I'm not a sponsor virgin. After my getting my second 1yr coin, my sponsor said I was ready and two weeks later I was asked. I worked on steps with someone for about six months and she decided to go it with out a sister guide.
I'm willing and believe what I've been told: that I'm fully capable of passing it on. The joy of being on the other side, well the promises came true for me on that one too.
So I guess the teacher may be truly ready, cause I was asked again tonight. I'm excited and to be honest, scared. Afraid of my ego.
I've just re-read the sponsor thread down the page here at MIP, and pulled out the sponsorship pamphlet. Before I get too caught up and over-do, I'll let it go cause I have to see if the gal even calls tomorrow.
One thing I read in the pamphlet is bothering me.
So here is my appeal for ESH: It says clearly that the sponsor is never to take the sponsee's inventory unless asked, p14. If I am honest I have struggled on a regular basis to stop taking the inventory of the former sponsee. I did it tonight at the same meeting. Of course, only in my head. I'm afraid this mental action has side-effects and will pollute a relationship with a new sponsee. I can't seem to stop counting how many meetings the old sponsee goes to and noticing that her shares in meetings sounds like she is not working the steps. I tell my mind to shut up and let it go. It creeps in. I'm still trying prayers. Are there any actions anyone recommends? Action has served me well in the past. I will probable run this by my sponsor tomorrow too.
Try and recount how you were sponsored and what worked. I recall that my sponsors only hit me with the truth when I was complaining, in a questioning sort of way like "how many meetings are you attending a week?" or "perhaps you should be getting on with the stepwork", or "would you like to explore the possible reasons for those consequences" lol. Like you mentioned "over doing it", I felt the overwhelming urge to tell them everything all at once. I've got to remember that it can complicate their process. If they want it, they will work for it and you can't want it (for them) more than they do. I remember my first great sponsor looking at me kinda vaguely and saying (low key) "it's up to you how long you want to endure pain and prolong agony." lol
It is her risk to take...she is now the same to you as anyone else in the program. You either identify with her ESH or you don't. She isn't your responsibility. Let her go and hope/pray that some of what you taught her stuck.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Try and recount how you were sponsored and what worked. I recall that my sponsors only hit me with the truth when I was complaining, in a questioning sort of way like "how many meetings are you attending a week?" or "perhaps you should be getting on with the stepwork", or "would you like to explore the possible reasons for those consequences" lol. Like you mentioned "over doing it", I felt the overwhelming urge to tell them everything all at once. I've got to remember that it can complicate their process. If they want it, they will work for it and you can't want it (for them) more than they do. I remember my first great sponsor looking at me kinda vaguely and saying (low key) "it's up to you how long you want to endure pain and prolong agony." lol
I agree with Dean, IMO a good sponsor does Socratic questioning, I always think of "The Old Timer kiss of death" question:
"Do you want my opinion?"
or
"so...do you want to be comforted right now or do you want my opinion?"
I rarely take the "comforted" route...like what do I want when I bring my stuff to someone?
personally I want the ole 2x4 between the eyes because I am there to stop hurting, and I learn to stop hurting by changing my behavior, but I am an uncomfortably honest person more often then not, so I am not recomending that as a behavior, but telling you what I do, and it doesn't always go well, but for me, learning what a sponsee is capable of hearing is critical, and many times it's not up to me to show them, but use the steps so they show themselves, and that's the power of the steps and the program
Does that make sense? It's not my job to take their inventory, but it's my job to show them -how- to take their own inventory and help walk them through it, and I find using the model of the socratic questioning as laid out in the BB is the most effective way
When I encounter "frequently asked questions" I "format" it
this is my personal experience
this is what the BB says
This is the Fellowships wisdom on this
this is my summary based on that information
now do what you want, I am not going to recomend you "do" anything, my job is to lay out the consequences I have suffered, and how the BB lays out how to navigate this
I have a lot of "good judgment"
most of that was aquired by having bad judgment
I like to allow people the opportunity to aquire their own good judgment, by having their own bad judgment but making sure they see all roads ahead of them, this also builds trust with sponsees, when they don't encounter judgment, opinion or lectures, but support and experience, and then when it gets important, they trust what I say is the truth
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Saturday 10th of December 2011 06:43:19 PM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I have a lot of "good judgment" most of that was aquired by having bad judgment
Man...How true is that...Good stuff here. I have a good freind in AA and he's a damn good sponsor. He was telling me the first three guys he sponsored ended up dead. Car accidents, drinking, whatever. They didn't go to any length and didn't make it. He went to his sponsor and said...I can't do this anymore....And his sponsor told him...Bullshit. All you can do with a sponsee is share with them what you know about taking those 12 steps. There are going to be a lot of people that want and need this program...If they are not willing to go to any length to get what you have...It won't work. Simple. Basically...you can share with them what you know about how it works...But you can't share with them how to be willing..They are...or they aren't. I'm looking forward to sharing what I know with a newcomer...And I pray when that time comes...I get one that is willing. That's all I can do. You know....There is no sponsor school....I guess you have to get your experience like you did when you took the steps....Simply by doing it.
