I'll admit it. I get really frustrated with this one lady in my group. She received her one month chip right after I joined but then laspes because her husband is also and alcoholic. She has 4 children but refuses to believe that they are effected by their parents' drinking.
Anyway, today she said she was very stressed because she was totally broke, had no gas in her van, and had to take one of her children to a therapist about 30 miles away tomorrow. We know we're not supposed to do this, but I'm not the only person who started fishing into their wallets. Then she said she knew she could resist tonight, (the 4th), because she has no desire to drink right then, but she knew her husband was going to binge big time tonight.
I sat there for a while and tried to think of a way to put it delicately, and finally said that I sympathize for her because they have the money for her husband to drink (and they both smoke too, which is expensive as well), but not enough money to put gas in her van.
She got really defensive with reasons why she couldn't (I heard wouldn't) can't (I heard won't), etc. No one else challenged her.
Another time she talked about having to clean up after a binge party her husband had with his cronies, taking one of them home, putting her husband to bed, then getting him up for work, making sure he had his cigarettes, and took care of the kids as well with no help from her husband. That time I asked her what would happen if she didn't clean up, enable her husband. She replied she didn't want the kids to know, but this all happened at their pool and everyone knows the kids already are aware of the situation.
Anyway, I'm really new at this...am I just supposed to work my own program and not worry about others? Should we challenge one another? Personally, if I was making mistakes, it would be helpful to hear other perspectives, but maybe an AA meeting isn't the right forum?
Well... everyone could benefit from some constructive criticism or an outside perspective that "challenges" their approach but, be careful not to intervene for the wrong reasons.
we avoid retaliation or argument. we wouldn't treat sick people that way. if we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. (aa pg. 67)
never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop;simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection... if he is not interested in your solution, if he expects you to act only as his banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for his sprees, you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. this he may do after he gets hurt some more. (aa pg.95)
-- Edited by AllenIdle on Monday 4th of July 2011 08:51:18 PM
Welcome to the MIP forum! I agree that Allen has the concept regarding the situation.
I think your take on the situation was probably accurate, just dealing with untreated alcoholism and a unmanageable life. Some day you will look back and see that God put these people in your life for a reason, we see what happens when people get honest and work the steps/program and what continues to happen when they don't.
Yes we do try to help others, we try to share from the perspective of our experience and leave our opinions out, which is kind of a artform. That said, I too have probably challenged others in the past where maybe I shouldn't have.
After thinking about the situation, IMO you may be able to say something like " I have been working with my sponsor lately regarding getting honest with family relationships and setting financial priorities, I think this will be very helpful in creating a manageable life is soberiety"
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I'll admit it. I get really frustrated with this one lady in my group. She received her one month chip right after I joined but then laspes because her husband is also and alcoholic. She has 4 children but refuses to believe that they are effected by their parents' drinking.
Anyway, today she said she was very stressed because she was totally broke, had no gas in her van, and had to take one of her children to a therapist about 30 miles away tomorrow. We know we're not supposed to do this, but I'm not the only person who started fishing into their wallets. Then she said she knew she could resist tonight, (the 4th), because she has no desire to drink right then, but she knew her husband was going to binge big time tonight.
I sat there for a while and tried to think of a way to put it delicately, and finally said that I sympathize for her because they have the money for her husband to drink (and they both smoke too, which is expensive as well), but not enough money to put gas in her van.
She got really defensive with reasons why she couldn't (I heard wouldn't) can't (I heard won't), etc. No one else challenged her.
Another time she talked about having to clean up after a binge party her husband had with his cronies, taking one of them home, putting her husband to bed, then getting him up for work, making sure he had his cigarettes, and took care of the kids as well with no help from her husband. That time I asked her what would happen if she didn't clean up, enable her husband. She replied she didn't want the kids to know, but this all happened at their pool and everyone knows the kids already are aware of the situation.
Anyway, I'm really new at this...am I just supposed to work my own program and not worry about others? Should we challenge one another? Personally, if I was making mistakes, it would be helpful to hear other perspectives, but maybe an AA meeting isn't the right forum?
Just curious.
Kris
I agree... An open "AA" forum might not be the correct venue to voice your opinion. I don't advocate discussing matters of this magnitude in open forums. However, voicing your opinion in a caring yet profound manner, may spur some people into action. A voice of reason just may be the clarity she needs. So, don't neglect her wishes, become that voice of reason. A word or saying from a highly respected source does carry some clout -at least from my perspective it does. So, be the good will ambassador and make suggestions, as long as it's done in a positive yet reaffirming light.
