I always laugh when someone refers to 12 step programs like AA as a cult.
Those of us on the inside know nothing is further from the truth.
A Cult requires a leader and if there's a leader in the 12 step world I've yet to meet them.
But then I got to thinking on how I perceived the 12 step world before I got involved.
When I was in out patient treatment and I saw the list of the different 12 step groups I thought AA was like General Motors the head corporation of the 12 step world and all the other programs were like Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge etc.
When I went to my 1st meeting I thought the secretary was a high ranking mucky muck in the AA hierarchy, turns out the truth was he had 6 months and his sponsor volunteered him for the position.
Perception and reality are two very different things, I have to constantly remind myself that the general public's view of the recovery world and 12 step programs is probably very different from the reality.
-- Edited by cooncatbob on Saturday 30th of July 2011 05:56:53 PM
__________________
Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
Perception and reality are two very different things, I have to constantly remind myself that the general public's view of the recovery world and 12 step programs is probably very different from the reality.
So true...
Albert Einstien once said:
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
Douglass Adams once said:
"Everything you see, hear or experience in any way at all, is specific to you. You create a universe by perceiving it, so everything in the universe you perceive is specific to you."
One last quote by Tony Clark:
"It's important to be conscious of your perception, because if you're not, someone else will create it for you."
How true...You can either be conscious(aware) or you can be misled. The choice is up to you.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 30th of July 2011 03:43:26 PM
And AA DOES have SOME of the characteristics of a cult.
It doesn't, however, have all of them, or even a majority of them.
Some of the ways we don't qualify as a cult:
Money - there is only so much an AA member can contribute.
Control- AA really doesn't care where you work, or who you date or what you eat. Sometimes a sponsor might go a little overboard, but you are always free to find a new sponsor, new group and new folks to hang out with. You are still in AA until you say you're not.
Religion - The Big Book specifically suggests you go back to what ever religion you were before you drank too much to make it to church, temple or mosque. Or not.
Group Membership - You are a member of AA when you say "I'm a member of AA"; the ONLY requirement is a desire to stop drinking. You stop being a member when you want to, or when you don't want to stop drinking.
God - You get to decide on YOUR concept of God. AA (the program -steps 12, in order, as written) is a way to help you get there; who you find is between the two of you.
Competition - We are not the only way to get sober. We think, based on evidence, that if you work the steps (1-12, in order, as written) AA rarely fails. But "if you can drink like a gentleman" using a different method "our hats are off to you".
WE VOTE ON STUFF - Cults are not known for their democratic ways. AA groups will have a GSR, and representation all the way to the General Service Conference. We make decisions and govern ourselves, and every AA from their very first day can be part of that.
Cult have a leader who issues orders. If you try that with an alcoholic they're likely to do the opposite just out of spite. We don't tell each other what to do, the Big Books makes suggestions and members share what worked or didn't work for them. But the normmy world doesn't have a clue, they think we sit around and drink coffee and smoke cigarettes and smile and say "Hi I'm so and so and I'm a Alcoholic"
__________________
Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
Rather than bothering with the argument, I always say that I don't really care if AA is a cult. They've given me my sobriety, a new outlook on life, and a great community. In exchange I have been deprived of few bucks and a few hours a week. If AA is a cult, it's one I'm happy to be a member of.
well i don't have a problem with others referring to the cult of AA as I know it ain't. AA hasn't taken all my wordly possessions off me, hasn't demanded allegiance with or without a blood oath, leaves me free to challenge anything and everything there is, don't demand observance of anything.
But (there's always a but isn't there) i get uncomfortable with the way some people seem to hero worship the founders. 'were it not for Bill W. and Dr. Bob and the good old timers we wouldn't have AA.'
well maybe we would, just not as it is now or was then and maybe not right now but later and maybe not as we know it but different.
The problem is mine. I can understand people taking in various sites of historical interest but I have heard some people describe it as making a pilgrimage. I have heard people openly claiming that Bill W was the greatest person to walk this earth. I have heard people claim that the solution to any problem is found in the first 164 pages of the book. I have my doubts. If I need outside help, I'll take it. the book will remind me to go get it, but I wouldn't for example take a brother recovering alkie into court to represent me unless he was a qualified attorney with a good record. I wouldn't look in the book for details on how to set a broken leg, but it would remind me that I maybe need outside help. I think this is what people perhaps have heard and misunderstood.
there was a woman I kneww who went against her doctors advice regards anit depressants and stopped them dead, because she believed another who said all you need is the book. really messed her up.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
There does seem to be a small "Cult of Bill W" worshipers, and their existence seems to give credence to people who claim AA as a whole is a cult, or those who simply like to dig up all the dirt they can on William Griffith Wilson - which ain't hard, he was human like the rest of us. That's like saying America is a fraud because George Washington owned slaves.
In fact most of the anti-AA stuff on line uses some really weird examples to make their case. Ultra hard-core groups that don't follow the traditions (especially #3), those that practice authoritarian sponsor worship, etc. I've never been to a meeting like this. Certainly encountered individuals with those beliefs, but they're one of many in a regular meeting, their opinion means no more or less than anyone else's. I was actually kind of surprised to learn of some of these outlandish groups.
The media doesn't know how to portray AA, and IMO they shouldn't even try but we have no say in whether they do or not. Even if I were a filmmaker myself, I'd leave AA out of it. Not just the news media, but fictional media that features a character who goes to AA meetings. TV shows portray AA either as a bunch of self-righteous prohibitionists or an assemblage of ne'er do wells whose sobriety can be measured in minutes rather than years. I've certainly witnessed a real-life slice of the latter by attending a meeting in the heard of Hollywood... LOL. But even at that meeting, there was some solid sobriety and I found people to talk to.
It really doesn't matter to me whether AA is a cult, religion, science, a fellowship, or a bunch of delusional nuts... nor does it matter to me whether alcoholism is a medical disease, a moral deficiency, a mental illness, or pure weakness. What I have to do to stay sober remains the same.
First off I never said it bothered me that some people think AA and other 12 step programs are cult. Knowing what a cult is and how the 12 step world works, the comparisons are ludicrous. My point was society as a whole has no idea what goes on inside these rooms and was using my own misconceptions as a example. Some people will try to use statics to prove the 12 steps don't work, there an old saying, there's lies. damm lies and there's statics. Anybody can make stats back up their argument. I've been to conventions where 10,000 recovering people were doing the birthday countdown so I know that it works, just like I know AA isn't a cult. The courts must like AA, they keep sending offenders to meeting to get their court cards signed.
-- Edited by cooncatbob on Tuesday 2nd of August 2011 08:44:00 PM
__________________
Work like you don't need the money
Love like you've never been hurt, and
dance like no one is watching.
