Torches and Pitchforks...I Bring You SCIENCE!

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

Torches and Pitchforks...I Bring You SCIENCE!

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

They say it in every meeting I've ever been to in Scotland, formally as part of the meeting, 'and remember, it's the first drink that get's you drunk.'

After that, choice is gone! Just like it says above.

Living the programme will help 99% of the time to NOT take that first drink, but there comes a time where we have no mental defence against the first drink. That's when your Higher power steps in. Some people call it coincidence, some good luck, some convince themselves that they knew all along that they could not get a drink. (Been through all that).

So here's what happened to me, in brief. I left a meeting, around good friday this year, and absolutely KNEW that I was going for a bottle of Jack (Posh alkie, that's me).

Get to the bottle shop and then - realize I don't have my wallet. Now did I know i didn't have my wallet? No. I have never left my house without my wallet in my pocket for nearly 40 years. I could see it in my mind on the kitchen table. It has my life in it. Driving licence, credit cards, cash, climbing permit, IOSH certificate, Vehicle Breakdown card.......

So first I thought coincidence, then I thought just plain good luck, then I thought that I was just plating at it, now I believe my Higher Power decided that Bill was at risk, so let's just put a little trip up in his way. He still let me continue with the rest of my plan (Violently verbally abuse my soon to be ex wife, ride my motorcycle like a lunatic, rant around my yard like a madman) so i could learn that actions have consequences (a visit from the police, a warning to stay away from the ex on threat of arrest, my son passing a message to tell me to stay away from him).

Yep, sometimes we have NO MENTAL DEFENCE against the first drink. That's when higher Power steps in and does just enough, JUST enough, to give me breathing space, to realise that the first drink get's me drunk. To remember how the video ends and to give me the chance to do the next right thing.

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

Oh. the other good thing is that from that day, I've never had that daft obsession to take my wallet with me everywhere!

Mr_David · MIP Old Timer

Hi "AM",

Thanks for the info. I know what you're hinting at "AM", and you're right...it does merit a second glance, but science and anthropology have no dealings with our disease, do they? The only thing that can put a "plug in the jug" is our desire to change, above all else. And that's where science ends and priorities begin.

Yes...some people cannot drink responsibly -quite evident by your scientific analysis, and yes... some people are more prone to "alcohol addiction" than others, but as far as the analogies are concerned...they must end there. And real life sobriety should begin elsewhere.

The goal for any alcoholic is to achieve lasting sobriety and do so on a consistent basis. We need to take certain steps, however, before we can achieve anything like permanent sobriety and it all starts with "step 1".

I had to examine the motives behind my reasoning and why??? I continued to drink. For me...it all started with denial. Then it was swallowed up by shame. Then it was by alcohol...once again. The addiction consumed everything, including my sense of reason. I was physically incapable of managing any sense of normalcy when it came to drinking. Unfortunately, this pattern of behavior almost destroyed my life, and left unchecked it eventually would. I needed to change everything or die trying. So, change I did. And believe me...it had nothing to do with science.

My intellectual self sufficiency was no match for my disease -hands down. What I needed to adopt (all along) were some real life solutions to deal with my dilemma, which eventually did happen. And when it did, the promises started to materialize. I was finally able to move beyond my fears and accept the help I so desperately needed. And haven't looked back since...thanks be to God.

I live a pretty comfortable existence today, and have for 10+ years now -due in most part, to a decision I made a long time ago. A decision to not drink... for today. I can -with the help of "AA" and my sober network- live to see another day safe and sober. And so can you, my friend...one day at a time.

~God bless~

There is a good article on alcoholism below; I think you should read...Here's the link

http://www.drugalcoholaddictionrecovery.com/?p=74

-- Edited by Mr_David on Friday 28th of October 2011 04:32:42 AM

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

AM, I think this is something you should consider as well:

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

What goes on in the brain vs. what behaviors you engage in is a BIDIRECTIONAL relationship. You can figure that when you have a spiritual shift through working an AA program, it also creates lasting changes in brain functions (as does simply not pouring daily toxins in the body). AA typically has treated Alcoholism from a point of acting and thinking one's way into better behavior. So....science is starting to catch up. This is a good thing, but it's good to remember that recovery has always existed on the level of the brain and that AA does offer that. The fact that I have coping skills now that I didn't before AA means that my neurons do not fire the same way when I encounter stress and that the "craving" centers of my brain are not tripped off like they used to be.

