A question on tradition one

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

A question on tradition one

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

I went to a "emotional sobriety workshop" a year ago and a big part of the session was how we can integrate the 12 traditions into our personal lives.

I always thought they where mainly "group concepts".

Here is a link, click on Dick A. Emotional Sobriety section.

http://wejoy.org/speaker_index?topic=AA&special=Workshop

Take care,

-- Edited by Rob84 on Wednesday 18th of April 2012 11:48:40 PM

LinBabaAgo-go · Senior Member

Wolfie55 wrote:
this is one of the questions from the Traditions Checklist. always liked this one:
Am I in my group a healing,ending, integrating person, or am I divisive? What about gossip and taking other members inventories?
Guilty. If me and Joe and Charlie are sitting in the coffee shop and Joe says, "Has anybody seen or heard from Jack?" And I say, "I think he took a job up north for a few months." That's not gossip.
But if I say, "Well you know he met that girl, the one who just got out of detox."
And Charlie says, "Yeah you know Jack, always chasing the young stuff."
And Joe says, "But isn't he just her sponsor. I don't think its anything out of the way. Just 12th step work."
And Charlie says, "Yeah right. Sounds more a 13th step to me. I bet it won't be too long before he's the one just getting out of detox."
Well, that's gossip. And we were taking Jack's inventory too.
12 and 12 says gossip, barbed with our anger, is a polite form of murder by character assassination. We are not trying to help those we criticize; we are trying to proclaim our own righteousness.

Except Men who supposedly "know better" shouldn't be preying on vulnerable newcomers and then coming in twisting the Traditions and telling cute little stories to justify their position.

The product you are selling here isn't "Tradition One" but your right to continue to so called "sponsor" newcomer women in the face of what I am certain is overwhelming negative feedback and the feeling you get people are "gossiping" behind your back. Your right to "sponsor" newcomer women isn't protected by Tradition One, as a matter of fact, Tradition One gives the group the right to protect themselves against people who ignore the groups suggestions, such as supposed "AA Gurus" who prey on vulnerable newcomers, your right to do what you want is a different Tradition, this Tradition, which is to protect the group is first for a reason.

Same sex sponsorship is a -strong- suggestion in AA and men who prey on vulnerable newcomer women and don't allow sober women to sponsor them are viewed as sexual predators where I am from, and anywhere I have visited AA, which includes 2 other continents.

Tradition One states: Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity."

To me that means the sexual predator should be weeded from the group, not the ones who who question him and his motives especially after he has been talked to repeatedly about this behavior, -knows- it is against STRONG suggestions, and continues to do it selfishly anyway.

Yes, gossip barbed with our anger is a polite form of character assasination, that's why I have no problem stepping up into someone's grill and saying something right to there face, especially when it comes to being a sexual predator in AA no matter HOW they dress it up and no matter how many pretty little stories they tell, they are threatening the common welfare with their actions and behavior in so many ways it's not even funny, causing divisiveness, robbing potential female sponsors of their sobriety (because we keep it by giving it away) and the cruelest theft of all, the hustling of the vulnerable newcomer who succumbs to the frauds blandishments because she doesn't know better.

For me the following of Tradition One is better served by following AA's suggestions, not using it to hide behind when going against some of the strongest taboos we have in AA. Peddle that product all you want, I hold preying on vulnerable newcomers of the opposite sex is the vilest crime imaginable in AA.

-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 19th of April 2012 02:29:52 AM

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Very very clear...Mahalo Wolfie... smile

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

Hi Bernie,

Some good points and questions to be asking of ourselves and group.

I have learned the right answer is not to throw anyone under the bus, the chasing Jack needs to be with you at the coffee shop working on the solution.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

oh exactly....i love the questions the checklist poses to us to make us look at what we're doing or not doing.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

LinBabaAgo-go wrote:
I hold preying on vulnerable newcomers of the opposite sex is the vilest crime imaginable in AA.

Aye. At best their head is messed with at a time it is the last thing it needs, and at worst they are driven away, perhaps to die.

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

Frodo wrote:
LinBabaAgo-go wrote:
I hold preying on vulnerable newcomers of the opposite sex is the vilest crime imaginable in AA.

Aye. At best their head is messed with at a time it is the last thing it needs, and at worst they are driven away, perhaps to die.

I can't help but agree.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

Well, whatever it is that has got you to that level of... tolerance, I guess... I don't have. I understand the program is full of sick people and I'm probably one of the sicker ones, so I try not to judge and I try not to worry about what others are doing but I'm not perfect. I'm usually able to let things wash over me and not buy into whatever gossip or drama some members have with others but on this... nup. I can't.

When I first signed up to this program there was a youngish lady who had also joined about the same time who was driven out of AA by somebody that I can only describe as a creep. Without getting too detailed we are a small community in the bush so it is pretty easy to know which meetings to go to if you want to see someone, which he did. Woman only meetings - while not out of the question - are infrequent and a good couple of hours drive away. So he chased her, hit on her, made her increasingly uncomfortable and then she left. And got right back on the bottle. Small community, you see. We see it all and we all see it every other day.

And I know what I was like back then. I was broken. Utterly broken. If a female member had have offered me some romantic consoling I either would have taken it because I needed a friend like I'd never needed one before, or I would have run away because I just couldn't have dealt with it. Either way it would have sent me back drinking, full of self loathing and fear. And I'm only going to get one shot at this. This I know with utter certainty. So it would have killed me and I would have gone willingly.

