Not to offend or start any type of drama, if you dont wish to answer I respect that but for those that choose to share: I was wondering if your HP has a voice and if so how do you hear it? Does it come audible in your ears? Is it more of a judgemental thing like an angel on your shoulder devil on the other? Do you see visions etc? Can you distinguish the voice? For me its in my brain, I ask a question and usually get a answer right away, its very strange.. Hard to explain. I also sometimes can hear the voice of my disease, it tries to sound like my HP but I am able to tell the difference now, cunning, baffeling and powerful it is but my HP is so much stronger. My HP is God/Jesus and I can hear him in a way I cant describe, its a strong confident voice, that he knows whats better for me and if I just listen he directs my steps. He also shows me signs, usually before I pick up the first drink even though Im sad to admit I havent followed them before. One time I clearly remember about a year ago I had my first 30 days or so and I had some beers I bought and hid under my bed, well night came and I went to get them and clearly heard OUTLOUD "Dont do it" I was speechless, froze but ended up drinking them anyway. I still remember it vividly to this day. Another time not too long ago I was getting ready to go out and drink with some people and looked down at my phone to call someone and in the text I had somehow typed AA...capitalized and together.. needless to stay I still didnt listen. A very recent time I was planning to go buy some beer and at the store and was smoking a cig outside when I seen two former sponsors that came out seperately at different times unknown the other was there. I finally got it through my head and didnt drink that day. Well some may call me crazy or say there coincidences etc but I believe that was my HP talking to me again. Im just glad now that I am able to accept this and listen to him in which ever form he tries to speak to me.
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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
Thanks for sharing this Steve. In my experience, I found that if God, was not speaking then who was it? Even when I refused to listen, in my sickest moments, and deliberately sought to harm myself, God was there looking over me. My childish spirituallity demanded signs and visions, and none were given. As I grew up spiritually, I found it was the still small voice of God, that came through, as a result of working the steps of AA diligently. I found that my walk with my God required both submission and discipline. Steps 1;2 & 3 required submission and the rest of the steps required discipline. My sick mind always points to others who have not submitted. Nowadays I have to force myself into disciplining myself, to leave them alone. I found that God has to deal with us individually. It was AA's 12 steps that ultimately brought me to my Lord Jesus Christ. I would have remained bone dry for the last 22 years without Him, but I would have lost my family and kids. Today I have all of that and more because of Him.
I have, on rare occasions, thought I heard a voice or someting like a voice, although it was very difficult to tell. Mostly his voice comes in the format of sacred writings for me.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Dreams for me. I pray, I dream, I wake up feeling calm and things sort of fall into place.
It's hard to explain as they make no sense on waking but as things happen throughout the day the dreams become more and more relevent until I am left with the unshakable belief that the message is:
"Keep the faith. Everything is as it should be."
And to think I was a dyed in the wool agnostic until I found this program.
I'd love them more often but I think that I would be greedy if I asked for that. I'll be just be content that I am getting what I need and no more.
For me ,Prayer is talking with my Higher Power(all day and night),and Meditating is listening for the answer I also see what God has said by everyday miracles in my life,starting with the One who opened my eyes this morning.I hear God saying,seek my will and be all I intended you to be .When I am listening all is well,when I'm not,I begin to falter..We are of God.!!....,He who knows God hears us ,he who is not of God does not hear us, by this we know the spirit of truth and spirit of error.When I am with God I know the truth.,please keep me close.......
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
I like your post Steve, and I relate to your "coincidental" experiences.
I am so reminded of something my first sponsor would always say, "God is not a vapor." Her big thing was getting to a meeting to hear the message God had for her that day, she firmly trusted that she would hear what she needed to hear, that God uses people.
I've had that experience too. Often, I think that ANY positive message that comes into my head is the voice of my Higher power. I also feel my HP speaks to me whenever I am present enough to feel a breeze against my skin... or the sun shining on my face.... the sound of the wind blowing leaves in trees... or when I hear the sound of the waves on the beach.... or when I notice the colors in the sky..... and I dont' really have words for those messages, usually it's a delicious reminder that I am not alone... God telling me that I am loved... and all is well.
God speaks to me through animals (all living things, really.) I'll never forget the unintentional eye contact I made with a baby calf loaded onto a truck headed to the slaughter house... or the cat that supposedly hated everyone, the owner was in disbelief over her affection for me.... or the donkey that walked away from his fresh hay to comfort me... the day the big donkey pulled a tree branch down so that the little donkey could eat some leaves too... the day a beautiful butterfly landed on my hand and stayed for a loooong time... on me!! And my own dogs... they make me laugh... they comfort me... they love me unconditionally. All of this is divine communication to me.
