No alcohol for 7 days now. I've been going to 2 meetings a day. It's the only part of my day that makes sense besides going to bed at night. I have been self-employed since 1997 and finally drank the small business away. I started filling out applications online and just realize more and more how I have torn my life completely apart. My behavior and choices has taken me away from 4 kids and all of my family for years. My kids are young teens and one is 20. I haven't seen or talked to any of them since they were 1 to 4 years old. I can't even go visit my Mom for the holidays due to their fear of my behavior. I try not to go into self-pity and this pain and sadness is taking me over the edge. I don't know how to handle life anymore. I am trying to learn to just let my feelings be what they are without running. All I have ever done is run, and that is what got me where I am. I try to beleive you guys went through exactly what I am going through and you made it. You quit running. you didn't drink one day at a time. I prayed for God to direct my thinking, make me useful to someone today, and help me stay sober today. If he is directing my thinking, I can't tell. All I think is how unemployable I have become, no licesne, no car, no job history. No real soberiety since I came into the rooms in 1996. I won't drink today. I already went to 2 meetings today. I am at my sponsors house. He has let me stay here even though I don't have any money for rent. I am broken. The only thing keeping me hopeful is knowing you all went through what I am going through and you got through it without drinking. You got through it and got sober, found peace, realized a true relationship with God. I am powerless and my life is unmanageable. My name is David and I am an alcoholic.
hello David. now that you are broken, He can put you back together. it will not be a quick fix, it will take as long as it takes, which will be until your last breath. we alcoholics are intelligent folks, some are even brilliant, but we have to accept that on our own we don't have the answers to living the best life we can live. AA helps us find our path. it may be hard to believe, but there are others worse off than you. pray and keep your eyes and heart open, you will find ways to help others, and that will help you. i never thought i could live without a drink in my hand, but it is almost 3 years. every day gets better.... and the first days and months were miserable at times, but each day my spirit got stronger and my desire for alcohol got less. In my opinion, if you look for the negative you will live in negativity. if you look for the good and positive side that will become a part of you. people (and family) will be attracted to you instead of repelled. be patient with yourself and patient with others who won't see how hard you are working the AA steps. Alcohol hides the truth from us. each day sober you will find a victory to celebrate. we are here celebrating "you" and your recovery
-- Edited by jj on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 07:20:04 PM
Hang in there David, it does get better if we do the required work. I see you have quite a lot of AA experience under your belt and you mentioned going to lots of meetings. Would you mind answering a question for me? Where did you get to with your step work?
Welcome David and keep coming back it gets much much better even to the point that you can get brutalized by the police and not find a reason in that to drink. 11/8/11 was going to get a rain hat and ended up in jail, then the emergency, then back in jail and then to criminal court. HP with me all the way and still...no need to run anymore just stay quiet and listen. Your Sponsor is a rock and you couldn't out-run your HP...things are looking up.
Don't drink...don't think...listen and then practice. That is what I was told and that is what I did before or around 2/8/79. It's true what jj said it won't happen all at once or overnight. It happens day by day; one at a time and step by step also one at a time. I'm in support and it will get much much better. ((((hugs))))
Hey David, ... I was talking to my sponsor one time early on, and asked oh man, why did it take me so long to get back to AA ... He said, 'some of us are sicker than others' ... That was in '08 and this time I never left ... and jj is right ... it took time and early on I almost couldn't stand it, but it did get better day by day a little at a time ...
They say or recommend to do 90 meetings in 90 days, well I was so sick, I did 8-10 a week for 'right at' two years ... and I still average about three a week and more when I can swing it ... I came to love the meetings ... at first, I felt safe there with other alcoholics, and then as time pasted, I continued because we are family and I love seeing and talking to everyone ... and most of all, it gives me a chance to give back some of the wisdom I received when early in the program ... keep going to meetings, it'll grow on you!
Good luck and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Welcome back. Congrats on being sober for 7 days. It's a nice feeling isn't it? Being sober that is. It's certainly an accomplishment anyway you look at it. So, be proud of that.
