A freind of mine has recently asked me if I can help them in regard to their problem with drinking. Because I'm still newish I put them in touch with an older member and they'll be seeing them in a couple of days.
My friend also wants to detox/rehab but wants to do an out patient course which knowing the circumstances seems reasonable - although I'm not offering an opinion either way - and they asked me to look at a couple of places they've found so I can decipher / explain to the best of my ability what they offer and how it should work. I told them the best step was to see a doc and a D&A person who is more qualified than me but I was curious and had a look.
Thats where it got interesting.
There is a bunch of clinics offering 'non 12 step' programs. That's fine but they seem to want to beat up on AA to advertise their own thing.
Lines like: unlike AA we won't release information. Unlike AA we don't tell you you are powerless and helpless. We don't tell you you will be an alcoholic all your life - after a while you will be able to drink normally.
It seemed pretty sad to me. It really struck me as profitteering off peoples misery.
It's seems to be a trend for this "get sober quick" programs to belittle AA somehow. There's an ad on TV now that says "Unlike 12 step programs, this really works". The reality is that all rehabs, outpatient, and AA programs share about the same percentage of success. About 5% or 1 in 20 beyond a year. IMO more information is better. And a person might have a better chance (if they go willingly) to attend rehab in conjunction with AA. After failing for 2 years, going to meetings, I was ready to do whatever it took. A big change in my program involved sharing a house with sober people and attending meetings/hanging out with them.
Lines like: unlike AA we won't release information. Unlike AA we don't tell you you are powerless and helpless. We don't tell you you will be an alcoholic all your life - after a while you will be able to drink normally.
It seemed pretty sad to me. It really struck me as profitteering off peoples misery.
Obviously these people are not alcoholics and are greedy to make money by giving others false hope ...
I've never heard of any AA group giving out info on any members ...
If I don't concede my powerlessness, then I'm only building up the person I need to be rid of ...
And if you can learn to drink 'normally', then your not an alcoholic to start with ...
WOW, the nerve of some people ... kinda makes me sick to think about it ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
It seems round here that the political and perhaps society's idea of an alcoholic is a much wider definition than AA's "real alcoholic". The official definition of a binge is something like having 5 or more standard drinks in an evening. This has the effect of making the pool of potential customers for these rehabs much bigger and as a consequence, a greater number of non alcoholics find thier way to AA and then leave because AA has nothing for them. They then become AAs failures. I try to keep this in mind when I hear the dismal statistics that AA appears to have these days. It is my experience that the real alcoholic,who arrives in AA with the requisite honesty, openmindedness and willingness, and connects with a competent sponsor and follows the suggestions contained in the Big Book, has a very good chance of achieving a complete and lasting recovery, much better than the statistics would suggest.
Our most succesful local rehhab closed some years ago. We have two detox type programmes which take about 4 weeks to get into and a wealth of counsellors working on what is called "harm minimisation". I have no idea what their success rate is with real alcoholics. We also have the Salvation Army Bridge programme. They tell their patients that they have a sucess rate of 1-2%. Another chap told me that rational recovery was the answer but I had trouble taking him seriously, he had just been commited under our mental health act after something like 14 unsuccessful rehabs.
That is not to say rehabs don't provide useful services, it is just that in my experience they don't have a total answer for alcoholics of my type. A good rehab can give their patient a great start in sobriety. They seem to be particularly good with their trained counsellors at dealing with deeper issues and problems other than alcoholism and can put an individual in a better position to start developing their new way of life in AA, than they would have been otherwise. And that's really the important point. Helpful though a rehab may be, a short course is not a cure and, for alcoholics of my type, is no substitute for developing a new manner of living through regualr attendance at AA meetings and adoption of the 12 steps as a way of life.
BTW Frodo, have a read of chapter 7. "Carry this message to other alcoholics! your can help where no one else can. You can secure their confidence when others fail." You have been given the power to help others and God has just given you an opportunity to participate in the most rewarding experience a sober alcoholic can have.
God bless,
MikeH.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Wednesday 16th of November 2011 02:49:46 PM
Rehabs are a good way to detox and get the medical help one needs, but in my book, if they don't have an AA transistion program, their chance of long-term sobriety drops dramatically ... As we all know, it's one thing to get sober, and it's a totally different thing to stay sober ... In my last Rehab, they took us to AA meetings 'off-site' and their therapy sessions were formatted like a meeting, complete with ending in prayer ... it made the difference to me and upon leaving, I went straight into planning every day around an AA meeting ...
OH, I just got an update that our president Obama's admin is shutting off all government assistance to Rehab centers(Alcohol & Drug) that allow God and the reading of the Bible in the course of their recovery program ... What a freakin' idiot ...
Sorry, I just can't believe the sh*t him and his people come up with!
May God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Aloha Frodo...I've listen to your story in part and have watched you walk the program at least on the board. For me I believe your recovery is one hell of an asset to share with another person who wants to get and stay sober. Then take him to a meeting.
Yah. I agree with Jerry. The best thing you can do is show him how AA works for you. It is okay to be enthusiastic and to share AA from your experience. In fact, that is our responsibility. If he chooses something else, I guess the protocol is to say "good luck! and come back to AA any time you want."
