With all the earnestness and sincerity I could summon I laid in bed and shook my fist at the ceiling and said "Alright buddy, if you're for real I demand that you help me! I don't want some halfassed motivation or some weak guidence! I want to be cured right here, right now. If it doesnt happen than I guess you're just a big lame fairytale."
Oddly enough afterward I felt strangely better with a hopeful outlook at the prospect of my life changing for the better. I actually felt a sence of peace and contentent and I thought to my self "Hm, maybe there's something to this god business". I lasted less than 24 hours.
Either there is no god or if there is he/she's forsaken me. So now what?
That's not only inaccurate but also a little hurtful.
I've struggled with problem drinking for a long time and I've tried to stop many times on my own and through AA. My actions a few days ago were out of desperation and a desire for relief from the pain my drinking causes me and those I love.
If you find what I said offensive I can't help that. I just ask that you refrain from rushing to judgment because there's a good possiblity that you will unintentionally end up kicking someone when he or she is down and at a time when he/she could use a kind word the most.
-- Edited by TipsyMcstagger on Saturday 30th of July 2011 08:59:11 PM
I dunno---I think the troll's kinda cute--can I just give him a piece of cantelope?
I can "get" what each of you posted, yet be completely wrong---it's hard on boards, when there's not really a fluid conversation, can't discern tone, motive etc-no facial expressions, no voice, you know? . I know I've managed to offend when I was being in "tough love" mode, and certainly have been offended from time to time, felt hurt, needed kindness, but have also received hard truths and much kindness, and had my wounds salved here. Thank heavens we don't have to be perfect.
As far as God and alcoholism go, all I know is that this disease has no known cure, and my desparate, angry demands got me nowhere---but God could and would provide relief, if I sought him, based on my own concept of a higher power. I came into the program an atheist and didn't get around to seeking spirituality for quite a while. When I did, there was no flash of lightning and sudden release from the hold of the drink, but there was a gradual increase of hope and strength and ability to go to any lengths to get and stay sober. Talking about that struggle was rough--one of the few subjects I'd say where "take what you can use and leave the rest" might actually apply. But talking about it, a lot, was necessary.
"Either there is no god or if there is he/she's forsaken me. So now what?" For me I found it to be not so black and white, either-or. I was using that as a way to keep control, to not genuinely and humbly surrender, to be "not-God" myself. Maybe the "now what" is just to get back into the quest. (Came to Believe)
you've been pulling "hit and run" posts like this for years on this forum, for years I was a staunch supporter, no no he seems "real" I would say when others called you a troll, but after the last 6-7 times you posted, asked for help, then never even replied...fugget...shit or get off the pot Tipsy, thing is I really like you, I like your humor drunk or sober, but I thought this was too far even for you, I have read your posts on other "pro-alcohol" forums and liked you there as well, but don't come here and waste our time with false BS
AA is for people who want to get sober, not get drunk and post on AA forums, want to do that, find me on Facebook, I'm as big an asshole as anyone there, crude, rude, socially unacceptable, and funny, here, this is AA, this is for people who WANT to get sober, and people who WANT something take action, sobriety is a VERB son, so is LOVE, and so is RESPECT, these things require ACTION, actual MOVEMENT, not just sitting there drinking a fifth of Jack and having a waa waa pity party and posting on some AA forums, I can't seem to -glug glug- quit drinking...that dog don't hunt Tipsy
As my signature says, willingness without action is fantasy, want to make friends here? want support? get off your ass and take action, otherwise we'll just wave as you go by on the way down and use you as an example of a great guy who was intelligent and witty but not willing, never took action, or just plain would get drunk and come stir the hornets nest once every six months for shits and giggles
you prolly "too smart" for AA, which is a crying shame, cause aint no one too stupid, and you seem to be a fairly typical alcoholic, which is a highly sensitive, above average in inteeligence human being who can't fit in with the world around him so he hides behind humor, booze and ridiculing others, which I reiterate, is a crying shame, cause I like you, I like you a lot, but here you are a waste of space and time -unless you take some action-
I'm serious, wanna be FB friends? PM me, I suspect we'll both be surprised, but stop tossing emotional crumbs to a group of raving codependents to get your own perverse needs met
-- Edited by LinBaba on Saturday 30th of July 2011 11:18:54 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Either there is no god or if there is he/she's forsaken me. So now what?
Maybe you are just the example, y'know. Maybe you are there to keep me sober. Maybe you are the reminder of what a sick person is and why I don't want to go back to being anything like that.
Maybe if you HUMBLY asked God to remove your defects of character who knows. Worked for me.... Oh and I also quit blaming God and took responsibilty for my actions. Just saying.
MyHigher power doesn't respond well to demands, ultimatums and bargaining. My HP responds well when I ask.
