"Secondary aids to A.A., such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration, ought to be incorporated and so set apart that, if necessary, they can be freely discarded by the groups. Hence such facilities ought not to use the A.A. name."
We've all been to meetings in church basements, hospitals and clubhouses were A.A. groups rent space to hold meetings. Some of these groups might hold an open speaker meeting on a regular basis. It's also not uncommon for an outside facility to invite an A.A. speaker to speak at a social event.
My question is when is it OK for an outside facility to organize a social event and represent the event as an A.A. meeting?
-- Edited by rrib on Thursday 6th of October 2011 11:06:36 AM
i'd say never. AA's can organise a social event under the AA banner, maybe, but I'd say that rehabs, treatment centres and the like should not align themselves with AA to this extent - maybe even not at all - because they are not AA. we hold AA meetings in a 12 step treatment centre, but the treatment centre although almost entirely staffed by AAs and owned and managed by a fellowship member, does not align itself with AA beyond stating that it follows a 12 step recovery programme. They introduce their customers to AA (and NA as appropriate) under the understanding that their customers attendance is voluntary, there is NO AA advertising on their website or any other advertising medium, the room we use is segregated from teh rest of the facility and we pay a fair rent for use of the premises. they also make their customers aware of other recovery programmes that are available. This is about as good as it gets. in no way would the facility claim allegiance or links to AA nor would they organise an event under the AA banner.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Your question is slightly difficult to understand. Why would an outside facility want to organize an AA meeting as a social event? What kind of facility? Is it a theatre putting on a dramatised AA meeting, which I suppose is one way you could have an AA meeting as a social event?
We do have of course institutional meetings such as in prisons and some rehabs and locally these are classified as such in the meeting timetable so those attending are aware that the meeting is not regular AA - for example such meetings do not usually have a group conscience and are not self supporting in the sense of our community based meetings. They are more of an introduction to AA for after treatment or sentence is finished.
Then (and this happened recently in my town) you get the odd deluded reccovering alcoholic who sees a way to make a living out of the 12 steps. Our local hero started a club which he like to call "a pub with no beer" a drop in centre with lunch time meetings which he wanted to list as regular meetings even though there was no group conscience. The money from 7 trad went to his organisation for example. New comers were unaware of the distinctions. Then we had the earthquake which closed the regular lunchtime AA venue, so those meetings moved to this club. Next thing we know, a big newspaper article appears describing this wonderful rehab facility (the drop in centre) and the hundreds of alcholics and addicts it is now treating as a result of the earthquake. It turns out he was getting funding from the health authorities based on attendance of "clients" and he was counting those that came to attend AA meetings as clients for this purpose. What can you do? Ask him to respect the traditions, ask him not to mislead newcomers, but beyond that not very much. In our case God put on another earthquake which closed the place down, thankfully with no injuries.
We also recently had an invitation to attend a community health day, and staff an AA stand. Our intergroup decided not to participate based on their understanding of the traditions. We later concluded that we could and should have participated as there was no breach of traditions. It was a great opportunity to carry the message and not all that different to PI speakers in schools or community organisations.
If a facility is using the AA name inappropriately, my first course would be to take the matter up with my group and ask the GSR to take it up with Inter Group or Area committees or delegates. These folks can take the matter to the people (Trustees/board members) who are the guardians of our fellowship in a legal sense.
God Bless,
Mike H
-- Edited by Fyne Spirit on Thursday 6th of October 2011 10:51:17 PM
Why would an outside facility want to organize an AA meeting as a social event? What kind of facility?
...
Our local hero started a club which he like to call "a pub with no beer" a drop in centre with lunch time meetings which he wanted to list as regular meetings even though there was no group conscience. The money from 7 trad went to his organisation for example. New comers were unaware of the distinctions.
Let me be more clear.
Certainly when an A.A. Group holds an Open Meeting there is no question it is an A.A. meeting and they tell the public 'This is an Open Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous'.
