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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Alcoholics Anonymous -> Alcoholics Anonymous -> Peace
Post Info TOPIC: Peace
TipsyMcStagger


Veteran Member

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Peace
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I apologize for the tone of my recent posts. I was reacting to comments that I took offense to and was somewhat hurt by. No one likes to be told they're wrong, or weak or that they aren't sincere...especially when the comments are coming from strangers who are far from perfect themselves. I've read the big book and nowhere in it did I see anything about casting judgement or questioning the desire of anyone who expresses an interest in stopping drinking. None of us have the right to declare anyone's path right or wrong.

This all reminded me of a passage from a book I love called The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran. I hope you enjoy it.

"Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world.

But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you,

So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.

And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,

So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.

Like a procession you walk together towards your god-self.

You are the way and the wayfarers.

And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.

Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone.

And this also, though the word lie heavy upon your hearts:

The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,

And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.

The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,

And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.

Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,

And still more often the condemned is the burden-bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.

You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;

For they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the white are woven together.

And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth, and he shall examine the loom also.

If any of you would bring judgment the unfaithful wife,

Let him also weight the heart of her husband in scales, and measure his soul with measurements.

And let him who would lash the offender look unto the spirit of the offended.

And if any of you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the ax unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;

And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful and the fruitless, all entwined together in the silent heart of the earth.

And you judges who would be just,

What judgment pronounce you upon him who though honest in the flesh yet is a thief in spirit?

What penalty lay you upon him who slays in the flesh yet is himself slain in the spirit?

And how prosecute you him who in action is a deceiver and an oppressor,

Yet who also is aggrieved and outraged?

And how shall you punish those whose remorse is already greater than their misdeeds?

Is not remorse the justice which is administered by that very law which you would fain serve?

Yet you cannot lay remorse upon the innocent nor lift it from the heart of the guilty.

Unbidden shall it call in the night, that men may wake and gaze upon themselves.

And you who would understand justice, how shall you unless you look upon all deeds in the fullness of light?

Only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man standing in twilight between the night of his pygmy-self and the day of his god-self,

And that the corner-stone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation."

I dont want to fight with you anymore. Peace.

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Cabbageheadchris


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No one here hates you, No one here judges you, mate, we are here to help. We have all gone through the shit.


Speaking for myself I DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WOULD CALL GOD. I chat to a 300yr old human skull. That is my higher power. AA is NOT a religious cult. All beliefs are accepted.


It's all up to you, take what you want, discard the rest. your choice as it always has been.


You're always welcome here. We are a very diverse group sharing many experiences both good and bad. Can you handle life on life's terms?


We are here for you McStagger.


Best wishes


Chris.


 


 



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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989"
amanda2u2


MIP Old Timer

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There are two stages of recovery,, the first is just getting sober,,  and then there is learning how to deal with life still sober. Sometimes there is a 'pink cloud' when we first get sober,, cuz our bodies are gettinghealtheir.. and then there is a crash when we are confronted now with life. Things we didn't notice when we were drunk,,  we didn't feel when we were drunk are now right there..  those feet my want to run right out of here and head for the nearest bottle,, or do some other stuff to avoid dealing with our lives...  like give someone else advise and get into their lives...    but..  if we hang in there,, and learn the Steps,,  and understand how our Higher Power does help us get through things much better than a bottle did...  day by day...  we recover. Emotions that we haven't dealt with come out.. anger, fear, can bust out all over,, and part of recovery is to learn how to cope.  It is all aabout learning coping skills. \


amanda



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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
Doll


MIP Old Timer

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No ones life should be rooted in fear. We are born for wonder, for joy, for hope, for love, to marvel at the mystery of existence, to be ravished by the beauty of the world, to seek truth and wisdom, and by our treatment of others to brighten the corner where we are.
--Life Expectancy, Dean Koontz


 


Tips, no harm done here. My intent was not to be malicious, my reaction to your post was Fear. My apologies to you.


Keep coming back, please.


Hugs,


Doll



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* We eventually realize that just as the pains of alcoholism had to come before sobriety, emotional turmoil comes before serenity. *
Sick of being sick


MIP Old Timer

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Posts: 850
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Tipsy, I can only say this: Einstien's special, top secret, theory of gravity has been hidden from all of us by the US government, because it was part of the Manhattan Project.


The secret is now out: there is no gravity, the world just sucks! 


Now that you know that I'm joking, I hope that you'll remember that any time you sit around with a group of friends, sometimes one or two of them will say, "Man, I had a sh..hole crap of a day!"  and look for a little sympathy, cause it's human nature to do that when you've had a sh..hole crap of a day!  You will also hear others in the group say, "Man, you gotta hear how great a day I had!".  Also human nature.  And if you tell your friends, or they say to you, "Man are you ever a bone head, you frikkin' dork!", whoever says it better really be doing a WHOLE lotta this!