Step One = Identify the problem
Step 2 = Found out who can help
Step 3 = ASKED for the help (not demanded, no ultimatums no bargaining)
Step 4 = find out about yourself
Step 5 = share what you believe you have found out about yourself with yourself (so you know)your higher power (so HP knows that you know) and another human being (so if it get's out you know who's legs to break, but it's a problem shared)
Step 6 = become willing to change yourself
Step 7 = ask for ehlp to change
Step 8 = identify who you harmed, how and why, become willing to put the past to rights as best you can
Step 9 = Go for it. Put the past to rights as best you can.
Step 10 = Ooops. I did it again. Identify and put right
Step 11 = get into the habit of relaxing and thinking and asking HP for help
Step 12 = Having changed, go help others to do the same, by living an example and keep on doing steps 1 through 11.
Tipsy me duck. You're still at Step 0 = still drinking, still hanging onto old ideas, because maybe, deep down, you don't want to quit for good. The spiritual awakening having the desire to not drink, having the desire to be sober, doesn't happen until a person honestly embraces at least Step 1.Didn't happen for me until I'd got to half way through step 9.
Thanks for your reminder of how it was for me. Bon Chance old chap.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
AA is not for wimps and neither is life. Pray to God for strength and willingness then YOU have to take action. I could pray 24-7 and what would happen? Nothing. I have to live life, make choices, and do the footwork.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Aloha Tipsy...that is partly what worked for me also...found myself looking up at my ceiling counting the holes in the ceiling tiles in the dark and reaching above me and saying "Please help me" and it worked...The fear went away including the fear of stepping over the fence from where I was at to where I needed to be. Let all responses be helpful in holding you to this journey. There is alot of fear and self centeredness in the program. I was soooo used to practicing "self will run riot" and "natural egotism" that I would never give a conscious thought about the more appropriate program way of living unless I was consciously working it for all it was worth. "My only problem is me and my only solution is God" taught to me by another female member of Alcoholics Anonymous for which I am extreemly grateful.
There is absolutely no one in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous that has the power to trip up your jouney unless you allow it. "Abandon yourself to God as you understand God, admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past and follow (out of context) those who will support your recovery and spiritual growth. In support. (((((hugs)))))
Well, I am getting a clue that there is some "history" here. Tipsy is new to me, so I gotta say, I don't care for posts loaded with pointed or implied "inside knowledge" about somebody else's inventory/program/motives-whatever. Just because we think we know--or even know we know-things about another member, does not mean that disclosing such on a public Internet site is an ethical thing to do. If nothing else, it can poison the well for those of us who are not "in" on the back story.
And bye-the-bye, LinBaba, what the heck is "...but stop tossing emotional crumbs to a group of raving codependents to get your own perverse needs met" supposed to mean? Maybe I'm missing something, but gee, on the face of it that sounds kinda...well... like a put-down. Hope I'm misperceiving what I am reading.
Leeu, I am sorry that you are bothered by what I wrote, but I would do the same thing again in a heartbeat, what I find unethical is him showing up every six months or so with -VERY- carefully worded controversial posts to cause a big response, then just leaving for six months, once he's forgotten, he'll be back in 6 months or a year, stir up the pot, then leave again, so it's not that your feelings aren't important to me, it's just we have different views on this matter and I am going to speak my mind regardless of how it affects your feelings, I AM sorry about that (that it bothers you) but there is nothing I can do about that
as far as the "raving codependents" comment, there is nothing "implied" there, it's right there in black and white, he comes in and says the right things and the group descends to save him like a group kindergartener students on ecstasy rescuing a kitten with a hurt paw, but nor is it an insult, codependency and alcoholism are two sides of the same coin that share about 95% of the same traits, just dressed in different clothes, if you care to discuss it, come over to the codependency board (where I am now a moderator lol) and we can discuss what traits codies and alkies share in common, scratch an alky and find a codie, same distorted view of self importance, lack of boundaries etc that's why the truth is Ii would say 80-90% of the 12 by 12 actually addresses that, the 12 and 12 is as good a book about codependency as I have ever seen in my life, especially steps 4-9...and...3 ...and...10...11...and...12 haha
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Regardless of this particular poster's motivation in asking the question, he's certainly not the first newly sober person to ask the question, "Either there is no god or if there is he/she's forsaken me. So now what?"
So for anyone out there coming to this thread because they had this question in mind, let me just respond: You are asking the wrong question. Those are not the only two options. Just keep working a program, keep putting one foot in front of the other, keep staying sober one day at a time, and you will gain more clarity. You'll learn that the question is not "Does my Higher Power not exist or has my Higher Power forsaken me?" but rather, "When I asked for one result and got something different, what am I supposed to be learning by getting a different result?"
Just keep working a program, keep putting one foot in front of the other, keep staying sober one day at a time, and you will gain more clarity. You'll learn that the question is not "Does my Higher Power not exist or has my Higher Power forsaken me?" but rather, "When I asked for one result and got something different, what am I supposed to be learning by getting a different result?"