He was telling me the first three guys he sponsored ended up dead. Car accidents, drinking, whatever. They didn't go to any length and didn't make it.
Sometimes people go "to any length" and still don't make it, I have found it's best in most cases to not judge why people don't make it unless they are totally half assing it and they are on the business end of one of my asschews because I am trying to save their life
There is a reason Pride is the first of the deadly sins
I was watching a guy get his 25th year chip about, I don't know, 15 years ago and he gave a little pitch, and it was all about "anyone you see in these rooms is doing the best they can" and he meant the court card signers too, that always stuck with me...what a concept... everyone is doing the best they can....because...they are
no one chooses to suffer, or die...ya know? Judgment only makes me sick, I am not going to say I don't do it, but I will say it gets me sick every time, it knocks me off my spiritual path... hurts me ....pretty bad
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
The former sponsee, she is a friend and she doesn't care to bring up recovery work with me. I called her today in hopes it would dispell the boogeyman of my endless thoughts about her program. We had a good conversation about general stuff going on. I'm going to visit with her Thursday after she has gall bladder surgery.
The former sponsee, she is a friend and she doesn't care to bring up recovery work with me. I called her today in hopes it would dispell the boogeyman of my endless thoughts about her program. We had a good conversation about general stuff going on. I'm going to visit with her Thursday after she has gall bladder surgery.
Pennies in a wishing well and you stayed sober, happy, and busy another day
every once in awhile one "sticks"
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
So I guess the teacher may be truly ready, cause I was asked again tonight. I'm excited and to be honest, scared. Afraid of my ego.
Hi Angel,
Yes, the ego is why you still want to take the inventory of the old sponcee also. No need she is just another person at a meeting, but it is easy to get caught up in how much better she would be doing if we where working with them.
To me, Sponsorship is just like the program, it's about helping us stay sober and connected and putting in the effort, it's not about the results.
It's great when they listen, do the work and get well, but I try not to take the credit or the fault, I just do my job to deliver the message the best I can.
I just look at it like I'm the pizza delivery guy. All I can do is deliver the pizza, (hopefully hot and fresh) I can't make anyone eat it, what they do with it is up to them.
Don't be afraid to call the new person before they call you but don't pester.
Bill called Bob.
Hope this can help,
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
When I would occasionally be worrying about a new gal I was sponsoring ...wondering if I should call her cuz' she hadnt called me,yet ... my sponsor would tell me to always pray about it and if the 'Spirit' moved me to call her , then go ahead and call her.
Sure, it is hard to not let ego get in the way of this process. We want so badly for others to get 'it' and have sobriety like we do. I often remember the slogan - 'Let go and let God'. I do what I can and let God handle the rest ... for He is the One with the Power.
Sorry to knock you off your spritual path LinBabaAgo-go...Plain and simple...You are either willing to make this program work...Or you're not.
LoL
umm...OK, I'm speaking from a few decades of experience with sponsoring dozens and dozens of men, many of whom made it, and many of whom didn't, this isn't "my opinion" it's my experience, and as such it's not really debate-able, because it's...my experience, get back to me when you actually have some, as I am not the slightest bit interested in discussing someones opinion about an experience they have never had. I don't mean to be harsh but one of the first things I learned when I came to AA was not talk out of my ass, and to limit my shares to my experience, strength and hope, if you don't have that experience yet you will, stick around long enough.