Those feelings you talked about David are no different than mine. I suffered through bouts of depression myself in early sobriety, just like you. It felt like everything I did lacked meaning. Anything I tried to accomplish in life, especially "AA" or recovery related, lacked purpose. I'd already been down this path dozens of times with fewer results. And nothing this time would be any different. So, I thought. That, however, wasn't the case. What I experienced this time was an overwhelming urge to complete the work still left unfinished. The work I'm talking about David is of course...the steps.
When I finally finished the 9th step in its entirety, something amazing began to happen. My life started to improve. A life, that at one time seemed broken and out of place started to take on new meaning. What I needed to experience most of all was an overwhelming sense of forgiveness. And when that happened, everything else fell into place as it should. I needed to experience a sense of forgiveness that I could actually "feel" myself. When I did, my guilty disposition started to fade, as did my desire to drink.
When my family forgave me, I felt forgiven. When my ex-wife forgave me, I felt forgiven. And when I forgave myself...I was able to forgive others. That, my friend, is how the steps work -if we work them. Period. The only thing preventing us from experiencing "God's" best is also the biggest obstacle any recovering alcoholic can overcome besides alcohol...Time.
So, give time, time and recovery that much more. And start working on the steps with a sponsor. Its worth all the effort we put into it, guaranteed. Oh...one last thing. Don't give up, not just yet. There is still hope at the end of that rainbow and it's getting a little brighter each and every day. Where that can end up for us is ultimately your decision. So, keep up the good fight and never give up hope. We won't, either should you.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Wednesday 16th of November 2011 03:53:27 AM
For me God loved me first and then I got better. With the people in my life it took a little longer but throught the steps, meetings and working with a sponsor soo my life actually had meaning. Keep going to meetings and talking to God and you will be amazed before you are half way through. God bless you and I hope you have many sober happy 24 hour periods in your life.
__________________
Tell me and I'll forget. Teach me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll learn.
Keep it simple. You are mending and it takes time. Healing is also painful but what is the alternative? Die? Get worse? Forget that! The one thing that will set you back is drinking. You hit bottom and just believe it can only get better if you stay sober and stick with the program. I can promise you 100 percent your life will be much better if you can just stick with this one day at a time.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I know you personally. I know of your struggles. While many here may not understand what I am saying, I know you will because we have talked many hours along the lines I will allude to here.
Baseed on what you have shared, you are wearing the garments of despair, of self loathing, of regret, and probably the worse garment you are wearing is shame. What you seem to be covering your fine wardrobe with is the umbrella of hopelessness.
This is what is coming from your "Thought Closet". What you've been putting in it for a very long time.
Let's take a moment to rephrase and redefine your experience and feelings, and thoughts about it to bring about a new wardrobe for you to try on....
No alcohol for 7 days now. (I might be able to do 8 days if I do tomorrow what I've done today!) I've been going to 2 meetings a day. (I am grateful I have the ability to get a double dose of the fellowship every day!) It's the only part of my day that makes sense besides going to bed at night. (Which is proably good because when I understand everything I am not so teachable, today I can learn!) I have been self-employed since 1997 (well, I've actually be employed full time simply being me, and I have been punching the clock every day from the moment my eyes opened til they finally callapse in utter exhaustion, from all the energy I've expended trying to run my world and be the general manager of global affairs.) and finally drank the small business away. (Gosh, I am glad I lost that job because I really suck at it and the benefits really suck!)I started filling out applications online (Yes, I have developed the ability to use a computer and take advantage of the internet!)and just realize more and more how I have torn my life completely apart. My behavior and choices has taken me away from 4 kids and all of my family for years. My kids are young teens and one is 20. I haven't seen or talked to any of them since they were 1 to 4 years old. (Well, I am still grateful that God has spared them the childhood of having an alcoholic father, He has protected them and I know He has done this for me because its not a life I believe any child should have to experience. I can't even go visit my Mom for the holidays due to their fear of my behavior. (But this year I am letting go of my resentfulness and self pity and sending her a nice card, letting her know I might not have been the greatest son, but she is a great mother and I love her) I try not to go into self-pity and this pain and sadness is taking me over the edge. (I am glad that my Higher Power is on the other side of that edge, ready to catch me in both of His almighty hands, I don't need to live in fear of what is in front of me because I know He is) I don't know how to handle life anymore. (And can't say I ever have, so I am grateful I can utilize God to handle it for