I have just said a prayer of thanks that you actually did that Tipsy. That is a big step. I am glad you felt something back. Do it more often and with a bit more humility. Talk to God. You talked, and for 24 hours, you felt the presence. What would happen if, like so many before you, you prayed in earnest more than once a day? I am really happy you felt it. I think God is like a real father. You can stamp your foot and beg for help from your real father, and out of love he ignores the demand/challenge and gives you the help. In fairness to yourself you now have to admit you may have gotten a result. Try the next test. Drop to your knees and meekly ask for the help and ask God to take your drinking problem from you for 24 hours. Give the problem to God. Let us know what happens. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
i am a "typical alcoholic, which is a highly sensitive, above average in intelligence human being who doesn't know how to fit in with the world around her so she hides behind humor, booze" (I cut out the "and ridiculing others" because that is just not me.
this is my first time on this site and this really hit home for me. i do feel sorry for myself, although i don't want to and i don't know how to stop. i am one of those people who has EVERYTHING, a loving husband (although he doesn't know how to help and sometimes is much less than understanding), 4 BEAUTIFUL kids, a supportive mother and friends, but yet i always end up going back. i have failed at becoming sober 3 times this year so far. i start out with stopping completely, feeling GREAT after about a week for a week or so. then i end up giving in to a beer, then it turns to 5 or 6 a night, then its not enough and back to the vodka i go. im 30 years old and am terrified. i take excellent care of my body other than the drinking. i am very active, maintain a healthy diet, but sure enough within a few weeks of returning to the vodka im drinking by noon or 1 everyday. im so tired of doing this to my family. anyway, im ranting and writing a book at this point. LOL. i had my last drink the night before last and last night was AWFUL, sweating to the point where i had to change my clothes everytime i woke up. terrible nightmares, i just feel like crying. any advice will help. i thought that maybe trying something i hadn't before (writing this now) maybe it will give me a new shot at this. i want to see my kids get married and my grandkids someday but at this point i either going to die young or they will end up hating me. how do i stop this before its too late? okay, now im fully crying so i am going to stop because i don't want my kids to see me. thanks for reading and any input is more than welcome.
ps - i have done alot of thinking about why i go back everytime and what i have come up with so far is that i don't like who i am when im not drinking, im no fun, im irritable, im just plain miserable and feel so very misunderstood. and if i don't like me how could anyone else? does this pass? is this a typical thing when a person becomes sober? does it ever end?!? i know i have more to offer than what i am putting out into the world, sober or not. thanks again.
lostlyndsey wrote:ps - i have done alot of thinking about why i go back everytime and what i have come up with so far is that i don't like who i am when im not drinking, im no fun, im irritable, im just plain miserable and feel so very misunderstood. and if i don't like me how could anyone else? does this pass? is this a typical thing when a person becomes sober? does it ever end?!? i know i have more to offer than what i am putting out into the world, sober or not. thanks again.
I think this should be a new thread, since most of us have been ignoring the troll's thread all week.... anyway, you have hit on the crux of the matter. I discovered that I didn't have a drinking problem, I had a living problem. I didn't drink so I could stand the world, I drank so I could stand myself. The answer was to change me, but I could not change me while I was drinking. So first, put the plug in the jug, and then work on making me into a person I don't hate, and eventually a person I even like most of the time. I've been surprised that this didn't involve a systematic erasing of my entire personality... LOL. I'm largely the same person I was when I was drinking, largely the same person I was before I drank, largely the same person I was when I was two years old and I have my earliest memories of being stubborn, willful, yet curious and opinionated. I just had to stop trying to be something else, or pretend to be something else. I found my self-loathing came largely from lying to myself... and this was realized when I was trying to do phony affirmations in the mirror and hearing my brain scream "liar! liar!!" And I really do hate liars.
A lot of work and a lot of pain. But it starts with putting the plug in the jug, and step one.
Aloha lyn...What worked for me was patience and practice...both at the same time. NOT drinking is new to you and I was told I had to practice the opposite. When I stopped a whole host of things stopped also those things that came with the drinking. I didn't go thru withdrawals but haven't stopped going thru the compulsion to and drinking dreams and the subconscious memory events. I've been alcohol free for many years. I've never met a patent alcoholic. When I'm around the fellowship and hear another member say I'm a real alcoholic I don't relate cause I am really alcoholic with a few different twists of experience.
You've tried and you've wanted to while you have reasons to and reasons not to so maybe you're just not ready? Maybe you will have to loose it all first. Try imgaining it...waking up some day and they are and it is all gone including your self esteem and desire to live. I've been told that my toxic shocks were suicide attempts and that my yellowish/green color was something my liver was wanting to let me in on and still I had not lost enough. I lost it all when my early sponsor told me I had to separate myself from everything alcohol and I did and all that was left was the fellowship of recovery...that's all needed even when it wasn't what I wanted. Strange journey but must have been done properly cause I'm still alcohol free, mostly sober and sane, have a power greater than myself who still within easy reach and willing to support others who want about the same.
For me it's practice, practice, practice...go ahead and try that. ((((hugs))))