Some people just don't make it, for a variety of reasons, willing is just one of them, even in AA's "best" estimates we only had a 75% success rate and that was with people that were willing, and that's according to "your guy" Bill W
Yes I know that doesn't square with the anecdotal story about the word "rarely" and "never" but that's why it is an anecdotal story, what is -YOUR- experience is what is important Stepchild, who are -you- to play God and decide whether these people who didn't make it were willing or not, are you God to pass judgment on hundreds of thousands of people you have never met??? were you there for every single person ever that has ever "gone out"???
I have seen people be 100% willing and not make it with my own eyes, that's not "opinion" it's "observe and describe", from personal observation, it's "objective" as opposed to mindlessly spouting hearsay Dogma with absolutely zero facts or experience to back it up.
and Yes, I am a "Big Book" guy, a full blown 164 pager thumper, the book that tells me it's best to stick with my -own- experience and not claim I know everything especially about s*** I know nothing about
I have seen people "go out" after decades of sobriety for a variety of reasons and have alcohol grab them by the neck and take them out, watched them sit in meetings and sob helplessly because they couldn't make it back and then die miserable, you are telling me they weren't willing????
Jesus wept son, keep to your experience
StPeteDean wrote:
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Sunday 11th of December 2011 10:47:59 AM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Sorry I haven't reached perfection yet...I was simply sharing what a guy shared with me who has also sponsored dozens of men and what his sponsor shared with him.
Sorry I haven't reached perfection yet...I was simply sharing what a guy shared with me who has also sponsored dozens of men and what his sponsor shared with him.
willing is just one of them
At least he got one right...
"Willing" is indispensible absolutely, as are Honesty and Open Mindedness, but those are the three qualities that are indispensible in order to -get- sober, they don't -guarantee- sobriety, but your chances go from zero to pretty good if you have those three
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.
I'm not going to beat this to death.... All I know about AA is from what I have read from AA Literature and what I have heard from fellow AA's. You are right...I don't have your experience....I am damn willing to get it.
If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.
I'm not going to beat this to death.... All I know about AA is from what I have read from AA Literature and what I have heard from fellow AA's. You are right...I don't have your experience....I am damn willing to get it.
No worries, here let me help you, I will make a "fictitious" statement from your perspective that I would have agreed with 100%
"I was willing and worked the steps and it -absolutely- worked for me, so according to -my experience- the success rate of AA and being willing is 100%, those I observe around me, the ones that also make it also display willingness whereas the majority of those I have seen "go out" don't really display 100% willingness, their program seems to be lacking in areas and I attribute that to lack of willingness"
and I would agree with that statement 100% because
A. It's your experience, therefore not opinion
B. it matches my experience
I am not disagreeing with you about the necessity of willingness, yeah, we're willing and we work the steps, and the steps, generally speaking cause a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism, I'm cool with that, what I am not cool with is some f***ing new guy making blanket statements pulled out of their ass based on zero experience, you see the difference?
stick to your -experience- and I will -never- disagree with you, even if it doesn't match my experience, make broad sweeping statements and say some sh*t like
"Sorry to knock you off your spritual path LinBabaAgo-go...Plain and simple -sic- (you are wrong)"
We gonna have a discussion for two reasons
A. You weren't "sorry" even a tiny bit, you took deliberate aim and let fly purposefully declaring my experience was "wrong", don't be condescending especially when talking to people that have been doing this 40 times longer then you like you do with Dean, who HAS to be nice to you because he is a moderator here, I am under no such restriction
B. Your assertion was based on opinion and anecdotal hearsay, my grandsponsor (who got sober in WWII) used to grab me by the ear and drag me outside and chew my ass for that bull**** in a voice that could be heard 3 blocks away for being a wet behind the ears little know it all shit
stick to your experience and we'll get along fine
P.S. Now you know why Dean ran for the popcorn when he saw what you wrote lol
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Sunday 11th of December 2011 12:25:45 PM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Who needs the Big Book when you have this guy's experience.
Exactly! that's what I tried to tell you. Go into the AGO and Linbaba profiles and read the post history for awhile. There's a lot more than 164 pages in there.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 11th of December 2011 07:45:04 PM
Who needs the Big Book when you have this guy's experience.
Exactly! that's what I tried to tell you. Go into the AGO and Linbaba profiles and read the post history for awhile. There's a lot more than 164 pages in there.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 11th of December 2011 07:45:04 PM
and that's just on step 3 lol
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