So there you go. I'm sorry that you don't feel you have time for me, but I can't help that. You've made me think, and for that I'm grateful, and I'll pray for understanding and tolerance in these matters. I'll also try to keep in mind that we are sick people and will make mistakes because of that, and I'll also try to keep in mind that I'm not running the show and I don't understand the motivation and plans of the One who does, but right now I can only see 13 steppers and 13th stepping as the anti AA. As just another destroyer of lives that we must try to protect ourselves from.

Take care of yourself and I hope you get what you need from your program.

LinBabaAgo-go · Senior Member

Wolfie55 wrote:
well, you guys are obviously in your own little world governed by your own set of rules and as far as I'm concerned, I don't need you in my program. goodbye and have a nice day.

Of course you don't need us in your program, you post here and in the Alanon Forum about "sponsoring" women and have stated on both forums you know it go against AA's suggestions including the pamphlet on Sponsorship and the overwhelming majority of AA members opinions yet you do it anyway, and then state we are in our own world governed by our own rules.

I suggest you reread that statement and ask yourself who lives in their own world and governs by their own rules in light of all your recent posts here and on the alanon forum about sponsoring women even though you know it goes against everything AA stands for.

There are exceptions to the rule but being a self appointed AA Guru who plucks newcomer female "pigeons" even though there is female sponsorship available isn't one of them. Your own wife when returning home and finding you cooking a cozy lunch for two and finding a newcomer woman being dropped off at your house by a cab wasn't comfortable with your stories, and ...how did you put it?" You had to do some fast talking to smooth that over? I bet you did.

Once again, sell that product all you want, I'm not buying, I say to you stay away from the female newcomers and I'd say it to your face about 1/4 " away from you in a VERY low voice if you went to the meetings I did and practiced that bullshit here.

Gypsy56 · Member

think I'll stay clear of this discussion.

Wolfie55 · Senior Member

Well, you're right about a few things but you're wrong about a few others.

I admit I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning and I wasn't in a very good mood when I read the comments and they pissed me off and that's not your doing, that's my stuff and I apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the wording of my post.

I'm not sure why you think its your responsibility to take my inventory. maybe you were having a bad day too. Or maybe you're just an asshole. Either way, it sounds more like your problem than mine.

But what has been said about this has caused me to rethink some of the things I'm doing and although I still think how i do my 12th step work is up to me, I won't be talking about it here again. But I ain't going anywhere just yet.

Well, that's my apology. Do with it what you wish.

Fyne Spirit · MIP Old Timer

Many folk read these posts and I would hope most of the time, they get some reasonably accurate idea of how the AA programme ought to be worked. I am sure it wasn't your intention Wolfie , but your post above reminded me of what can happen when someone sets off to do an 9th step amends when they haven't done the preceeding steps. It goes something like this; "I admit I was wrong and I am sorry for what I did" ..Forgiver does not play game... Maybe its your fault, you're just an a**$%e and it's more your problem than mine anyway" result? Amends list gets longer and harder. What happened to sweeping our side of the street' "His faults are not discussed, we stick to our own"

God bless,
MikeH

Tracey C · Senior Member

It's the 13th stepper that has kept myself and my children from our meetings. It's hard to keep going when no one else in the groups sees that their behaviour is wrong. They say that's just the way he is and we would rather have him come then you. Just because they enjoy the fawning over and compliments he gives them.

It's all so sick.

Tracey

Tracey C · Senior Member

Not meaning you Wolfie. Just commenting on our experience.

Tracey

Polly · Senior Member

My first sponsor once said to me this is not a social club. 13 steppers give AA a bad name. She wa a very old timer.

Our common welfare should come first. My primary purpose is to say sober. I was once a free lady looking good and feeling good. But at the time even after wanting a good relationship all of my drinking days, by this time I was no longer was seeking one out. I was happy and content with myself and AA. She was a very strong opinionated woman and most people gave her great respect. As did I. She died after 35yrs in sobriety and a very old dear, she was ready. AA was her life she stood strong in the steps and traditions. I will always remember her word on giving AA a bad name.

I had spent my life giving myself a bad name I guess I understood what she was saying.

Page 133 ,12 X 12. No AA can compel another to do anything. Nobody can be punished or expelled. Our 12 steps to recovery are suggested; the 12 Traditions which guarantee AA's unity contains not a single ''Dont'' or '' you must'' they repeatedly say '' we ought.

I ought to keep my number one priority and stay sober. It was suggested that I stay out of watering holes. I understood this too. In my first few '' tender '' months and year I could not allow myself to become involved in anything that risked my sobriety and that too included embarking upon any new relationships after all I did know that my past track record was not good to look at :}

Our common welfare should come first AA personal recovery depends on this. I depended on AA to help me stay sober. I did not depend on AA to help me find a partner and hamper my recovery. And for that I am truly grateful. And when I did find a partner within AA we both lost our primary purpose..

.....''''To say sober and help another Alcoholic achieve sobriety.''

We were out back drinking again and it took us another 5yrs to return. Sad, yes very very sad. And we were not 13 stepping !

There are 12 steps and 12 tradition within AA and I try my best to remember this.

Polly.X