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for the topic. I think "AA's" success rate is underrated, despite certain statistical calculations. You're right, statistics don't lie, but what about "AA's" success over the years. The inherent value found within its frame work can only dictate a certain success ratio, given the variables. The fellowship of "AA" holds the key to its growth overall, despite the statistical anomalies. The frame work outlined by "AA's" founders Bill and Bob are catered specifically for the individuals in question. But sustained growth within "AA's" fellowship itself can only increase exponentially if we allow it too. Within the confines of this wonderful fellowship is an effective antidote for sober living; an immense spiritual awakening that could provide us with a "sober alternative" against the first drink. The key, however, is finding it amongst all the chatter. The possibilities though are endless, but few imagine its effectiveness. And that's where we step in. Lasting sobriety -which could rid ourselves from the stigma of active alcoholism, is attainable. But it can only operate successfully within the confines of "AA", not without. My theory in a nutshell and this is why.
"AA's" success throughout the years is not to be taken lightly and for good reason. The lessons I've learned and the experiences we've shared can convince anyone to believe. However, that's only half the story. It must be followed up by "AA's" support clause. A network of recovering alcoholics who are willing to put their needs above our own. Let's use my experience as an example. I've been a faithful member of "AA" for 10+ years now, thanks be to God. And the two elements that have sustained me through life's travelling forces are the grace of almighty God and the fellowship of AA...in that order. The only way I could have sustained a quality of life thus far is by developing a sober routine that works for me. And it all started for me 10+ years ago within the fellowship of "AA". "AA" hasn't failed me yet...not by a long shot. And that, my friends, is how I stay sober, for sure.
"AA's" been labeled many things including "a complete failure" by some people, but not me. AA has provided me with the necessary tools to become more successful in life and beyond. I can always maintain some sort of comfort level while working my program, something other mediators simply cannot. All I have to do is to show up, and turn my attention towards a solution that works. "AA" keeps it real for me, and does so without compromise. And that, my friends, is how I came to believe, pure and simple. I hope "AA" can provide others with the same level of comfort as it does me, each and every day. And it can do so, for years on end. That is what I call sober living, indeed. And AA", of course, deserves all the credit, once again.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 02:36:01 AM
Aloha Frodo...I've listen to your story in part and have watched you walk the program at least on the board. For me I believe your recovery is one hell of an asset to share with another person who wants to get and stay sober. Then take him to a meeting.
Sure. The friend is my wife. I said friend because I was using it as background as to how I found these programs that seem to think this is some sort of competition and I didn't want the main point missed.
Because we are still dealing with the marriage breakup I thought it best that I stay at arms length and hand it to a lady I know who really gets the program. She's great. No nonsense zen I would best describe her as. I figured I can stay in the background and just be there if my wife needs me. She also sees me as a living example that the program works which is why she came to me. That was one of the most humbling experiences of my life. A year ago I was a useless drunk she threw out and today she asks me if I can help her.
And to tell the truth I want to remove the any temptation I might have to add a slight twist or two to the message that will satisfy my wants. The old me can see hundreds of ways I can use this to my advantage and make myself a hero to her but the new me is horrified at the thought of doing that. Best I stand as far back as I can while being close enough to be of use if I'm needed.
And to the main point: I got sober in a rehab that had AA as part of its treatment - thank God. I would have walked straight out and drunk again otherwise.
Prayers and blessings to all. :)
-- Edited by Frodo on Thursday 17th of November 2011 04:45:52 AM
Rehabs are a good way to detox and get the medical help one needs, but in my book, if they don't have an AA transistion program, their chance of long-term sobriety drops dramatically ... As we all know, it's one thing to get sober, and it's a totally different thing to stay sober ... In my last Rehab, they took us to AA meetings 'off-site' and their therapy sessions were formatted like a meeting, complete with ending in prayer ... it made the difference to me and upon leaving, I went straight into planning every day around an AA meeting ...
OH, I just got an update that our president Obama's admin is shutting off all government assistance to Rehab centers(Alcohol & Drug) that allow God and the reading of the Bible in the course of their recovery program ... What a freakin' idiot ...
Sorry, I just can't believe the sh*t him and his people come up with!
May God Bless, Pappy
+1 Pappy.
__________________
"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Sure. The friend is my wife. Because we are still dealing with the marriage breakup I thought it best that I stay at arms length and hand it to a lady I know who really gets the program.
And to tell the truth I want to remove the any temptation I might have to add a slight twist or two to the message that will satisfy my wants. The old me can see hundreds of ways I can use this to my advantage and make myself a hero to her but the new me is horrified at the thought of doing that. Best I stand as far back as I can while being close enough to be of use if I'm needed.
-- Edited by Frodo on Thursday 17th of November 2011 04:45:52 AM
Oh frodo, the bits I've copied here from your message tells me that we have a man here who not only goes to any lengths, not only finds how to do the next right thing, but is also self aware and honest enough to say that he could manipulate this to his own benefit, but chooses to not do that.
Frodo, that's a living example of recovery in action.
as for AA though, we call it bognor regis sometimes (Bognor is a sea side resort where many old guys retire to so they can live out their days in relative warmth) - it's the Last Resort. when everything else has failed, AA will usually work.
there are a lot of drink management counsellors, drink awareness programmes, non 12 step recovery programmes, religious based recovery programmes. Well if any of those work, that's grand. If someone who apparantly has lost control can do the right about face.............
Meanwhile, we're here as the last resort. for some of us we short cut the system and jump straight into AA (I was one)
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
There is a bunch of clinics offering 'non 12 step' programs. That's fine but they seem to want to beat up on AA to advertise their own thing.
Lines like: unlike AA we won't release information. Unlike AA we don't tell you you are powerless and helpless. We don't tell you you will be an alcoholic all your life - after a while you will be able to drink normally.
It seemed pretty sad to me. It really struck me as profitteering off peoples misery.
AA doesn't advertise, promote or charge anybody anything. Why would they have anything good to say about a program like that? As far as this converting you to a normal drinker goes, I have yet to run into one.