Sometimes outside facilities may invite an A.A. speaker to their place;
'Welcome to Acne Rehab Center, today we've invited John C. to speak about his experience with A.A.' No problem.
We have a 3rd scenario here which is not so clear.
We have club-houses which take charge of regular weekly speaker meetings. There are no A.A. groups holding the meetings. The board of directors of the club-houses have total control over the meetings which are merged into fun social things like bingo, cards, cake, coffee and fellowship.
Clearly, clubs are not A.A. They are out-side facilities. Clubs are specifically mentioned in Tradition 6. This is why they are called Alano Clubs or Serenity Clubs, etc.
So is it OK to open these meetings with the declaration "This is an Open Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous"?
These clubs only allow well-qualified alcoholics to serve on the board. Apparently the thinking here is that since it is the board members who take turns chairing the weekly event, the event qualifies as an 'Open Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous'.
They even pass the basket stating they are following the 7th Tradition even though all the money goes to the club-house. The G.S.O. stopped accepting donations from club-houses years ago. Naturally the meeting is also un-registered.
I believe this is a fairly common practice around here.
The G.S.O. publication A.A. Guidelines Relationship Between A.A. and Clubs doesn't seem to address this issue other than stating "Even though the group meets in a club that may be composed exclusively of A.A. members, and many members of the group may be club members, too, the relationship of the A.A. group itself to the club should be the same as it would be to a church, hospital, school, or other facility in which it might rent space for its meetings."
-- Edited by rrib on Friday 7th of October 2011 01:41:37 AM
Sounds like the same sort of thing as here. Apart from trad 6 and the AA guidelines about clubs, trad 3 long form also states "Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA group, provided that, as group, they have no other affiliation. S13 AA Service Manual. Our local boy is always quick to point out that his society is a non-profit one. He must think we came down in the last shower. The way a non profit society makes no profit is to use all its income to pay its costs, and its costs include the wages of those who work there. You don't have to be an Einstein to see how money can be made in this situation. The whole thing is totally dishonest, immoral and not within our traditions.
But it is an outside entity and other than polite requests to respect our traditions, there does not seem to be much we can do. The only positive step we have taken here (at intergroup level) is to adopt a policy that no group from this venue is shown in our meeting list or on the GSO website unless they are registered with GSO, and have a group conscience with an elected GSR. Even this is difficult to police. Unfortunately the hero has got himself on the after hours phone (can you believe it?) and the chair of Intergroup refuses to remove him despite the obvious conflict of interest. The problem runs deeper, the Chair is from another fellowship, one that thinks its members must be alcoholics even if they are not, and so does not have the same imperative to protect the newcomer. Just another way the "all inclusive" approach harms the new alcoholic. Incindentally, there were a few drinking casualties after the earthquake that closed the club. These newbies thought AA had closed down, they thought they had joined AA but had only joined a club. Actually, you might call that fraud. So the club is closed at the moment but our hero is working hard to get it open again.
I would guess the proper announcment for your fellows would have to be "This is an open meeting of the such and such group of Alcoholics Anonymous" and if a registered AA group isn't sponsoring the meeting then how can it be an AA meeting?
Just another way the "all inclusive" approach harms the new alcoholic.
The situation here is the OTHER side of this coin. Since the club only accepts alcoholics as members and since their charter specifilly prohibits renting space to non-aa groups, they have license to use the A.A. name whenever they choose - for their social events and fund raising campaings.
Rainspa wrote:
They get very popular and then die.
This is a long-standing practice in SE Wisconsin. I would not be surprised if its gone on at some clubs since they were formed in the 1950's.
Hey, I'm quiet fond of these places. Having a place to hang out were I was 'safe' was important to me. Since I'm here anyway, I might as well attend another meeting. I didn't even KNOW they were seperate from A.A. until just this past year.
This is very specific and a different than questioning the value of clubs.
The value of clubs isn't in question, nor is the value of social events. There are AA events: The World Convention, Local conventions and Round Up's. There are meetings at those events, and dances and dinners and breakfasts.