-- Edited by gladlee on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 09:56:09 AM
This is actually a fascinating topic Steve. I do not hear a voice of my HP...but I kind of feel it steering my actions like an autopilot. It happens when I just do the right things on instinct and it requires very little thought and pondering. To me...that is when I typically am doing best at choosing to go with God's will.
I remember working step 2 with my sponsor and he had me listen to CDs of the book "Conversations with God." While it was narrated by both a man and a woman...I like to think that the way "God" spoke in that book is the way God would really speak if I could have a conversation with him/her/it. It presented God as being loving, accepting, caring for me as just 1 person in a big world struggling to just live life on life's terms... I would really recommend that book just to maybe have that experience and to broaden your spiritual journey.
Hope all is going well in your recovery! Keep stackin up those days! Keep doing the next right thing! Keep asking questions and keep searching for the answers....and also accepting the answers given. Embrace that you are becoming a better version of yourself everyday you stay sober (even on the days that don't feel so great).
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
My "higher power" or "God as I understand God" does in fact move in mysterious ways, most frequently the voice of God comes from stillness, and I "know" that I am in conscious contact, also for me, especially when I was new, God "spoke to me in meetings", I had some STRANGE things happen when I was meditating hard, I've had people no one had ever seen look right at me in meetings and yell at me to "get out of my own way", after the meeting I looked for this person and he had disappeared, everyone was asking me, "who was that guy, did you know him? why was he yelling at you?"
So for me God many times speaks through other people, maybe, for example, if I was unable to get sober and there was some guy on the internet saying over and over and over and over and over GET A SPONSOR AND WORK THE F'ING STEPS ALREADY that might be God trying to get through to me
God helps those who helps themselves:
A believer in god sat upon a rooftop during a flood and prayed to god, "God I believe in you and I am faithful, please save me!" A few moments later a boat comes by and the men aboard say "hurry we will save you!" But the man replies, "No! God will save me!" A half hour passes and again the man prays. Just then a helicopter comes by and lifegaurds call out to him "Climb onto the rope, we will save you!" To which the man replies, "No! God will save me!" Then the flood waters rise and the man is carried away and drowns. In heaven, he goes up to god and says, "Why God? Why didn't you save me?!" And god replies to the man, "Who do you think sent the boat and the helicopter?!"
People like to sit around waiting for god to answer. But we have to help god help us. Talking to friends, a counseler and a doctor. Why do you think god gives us those people?!
The thing that is most important to me however, is TO CHECK WITH OTHER PEOPLE, my God isn't "on my side" like it's a sporting event, to me God doesn't choose sports teams or countries or even people to "root for" over other people, my God is like ...how to explain, well is running the WHOLE show, not just Andrew's show, it's like I am a cog in a machine, or part of a greater whole, and the thing for me to do is figure out how to "enmesh myself" with this giant mathematical equation that is happening all around me and that is when things fall into place for me effortlessly, it's like "God's Will" is a stream happening all around me and if I learn to use it's power, it propels me downstream without any effort on my part, but if God talks to me DIRECTLY I RUN, not walk to the nearest Sane and grounded person I know and talk with them about my supposed "guidance" to get some perspective
I listen to newcomers talk about how God found them a job, got them a girlfriend or bought them a truck because they got sober and that's God "working in their life" but my God doesn't buy me shit, get me laid, or find me jobs, I am responsible for my own actions but I'm not in charge of the results of my actions, like I'm in charge of flinging shit against the wall, but I'm not in charge of adhesion
At the end of the day I have found a few rules that are germaine to this whole higher power thing no matter what one's higher power is, one "Faith without works is dead" and two when I think God is talking to me and I know God's will for me I am woefully mistaken and that it's ego, not God, I aint big enough to know God's plan, and I don't think anyone does from The Pope to the Dalai Lama, we have some basics but not specifics, and anyone who professes to know God's will is someone I am going to run as fast and as far away from as possible, as these are the people that lead others to their deaths, cause all religious wars etc ad nauseum
Your prospect may belong to a religious denomination. His religious education and training may be far superior to yours. In that case he is going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows. But he well be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked and why yours seem to work so well. He may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient. To be vital, faith must be accompanied by self sacrifice and unselfish, constructive action. Let him see that you are not there to instruct him in religion. Admit that he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it or he would not drink, Perhaps your story will help him see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well. We represent no particular faith or denomination. We are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations.
Of course, it is reasonable and understandable that the question is often asked: "Why can't we take a specific and troubling dilemma straight to God, and in prayer secure from Him sure and definite answers to our requests?"