The problem with studying the biochemical success of treatment with AA is that it would bust anonymity and the traditions....But, I'm betting if you had before and after MRIs and CAT and PET scans from when were drank to us being sober for a while, the difference would be amazing for those of us with some longer term sobriety.

Mark

angelov8 · MIP Old Timer

I'm pretty sure there are brain scans of this nature available for viewing.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

Knowing why is interesting and all, but it doesn't make much difference to me. As long as I remember that I am powerless over alcohol the whys and wherefores don't matter that much. Over the 15 or so years that my alcoholism progressed I read almost every damn thing I could on why I was like I was. It didn't make one bit of difference to my drinking. The only thing that has made a difference was AA and the 12 steps (an organisation I avoided for those 15 years because I figured science would allow me to have my cake and eat it too).

Interesting - as I said - but ultimately useless information.

leeu · MIP Old Timer

"Interesting - as I said - but ultimately useless information. "

I gotta say I don't understand viewing info about the science of addiction as "useless". I have found, in several decades of continuous sobriety and progressively positive growth, that every bit of additional information about this disease has been valuable.

In addition to getting and staying sober, and spiritually growing with the steps, I have learned to change my nutrition, all my health approaches, practice science-based relapse prevention, improve sleep, cope with stress and so much more. Of course the science didn't do me much good when I was using, but it sure has helped with recovery and relapse prevention.

To me, just as diabetic needs to know a bit more than "just don't eat the cake", so does this alcoholic who wants to get the most mileage out of whatever life is left to enjoy. Alcoholism carries so much shame and stigma and guilt...knowing on the medical/scientific level how our bodies/brains work--including in recovery-- helps me to divest myself of that needless self-blame and shame, as though I willfully "caused" it.

Aquaman · MIP Old Timer

Hey...all I'm saying is that "the allergy of the body" is being explained. In the 30's a couple A COUPLE of doctors had AN INKLING that there was a physiological reason alkies can't stop at just one and would go to irresposible and dangerous lengths to get more. Now we know more.

I am NOT saying that the Spititual part of the program, the complete and total yieding to Faith in our HP is non-essential. OF COURSE it is. It's the keystone beneath we pass through our arche du triumph into a sober life. I'm still in AA, aren't I?

It helps me, and maybe some other hopeless, confused, frustrated newbie to know that A) 12% of all human meat-bags are alkies and we're lucky enough to have found a better way to live , B) "please drink responsibly" isn't even a freakin' possibility for us and C) one is too many.

I'm not making excuses. Every drink I took was a choice. I am accountable for every action. I own my pain, shame and guilt and only God can lift that from and restore me to sanity; a.k.a. honesty, patience, virtue.

I respect the expressions of everybody here. Why? If you've crossed Step 3...your words are God's intent.

Another thing to note, in 40 years AA's sober-recovery rate has gone from the upper 50% to less than 10%. Maybe that's due to counting "sheet signers", but I also see plenty of people come in, go back out, and never come back. Could a little more understanding of the physiology of their "allergy of the body" brought them to a few more meetings to see how other people with that same genetic pre-dispositon get whole and happy again? Dunno. Only God knows and he's not tellin'.

Frodo · MIP Old Timer

I probably should have typed 'in my experience' or 'to me' a couple of times. I don't discount anything helping anyone. The AA method of spiritual over intellect is what works for me but if anything from pure reason to pure superstition worked for or helped somebody else then good luck to them. I can only ever speak for myself and reflect on my experiences where my intellectual knowledge of this did not stop me having one drink and probably caused me to have many more as I gave into defeat (science can't cure it so I might as well have another drink until they get a cure) and conceit (only 'pretend' alcoholics use AA to give up because science told me real ones can't so why bother).

I don't consider what you are saying as any sort of heresy, it's just my take on my world.

Rob84 · MIP Old Timer

Hi Rob, Welcome back.

The medical stuff sounds reasonable and may give more details into Dr Silkworth's physical allergy.

My experience is that often those who focus on the scientific reasons for their problems have more difficulty in recovery.

I tell people I work with to take responsibility for their Alcoholism and their recovery.

I chose to think I just drank too much too long too often. Nobody ever forced me.

Either "I" pick up a drink or "I" don't. If "I" don't the physical allergy never begins. When we work the AA program we learn not to pick up and will not "want" to pick up.