Are they AA meetings? Actual meetings at temporary events, sure. The Dance? Not so much, but that's no reason not to go. The Breakfasts and Dinners? After the meal, there's a speaker meeting, so about fifty/fifty. (and in my experience the banquet rooms are opened up when the speaker meeting starts) They are sponsored, sanctioned and run by AA. You can find them on the AA site, or on intergroup sites.
The question as I read it has to do with what is, and is not an AA meeting.
Some easy ways to tell:
Is it listed in the local AA directory? (or is it an in-house only-at-this-organization directory?) Does the group have a GSR (General Service Representative)? Are there business meetings? Are the issues of the group decided by group concience?
Club houses have real AA meetings listed in the directory, with service positions, group decisions, are self supporting and do just fine.
ALMOST AA organizations tend to self destruct. Significant differences.
Is it listed in the local AA directory? (or is it an in-house only-at-this-organization directory?) Does the group have a GSR (General Service Representative)? Are there business meetings? Are the issues of the group decided by group concience?
Club houses have real AA meetings listed in the directory, with service positions, group decisions, are self supporting and do just fine.
Our local directories list registered meetings with an (R) next to the meeting time. These meetings are in the local directory but without an (R).
No group, GSR or business meeting. The membership of the club-house holds a membership meeting, making decisions based upon 'group conscience'.
Thesituation here is the OTHER side of this coin. Since the club only accepts alcoholics as members and since their charter specifilly prohibits renting space to non-aa groups, they have license to use the A.A. name whenever they choose - for their social events and fund raising campaings.
Rainspa wrote:
They get very popular and then die.
This is a long-standing practice in SE Wisconsin. I would not be surprised if its gone on at some clubs since they were formed in the 1950's.
Could it be this "Club" is, in effect, an AA group (Existing just for its primary purpose with no other affiliation) that has chosen to ignore tradition 6 and maybe 7? Or does it receive funding from outside sources and if it does, does the funding represent an affiliation?
It seems unlikely that Goverment funding would be available to an organization focussed solely on alcoholics given that the popular political view is that all substance abuse is the same and therefore the treatment should be common to all.
How did they get a licence to use the AA name? I may have mentioned this before but when one of our groups advertises a public meeting it does so as the such and such group of AA.
Someone metioned the benefits of clubs in early sobriety. When I came in our service centre had a sort of small coffee lounge adjacent to the central city meeting room. This room held meetings twice a day, midday and evening. The coffee lounge was open same hours as the service centre 10 am to 3 pm, and was a great help to me in the first few weeks. The place was supervised by the office workers and they would make sure we went into the meeting each day. The whole thing was run and funded by the local inergroup. It was always contentious as many thought it breached tradition 6 even though no property was involved. Eventually it was shut down, but I often think that was a shame. The majority of those attending the rooms were unemployed, newly sober, or slippees returning. The meetings weren't great from a sobriety point of view but they were good for identification, I fitted right in for a while until I was told that the real sobriety existed in the suburban meetings so I eventually made my way there. The rooms definitely served a positive purpose and there were other benefits which I won't go into here.
Now these same folks go to a club over which our local AA has no control, that claims to offer AA meetings, and at the very least, misleads the newcomers. Of course the club is multi addiction for funding purposes and has meetings for other fellowships too.
Our old AA rooms system actually looks a better option to me.
Could it be this "Club" is, in effect, an AA group (Existing just for its primary purpose with no other affiliation) that has chosen to ignore tradition 6 and maybe 7?
Tradition 3 states "... Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation."
The G.S.O. phamplet A.A. Guidlines Relationship Between A.A. and Clubs states "...A discussion on clubs during the 1967 General Service Conference noted that, although there is no such thing as an A.A. club", many clubs have been identified with A.A. because they are often organized and directed by A.A. members and membership may be limited to A.A.s."
-- Edited by rrib on Sunday 9th of October 2011 10:29:31 AM
