevents you from working the remainder of the steps to their full benifit. We certainly can work steps 6 - 9 first but we won't receive the rewards.
It took me several years to have trust in the concept of God, my higher power, that I have today. When I first came into this program I used my AA group as a higher power. I believed in God but didn't have a relationship with Him. He could and did work through my AA group. I believe that moving on in the steps soon is important. This is not a one and done program. Through working this program I was able to develop the relationship I now have with my HP, if I had waited until perfect I would not have moved on for years. My relationship is still growing. And this is not a program of spiritual perfection but of spiritual progress.
Go read Dean's post - The Promises all of them. And see what is missing from not moving on.
-- Edited by Dan B 76 on Saturday 19th of May 2012 12:37:33 PM
I only wish you the best and am praying for same ... It took me soooo long to get it right ... I hope for you it will be easier ... After all, this is the life I always wanted but always drank away ... What I shared above is simply my experience in working the program ...
Thanks for viewing this with an open mind ... it's not meant to be critical in any way, just a simple observation is all ... (from a drunk, Ha!) ...
Love Ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Great insight everyone. I believe there's a spiritual antidote to everything; the problem is finding that amongst all the clutter. My epiphany was not the earth shattering, Mount Sinai moment where everything was written out on a tablet of stone. It was more like a gradual change that happened over time. I became aware of that need right after I did my first step, and have been in transition mode ever since. The only way I can succeed today, in life and sobriety, is to remain true to that belief in its entirety. Then, I can connect the dots from there. If I never waver from the first step principle, then I'm okay -but only if. How 'we' choose to connect the dots from there is really up to us -but, again, only if 'you' remain sober, period. So please do that Ruhig, for today.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Sunday 20th of May 2012 11:55:05 PM