me, and trust He'll do a better job of it) I am trying to learn to just let my feelings be what they are without running. All I have ever done is run, and that is what got me where I am. (I guess I should be grateful that I have the gift of being persistance and having endurance to go the extra mile!) I try to beleive you guys went through exactly what I am going through and you made it. You quit running. you didn't drink one day at a time. (and if you folks can get and do this, I believe it will work for me to!) I prayed for God to direct my thinking, make me useful to someone today, and help me stay sober today. If he is directing my thinking, I can't tell. (Well, I can tell, because I'm putting on a new warerobe today, I'm no longer pulling out yesterdays outfits to wear today.) All I think is how unemployable I have become, no licesne, no car, no job history. No real soberiety since I came into the rooms in 1996. (This beginning is the frame work, the stage of victory, that God is setting so I can possibly carry a strong message of hope one day to the man I know will enter the rooms and feel as I once did, think the way I once thought, and I will be used as a vessel to show him through my own experience, strength and hope that he won't be stuck there forever, that God is creating a story of victory with him so he too can bare witness.) I won't drink today. I already went to 2 meetings today. I am at my sponsors house. He has let me stay here even though I don't have any money for rent. (man, I been blessed with exactly what I need when I need it.) I am broken. (but I'm not broke, I'm weathy with the grace and mercy of my Higher Power!) The only thing keeping me hopeful is knowing you all went through what I am going through and you got through it without drinking. You got through it and got sober, found peace, realized a true relationship with God. (I am going to walk in faith that what happened for you will will happen for me too!) I am powerless and my life is unmanageable. My name is David and I am an alcoholic.
Now, you are dressed up, in the clothing of Hope, of Determination, of Trust, of Faith and above, covering your new wardrobe is the Love, of an awesome God.
What are you putting in your "Thought Closet" tonight? Take note, because its likely what you will be wearing tomorrow.
Hey John, ... That was absolutely awesome ... What you shared meant a lot to me, even though I've been around a while ... Thanks for handing me a little humility today ... I see now that I still have a lot to learn ...
God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Mind boggling read John. A big advantage having met David so you would have a much better idea than I of how to help. It seemed to me, boiled down, your post was a comprehensive outline of step 4 which, from what I can make out of David's story is about where he is at. Pure guesswork of course as my question on this remains unanswered, but I am reminded of the classic two step approach to the programme. This is often called called the three step (stopping after the third) but this is erroneous, if the 4th ain't done then the 3rd can't have been done either. I have seen a few two steppers over the years and their pattern seems very similar to that described in this thread.
Fyne Spirit, I have worked up to the 8th step and always stopped.. Where I have missed the mark of recovery is from the start, as has been pointed out to me by John, which is that we work WITH another alcohlic. Service work is something that I always thought was something to take or leave. I finally realize it is of the utmost importance that I get and stay involved. That I learn how to care about the guy who has less time than me. That I reach out to the brand newcomer- even if it is only to show em where the coffee is and to listen.
Hi David, nice to hear from you. I think if you read John's post closely, you will see he alludes to step 9 when suggesting you send a card to your mother for example. If I have understood your post, you are saying that you never got past step 8 in terms of house cleaning. To me, that explains quite a lot. I think it says in the book somewhere when explaining causes of relapse that very often it is found to be a secret kept (step 5) or refusal to make an amends (step 9). It is also often said that an effective defense against the first drink only comes after step 9 which is the point at which all the blocks are removed to a spiritual awakening - change of personality. Step 10 helps us to remove any new blocks (fix mistakes) as we go along and step 11 provides the means to live each day according to God's will for us, to the best of our ability. Then step 12 Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and practice these principles in all our affairs. It is true (quoting the book again) "that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics" but what does that really mean? In my experience it means the teaching and practice of the 12 steps, all 12. The steps, I have found, are best understood in hind sight. To teach the steps (help others) one must understand the steps and to understand the steps one must take them first. P164 "The answers will come if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got". My friend, I beg you to work with John, or your sponsor or both and take that 9th step. Trust god, Clean House, Help Others. God bless, Mike.
Hey David, ... I'm encouraged by your last post ... sound like you're right where you need to be ... And it sounds as though you're making an honest evaluation of yourself, good ... for me, it wasn't until I finally made a conscious contact with God did I begin to realize the importance of the spiritual nature of this program ... and only then did I start to make any real progress ...
