Eleven Chapters in the Big Book (& Bill and Lois had no children...)

Twelve Chapters · Member

Eleven Chapters in the Big Book (& Bill and Lois had no children...)

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

There also seems to be a faction of Dr. Bob followers who think the Traditions were unnecessary, as he did. We have an AA group here in St. Pete Beach "The No Fluff Group" lol, that reads "The definition of an Alcoholic" at the beginning of every meeting without any preface, as though it was some current "approved" literature. This little jewel came from the "Akron Pamphlets" that were commissioned (written by non-alcoholics) by Dr. Bob in 1944?

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 3rd of February 2012 04:20:33 PM

LinBabaAgo-go · Senior Member

Frodo wrote:

As a separate, stand alone deal, sure.

As a chapter in the Big Book - no way.

Now whether you think I am right or wrong on this I really don't care, but I believe that the writings in that book were divinely inspired. It works and it works well. It doesn't just keep us sober but it makes us better - Amazing Grace, and all that. I don't think anybody has the right to add, subtract or otherwise tamper with the original message.

just from idle curiosity have you read this new chapter yet or are you basing your opinion on...ummm.....what are you basing your opinion on?

Personally I could care less one way or another, I still use third editions, that's how calcified I am, but I do so get amused when these storms blow through AA every ten years or so, as was previously mentioned the Big Book -has- already gone through changes, they add mew forwards every time a new edition comes out, what is your resistance to adding something following the 164 pages in the 5th edition?

Herbert Spencer said something about this that actually wasn't added until the later editions, when the appendix was added about Spiritual awakenings

I love AA's little tempests in teapots they always seem to have ongoing, hell it's been "the end of AA as we know it" since the 50's, we surely love our controversies

edit: I went and skimmed it fairly quickly, I think a bit of editing is in order but it looks like fundamentally sound stuff from a quick glimpse, I don't really have the patience right now to read the whole thing, but on the whole what I saw looked pretty good, and probably needs to be said.

The Big Book is incredible, it's fantastic, it's wonderful, it's divinely inspired, that being said there are holes in it big enough to drive a truck through, the 12 and 12 addressed many of those, but there are still more, but then I think Sobriety has a lot to do with how we navigate complex emotional interactions and fit in into the world around us, our families, our jobs, etc. I see too many AAers claim "Sobriety" and neglect their families and have -zero- emotional maturity, so much so that many, if not most old timers (that I know) end up having to go outside the Program to learn these things.

I think these things should be addressed in the BB, and I am a BB thumper of the worst sort.

-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Friday 3rd of February 2012 11:13:15 PM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Good luck with that, considering that there is a large segment of the AA population that believes that the "first 164 pages" should be the only "approved literature" and would like to have the 12 & 12 removed from that list.

Twelve Chapters · Member

Wow, that's a shock, I love the 12 & 12.

Twelve Chapters · Member

Did you know that "The First 164 Pages" was actually "The First 172 Pages" for a while until The Dr.'s Opinion was taken out and put as a preface?

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Yes, I love the 12 & 12 also. And no I didn't know that the Dr.'s O was removed. So much for "keeping it real" lol

Twelve Chapters · Member

Dean, thanks for the replies. It's exciting to think that someone out there is actually reading the proposed "Twelfth Chapter."
A little while ago I wrote an essay/article about this. I'm posting it here for all to see. Let me know what you think.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

As a separate, stand alone deal, sure.

As a chapter in the Big Book - no way.

Now whether you think I am right or wrong on this I really don't care, but I believe that the writings in that book were divinely inspired. It works and it works well. It doesn't just keep us sober but it makes us better - Amazing Grace, and all that. I don't think anybody has the right to add, subtract or otherwise tamper with the original message.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

just from idle curiosity have you read this new chapter yet or are you basing your opinion on...ummm.....what are you basing your opinion on?

Read it and it's OK, I guess. I'm basing it on both the KISS system and the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' line of thought, but mostly gut feel. That book saved my life. I don't need to be rational when it comes to my thoughts on this.

As I said: as a stand alone it's fine, but I really don't like the idea of messing with something that works. There is plenty of other works out there that could slot straight into the BB (a hell of a lot from 'The Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius for example, or some of the taoist thoughts) but I wouldn't put them their either. I'd recommend them as further readings but never to be given the same weight as the BB has for us.

leeu · MIP Old Timer

The 1939 (first edition) Big Book" had 179 pages, 179 being the last page of "A Vision for You". Page 1 began "The Doctor's Opinion."

Personally, I would not want to see a single word introduced into the 164 pages of today. But for page 165 and on--not a problem.

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

Twelve Chapters wrote:
There are twelve steps and twelve
traditions but eleven chapters. Now hold that vision in mind while you contemplate this next
point; Bill Wilson did not have children.
Is it possible that Our Father has waited till now for us, the second generation of
A.A., to come of age for these facts to be contemplated? No one in A.A.s history but us
has experienced the paramount relationships of parent-child through the lens of sobriety.
No one wants to change the Big Book; this suggestion only purports to complete it.
Please VOTE at this web site: http://twelvechapters.webs.com/

-- Edited by Twelve Chapters on Friday 3rd of February 2012 04:13:33 PM

Isn't parenthood covered by 'The Family Afterward'? OK so Bill and lois weren't blessed / cursed with children - why do we need a new chapter on how to be a sober dad, when it's covered anyway?

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

I get the point you are driving at. I agree that we should not cut ourselves off from the new information and much agreed upon "best practices" involving family/child relations we have learned since 1939. That said, I don't think there has been a difficult situation since I have been sober where the appropriate course of action to take was not somewhere in the Big Book.

I personally don't think you are marketing the case in a way that will get the topic in the Big Book. Best shot would be to get a appendix section, and /or write a separate pamplet or book.

I didn't have kids either, but it always seems to be a positive thing when a member brings his kids/family members to some events and meetings so they have a understanding of the program.