Making suggestions though, especially in any open arena, is the best way (I feel) to respond. Giving ultimatums or negative feedback can have lasting ramifications, so I suggest you choose your words wisely before moving forward. Communication is key here, so communicate...in a respective manner of course. Al-Anon is another suggestion, so keep that in mind as you move forward. I hope your words can change a life for the better, and set this person on the path to freedom -one day at a time.
~God bless~
-- Edited by Mr_David on Tuesday 5th of July 2011 02:42:03 AM
We AA's are a controlling bunch. It's always important for me to understand my MOTIVE. If I have an expectation that I can "fix" someone... well, my expectations are a pre-meditated resentment. I personally need al-anon, because people don't act the way I want them to act... I have been affected by other people's drinking (and in some cases, their "-isms.") I have to remember to stay in powerlessness.... or I suffer, thinking I have some kind of power.
Have I personally been helped by another's "honesty" with me? yes. However, I did hold some resentment against them at first, LOL. I believe God will use our "good" and our "bad" for His purpose and I have personally benefitted from people calling me on my sh*t. I do have co-signers in my life... and I have people who will always help me stay honest.... and I know who they all are!!
Also, it is my experience that what the universe is showing me... what I see in others... is often true for me. You may like to use the experience as a mirror to check your own level of honesty regarding your recovery. Namaste, my friend.
Thanks for the replies; they were helpful. I think I will back off a little so it doesn't look like I'm bullying this woman or something, because obviously she does (or her lack of commitment to sobriety, not to mention her kids), does bug me. I'm sure my own recovery should be a priority, and I wonder if worrying about her all the time isn't a way to keep from thinking about the "problems" I'm having.
I was taught that if I was working someone else's program or taking someone else's inventory by definition I wasn't working my own "the inventory was ours not the other man's" If alcoholics changed their behavior based on other people telling them what to do there would be no AA I was taught I shouldn't "should" people nor let them "should" me, and when I am "shoulding" people I am in the problem, not the solution The acceptance speech in the back of the book is followed by him saying Shakespeare said "all the worlds a stage and all the men and women merely players" what he forgot to mention was I was the chief critic and then he goes on to describe how he could see the flaw in every person and every situation and he was glad to point it out because he wanted perfection, just as he was sure you did I learned I am not God and it behooved me to let God do His job and I should concentrate on mine, in AA we share our experience, strength and hope, not our opinion or advice, as in "I did this and it didn't work, then I tried this and it did" GladLee actually nailed it, if I am concentrating on someone else's character defects it's because I am being bothered by some of my own
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
One of the things I value about AA is that my fellows won't let me get away with justifying self-destructive behavior. They will challenge me on it. I have often expressed personal preferences about my own behavior here in this forum, and when these were contrary to good sobriety, I was told so. I value this. Of course it has to be done with the utmost decorum. I personally refrain from doing this because I don't know if I have the proper tact, but I'm glad others can do it.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Stop working 'your' program and work 'the' program.
I have found it very sad to go to meetings such as you are describing .. ppl whining and moaning about their problems .. no money, kids, job, hubby/wife, blah blah blah ... Unfortuneatelly we hear to much of the problem being discussed and not nearly enough of the solution. Which is btw ... the 12 steps of AA.
I would suggest to not attend this particular meeting for awhile. Give yourself a break from it and find a BB meeting or step/tradition meeting, even a speaker meeting might be alot healthier for you.
Do you know what? After today i've reached that conclusion too. EVERY DAY it's all about her and how her life sucks and how we should somehow keep her from drinking. I'm new and have a lot more to learn so wish we could focus on that instead of her all the time.
I understand your frustration, Kris. I think the suggestion to go to another meeting to give yourself a break from her is a good one.
No one, recovering alcoholic or not, wants to hear someone continually whine about their problems while watching that person seemingly do nothing to change their "horrible life."
No one is in charge of that woman's sobriety but herself. Until she accepts that, there isn't much you, or anyone, can do for her.
You take care of your sobriety. That's the most important thing.
You know, some people are just more needy than others. Some people just like to hear themselves talk. Some people need everything to be all about them all the time.
Kris...one day, if you stay sober, you will be able to use her as a reference point for the progress you can make in your life just by staying sober and really working the program. You will hear that same old broken record from her all the time, but it will dawn on you how different you are and how much you have grown. At that point you will just be so grateful you are not her and you wont get so angry hearing her BS.
This was my experience
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