I wrote a summary of what I learned in one section of reading the book, 'The Sermon on the Mount' by Emmet Fox ... (some of what our founders read) ... if I can find it, I'll post it ... it was on the section of being 'poor in spirit' ... good stuff ... let me look for it and see if I can locate it quickly, be right back ... Hey, I found it ... Check this out:
In my search for the wisdom depicted in the Big Book of AA, I read some things that entirely changed my views on certain issues ... this is one of those issues ...
Below, I paraphrased portions of the writings of 'Emmet Fox' from his book "The Sermon on the Mount" ... The following is what I learned:
To be 'poor in spirit' does not mean what is sometimes thought of as 'poor spirited' ... To be 'poor in spirit' means to have emptied yourself of all desire to exercise self-will, and, what is just as important, to have renounced all preconceived opinions in the wholehearted search for God ... It means to be willing to set aside your present habits of thought, your present views and prejudices, your present way of life if necessary; to get rid of, in fact, anything and everything that can stand in the way of your finding God ...
The 'poor in spirit' suffer from none of the pitfalls of 'pride of money', 'intellectual learning', 'self accomplishments', 'cocksuredness', 'social prestige', 'political or religious' standing, etc.; because they never had any of these or because they have risen above them on the tide of spiritual understanding ... (NOTE: To have great wealth in material things is neither good nor bad, but to have love for these things is ... Especially if it keeps you from the 'Love of God' as a priority in your life!!!)
The 'poor in spirit' have got rid of the love of money and property, of fear of public opinion, and of the disapproval of friends and family ... they are no longer over-awed by human authority ... they are no longer cocksure in their own opinions ... They have come to see that their most cherished beliefs may have been and probably were mistaken, and that their ideas and views of life may be false and in need of recasting ... They are ready to start again at the very beginning and learn life anew ...
This reminds me when my sponsor told me 'all of my thinking' was wrong and needed to change ... He said I needed to start fresh and rebuild my thinking to align with the principles of the program ... Starting with prayer to God 'to take me today and do with me as You see fit' ... ' may I do Your will only in my life' ...
This helped me to get off on the right foot, hope it says something to you too ...
Love Ya and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi Pappy and fyne! Have loved your shares. They are amazing to me. I think its because in them I can truly see our common bond. In fact, the unity of Love, Hope, Strength and Experience that is shared in this whole thread screams... "we've all been on the merchant vessel as it was sinking, and our commarodity is soo obvious having escaped the disaster and reached solid ground together."
Pappy, you know what I pulled out this morning and shared with David? Literally hours before your post here? Emmet Fox's Sermon on the Mount book! And we read a few chapters of it that I believe go right to the points of contention that is being expressed, experienced, edified, validated, supported, reaffirmed, entrenched, and so deeply embedded that it becomes a scare on the human spirit and soul of the inflicted. "As a Man Thinketh". Chapter 3. This falls in line with what I referred to above as the "Thought Closet". While I myself would refrain from calling myself a Christian, I do believe that the Inner Man, must undergo a great spiritual awakening, or conscious self awareness in order to bring about any real change of substance. If I don't recognise my negative thought process, refuse to accept my self imposed negative identity, and rephrase/redefine my negative sense of self and purpose. I am going to end up dressed in depression, fear, anxiety, worry, shame, regret, loniness, self pity, and this is just a short list of negative attire I am packing my closet full of, and having to wear in my daily walk of recovery. Now, why did I drink and/or drug for 20 years? To change the way I feel... about me, about you, the world at large and my relation to my Higher Power. If I come into recovery and I am not willing to start changing what I am hanging in my closet, I will keep wearing the same garments of self that was so distastful that I can not live comfortably inside my own skin without some method of medicating it (restless, irritable and discontent) In the program we often hear... "It's an inside job"... or "we don't want to simply decorate the garbage can", "trust God and clean house"..."Burn into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regargless of anyone. The only condition is he trust in God and clean house." bb pg 98. (paraphrased; nothing has to change outside in order for me to get well inside. When the inside work is done the outside will reflect it.) This principle never works in reverse or upside down.