This can be done, but it has hazards. We have seen A.A.'s ask with much earnestness and faith for God's explicit guidance on matters ranging all the way from a shattering domestic or financial crisis to correcting a minor personal fault, like tardiness. Quite often, however, the thoughts that seem to come from God are not answers at all. They prove to be well-intentioned unconscious rationalizations. The A.A., or indeed any man, who tries to run his life rigidly by this kind of prayer, by this self-serving demand of God for replies, is a particularly disconcerting individual. To any questioning or criticism of his actions he instantly proffers his reliance upon prayer for guidance in all matters great or small. He may have forgotten the possibility that his own wishful thinking and the human tendency to rationalize have distorted his so-called guidance. With the best of intentions, he tends to force his own will into all sorts of situations and problems with the comfortable assurance that he is acting under God's specific direction. Under such an illusion, he can of course create great havoc without in the least intending it.
We also fall into another similar temptation. We form ideas as to what we think God's will is for other people. We say to ourselves, "This one ought to be cured of his fatal malady," or "That one ought to be relieved of his emotional pain," and we pray for these specific things. Such prayers, of course, are fundamentally good acts, but often they are based upon a supposition that we know God's will for the person for whom we pray. This means that side by side with an earnest prayer there can be a certain amount of presumption and conceit in us. It is A.A.'s experience that particularly in these cases we ought to pray that God's will, whatever it is, be done for others as well as for ourselves.
In A.A. we have found that the actual good results of prayer are beyond question. They are matters of knowledge and experience. All those who have persisted have found strength not ordinarily their own. They have found wisdom beyond their usual capability. And they have increasingly found a peace of mind which can stand firm in the face of difficult circumstances.
We discover that we do receive guidance for our lives to just about the extent that we stop making demands upon God to give it to us on order and on our terms. Almost any experienced A.A. will tell how his affairs have taken remarkable and unexpected turns for the better as he tried to improve his conscious contact with God. He will also report that out of every season of grief or suffering, when the hand of God seemed heavy or even unjust, new lessons for living were learned, new resources of courage were uncovered, and that finally, inescapably, the conviction came that God does "move in a mysterious way His wonders to perform." In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while. What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.
-- Edited by LinBaba on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 02:49:56 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Really interesting post, I have a strong sense of my HP and I usually see signs or symbols, kind of hard to explain but most certainly not coincidental which sounds strange.
Nope, I've had so many conversations with my HP, but he don't say nothing to me. And i've listened hard.
But a few days later I get a coincidental happening..........I once heard a man say that when he stopped praying, stopped his attempts to make conscious contact with God, then the coincidences stopped.
I was on my way to follow a course of action that would in all probability caused harm and hurt to others when the CD in the car played a song about a man walking away from a woman because it was the right thing to do. Gave me pause to stop and think. I didn't walk away but changed what I was going to do. That's the coincidence and that, I believe, is my HP talking to me.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
The voice has come in non-verbal ways. Mostly I would describe connecting with a HP as a sense or feeling of things being "right".
A couple of things I've noticed:
Once last year when I was feeling troubled during one day I was in PJs, a mess, crying and sitting and begging for HELP to my HP. A few minutes later, some door-to-door religious folk rang and asked me how I felt about God in my life. This was an off mission day, like a Friday too. I sent them away, saying it wasn't a good time, in my head I was thinking I'm too busy being miserable to talk God talk with you crazy folks. Shortly after that it occured to me that perhaps HP was trying to contact me in answer to my pleas for help. After a few moments of beating myself up for refusing to listen and sending them away I thought, just say "Thank You, God." I said it out loud, and immediately I had an overwhelming sense of peace wash over me. The pity party ended there and I was able to go on calmly with my day.
I have coins show up often laying around in odd places. For awhile it was always quarters. In sobriety it's been dimes. I don't think that the coins levitate or anything, it's just that I tend to notice them exactly when I'm mulling something over, or am wondering if I'm making a right decision. They are often in places that I didn't notice them being previously. I used to consider the possibility that it was a kind of angel/spirit communication a la John Edwards. I'm not convinced on any scientific level, however, the whole AA thing has made me more openminded and willing to consider listening for a "voice".
On the coin note, I was at a meeting about six months ago. During that week I'd been wrestling with being of service to others, making effort to talk to newcomers and such. For no apparent reason, a man I'd never seen before or since came up to me after the meeting and gave me an AA medallion that depicts a historical 12 step call.
To me, when I open myself to being a vessel, I get to tap into the natural grid of "spirit waves". I know I see a certain light in people's eyes and special demeanor when they begin working the program, especially after opening to a HP.
Hearing a real voice might scare me. I felt pretty crazy in my drinking days and the talk in my head was sure nutty. I feel certain my HP knows that and communicates in ways I can handle.
angelov8 wrote:I know I see a certain light in people's eyes and special demeanor when they begin working the program Absolutely, people who have worked and who continue to work the 12 steps shine like beacons to me, I can spot them a mile away, it's a very readily apparent thing to me
great thread
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
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