I don't judge you, and ask only that you don't judge me.  And you can go if you choose, or you can stick around if you feel there is something more to gain.  No more kickin' sand, or one of us is going to have to go off and take the Joe Weider body building course so we can come back an "ass kickin' dude".  Never found that to be profitible to any one but the guy selling the course.  (Crap, I shoulda got hooked on steroids instead!?!)


Can't remember if I done a lot of moanin or whinin so far on this site, even when I got touched on a sore spot concerning death of a child (like my beautiful little niece) or my kind, undeserving sister-in-law, from cancer.  If I do get miserable or whiney, please remind me.


I'm still into do your own thing, peace, serenity, go your own way, go with the program if you want, don't go with it if you don't want, and leave every one else to do the same.


A saying in this program is that it's insanity to put your hand on a hot plate, yell "ouch", then put your hand back on the hot plate again. 


Kinda goofy also to go into a room full of people, listen to them babble, then say "jeez, you sure are stupid!", leave the room, turn around and walk back in, listen again, and say "jeez, you sure are stupid!" again.  Probably not going to have much impact on them, plus you are probably not making the best use of your own time.


PS. Come back anytime that you feel that what we have here is something that you can use. 


The door is always open.  You're always welcome.  Even if you can't figure out why you'd want to hang around with such a bunch of nuts. 



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TipsyMcStagger


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I just want to be healthy and sober.

I don't understand why it's so difficult...why can't I just not drink?

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Sick of being sick


MIP Old Timer

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I wish there was a simple answer to that.  I've asked my self why I can't just quit, and also why can't I just drink one or two and then stop or switch to something else.  Very honestly, I CRAVE that "buzz".  I crave it so powerfully, so strongly, that I really can't control it for very long.  Sometimes I can do the one or two and stop, but I'm really not happy when I do, cause I crave it even worse after getting the initial little tease.  Seems like a couple of drinks just ease all my tensions away, make feel so mellow and relaxed, help me have more fun at the party.  The problem is, the only way I can stop after two, is to exercise incredible, white knuckle willpower.  A guy can lift a 100 pound weight for so many times before his arms get weak.   


If my old girlfriend Ethyl Alcohol were really a person, she wouldn't be a very nice person to have as a friend.  She lures you with all the sweet memories of the first kiss. But, never can you remember all the times she has hit you over the head... not, that is, until after she has done it again for the thousandth time.


 



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Hanuman


Senior Member

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Hi-ya Tipsy...

That question ... "why can't I just not drink" is a good one.

Apparently people who are not alcoholic don't have much of a problem with not drinking. When I put down the drink I really started to realize how much booze had insinuated itself into so many of my reactions to life. It was my "ace in the hole" and if I was going to live without it (and I had to or eventually I'd end up on the street) I found I needed to find a different way of living and thinking.

By attending and participating in AA meetings, service, reading literature (I got a 2 yr subscription to the AA Grapevine pronto .. and have had one ever since) things started to change. I started working the steps as best I could figure out, got a sponsor and basically used whatever I thought would work for me. So far it has. Life still happens .. "good" and "bad" stuff. I try not to judge most of it because I know from experience now that my perspective is limited. I also try not to allow my emotions to carry much weight in my overall happiness. It seems they're ever changing and can be somewhat volitile.

In summary, AA has a lot of good advice about how I, as an alcoholic, can live happily without alcohol. As for the judgement thing you mentioned, I think we all need to remember to Live and Let Live.

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carey


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i know for me that when someone is struggeling with the disease of alcoholism and are reacting to the disease rather than taking action to keep it arrested it only reminds me of where i could be.  


sobriety is contingant on your spiritual matainance (of your choosing) and knowing that you can't successfully drink or consume anything which contains alcohol.


i know i can get so angry at my alcoholism that when others feed into it i can get angry that it is winning in their battle with it.  sometimes that anger comes out wrong and the person thinks that i am judging them...when it is in actuality just the anger towards the alcoholism not the person who is consuming the drink.


might want to think about that a little and understand we are all trying to help you see that this program works and everyone works it differently because we are all different. but the steps are a must and can't be wavered from.  when you work through them you then realise what it is for you,that you need to stay sober for you and  by then (after you worked through them) you have be more informed and be able to make better choices so you can lead your life as an individual but a part of the group. 


just do it our way for a while so you can learn to stand on your own two feet and not be that  person or what ever bothers you about yourself.....not a sheep lead by some sheppard.


good luck and keep coming back


 


 



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