So, I try to emphasis to the men I work with that they need to watch what they are pulling out of, or hanging in the "Inner thought closet" because until we start hanging new stuff in it, we arn't going to find any new stuff to pull out of it, and begin wearing in our daily walk.
Fyne, I like your vision of seeing the application of the steps in this process. I always say...
A boxer doesn't go into the ring without first studying his opponent, to know what he is coming up against.
Step one introduces us to our disease, to the malady of it, to see its true nature so we don't keep getting sucker punched by it.
Step two and three introduces us to our tag team, the elements that we are going to come to not merely believe in, but truly rely and depend upon.
Step four and five introduces us to ourselfs, and discovering how deeply embedded many old ideas, values, morals and beliefs are, we acknowlege that they may be outside the reach of our fellow man, therapist, medications, and other sources... so...
In Step six and seven we're turned back over to God, so He can do what He does...(tweek that internal stuff so that we are more aligned with His will and His way of life)
Step 8 and 9 introduces a new man/woman to the world... ("we have undergone a spiritual rebirth")
Step 10, 11, and 12 is what makes sure the old man/woman does not make a return visit or starts to take residency in our lives ever again.
What ever method we may or may not use, in the absince of making the internal changes, the external world will never fell comfortable.
In my case feeling hopeless was the jumping off point that allowed me to fully accept I had no control over the alcoholism. Many folks need to go to many meetings and in the beginning that is the only time that they feel some direction and relative peace. If you continue staying sober and doing the best you can to open to the program of AA I can guarantee you it will get better. It sounds like you may have proven to yourself that you are sure of more suffering if you continue the lifestyle you were before, so I hope to see you around.
Thanks for your kind words John. I'm a fairly simple bloke having graduated from stupidity a few years ago now and it may be a character defect -sloth -(faint hearted in matters that are morally and spiritually difficult) but I haven't managed to develop much of a way with words in this program, nor have I gone too far in exploring other options. I have tended to accept the program as it was written and I am sure you can see that in the way I write- very predictable. I very much admire your gift with words, your description/explanation of the steps is wonderful to read and gives me yet another new way of looking at things. I much prefer it to another analysis of AA's 12 steps presented in a speech by an eminent psychiatrist and friend of AA in NZ, who said the programme would turn greedy self lovers into generous other lovers. I am very glad you are working directly with David, he couldn't be in better hands as far as I can see. I do sincerely hope you and David, with God's help, will be able to address those 9th step issues at the right time. It was essential fro me in order to make the external world feel comfortable.
God bless, Mike H.
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Friday 18th of November 2011 04:05:22 AM
Just wanted to echo what Mike said above ... you do have a gift with words ... and better yet, the experience and wisdom to make them useful in teaching others(me) ...
Ya know John, your 'closet' analogy is a good way to perceive our daily attitude and spiritual conviction ... and I can relate to it easily ... and when you mentioned 'As a Man Thinketh' it reminded me of a conversation with an old sponsor ... we were having coffee in a 'book store' and I mentioned something about some 'self-help' books ... it went something like this:
He asked me if I had any self-help books at home ... I said sure, I got a bunch of them!
He said, ..... my God, ..... Go home and get rid of all of them ...
I said Why?
He said, you're trying to build up the very person you're trying to get RID of ... the only self-help books you'll ever need are the BB of Acoholics Anonymous and the 12x12, period ...
He went on to say that it was my thinking that was wrong ... I said, how much of my thinking is wrong? ... He said We always start with 'All of It' .... I said you put a sign on the wall over there that sez ... THINK THINK THINK ... He said I know, ....... that's for us .... (I was new)
John, thank you for your service, love ya and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hey David -- you've been in AA since 96, then you know the drilll -- get to meetings, work the steps, get to meetings work the steps.
You've been in AA since 96 and you've seen a lot of folks who looked like they had it down pat, AA superstars, saying how they never drank again after the first meeting, life beyond their wildest dreams, always share about they're such good people now, blah blah wind up going out there again in 2-3 years and never make it back.
You've been in since 96 and have also seen the folks who looked like they would never get it, the folks that the types above would look at and roll their eyes...get it, after 3, 5, 10, 20 years...and really get it, and stop and stay stopped. Nothing says you can't be one of the latter folks.
