Even worse today..... in tears

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

Even worse today..... in tears

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Im praying for you now.. This too shall pass.... it will work out, I know it!

gladlee · Senior Member

Your disease wants you to believe it's hopeless, joni, it is not hopeless. You are okay.

I go to al-anon because people don't act the way I want them to. It's there that I remember my powerlessness over people, places and things. I've also learned how to detach.

I had a sister who offered to "help" me after my divorce, so I moved back to my home state and moved in with her. Turned out, she had an agenda for me, big expectations... and she was slowly going insane because she couldn't control me, (she believed I had become addicted to AA meetings and hated when I went) I stayed detached, I did my thing, my sponsor reminded me that I didn't need anyone's approval or permission, I am a big girl. Well... that attitude led my sister to asking me to move out in just 4 months. I was scared sh*tless, my financial situation was not yet secure.

But I kept going to meetings and sharing. One day, someone gave me a job suggestion which was absolutely brilliant.... today I am able to live on my own and make ends meet. It's not ideal, not what I want to be doing, but it is working, just for today.

I am living in peace. Years ago, that is all I prayed for when I decided to file for divorce from my husband. I didn't pray for a specific outcome.... just peace. God has me where I need to be today.

You haven't done anything with your life that HP cannot restore. Believe this.

You will be in my prayers tonight. Stay calm. Get with God. All shall be well. (((hugs)))

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha (((((JoniJoni)))))...just sent a 3rd step prayer out to you...worth repeating.

maire rua · Senior Member

my prayers are with you.

mikef · MIP Old Timer

jONI! In prayer and support.Sometimes when we are not face to face it may hard to read into what someone writes on this board.We interpret things differently.You are loved here and I would not think anyone would be intentionally trying to cause you grief,just my stuff ,wanted to say that,,I can feel your pain.As hard as it is with people all up in our stuff its our reactions to the situations that "freak us out" I know for this addict I spent so many years reacting and not stepping back ,looking at situations and trying to get in a solution it was very difficult and at times still is..I could only suggest speaking your mind to the person "really monitoring your life now(alanon)and be honest with your feelings.Person may mean well but doesnt realize what she is doing to you..Everything else/law/job/husband,people in general,JOB, are situations where you can just digest each situation a little at a time.Its so overwhelming if we try to "fix" everything all at once.dEFINITELY 3RD/11TH STEP REFLECTION TIME(MY STUFF,THIS HELPS ME)KEEP SHARING,MOVE EACH SITAUTION TO A SOLUTION PHASE,EVEN THOUGH THE COMMITMENT SEEMS TO NOT BE WORKING,HAVE FAITH.Dont believe you have been brought this far to be dropped now.JUST DONT USE,THATS THE ILLNESS,knocking on the door,wants you back,send it back to the dark!!!Reach out to any other support people around you working an honest program and stay close to the "principles of our process"These are the times where the disease goes"man nothing aint working,your trying so hard but for what,might as well just relax and lets get twisted...DONT DO IT!!!!mORE WILL BE REVEALED...peace (CANT FIND WORK UP HERE EITHER IN nEW yORK,my daughter 22 just finishing her teaching masters and working in a nursery at $8.00 bucks an hour ,7 months pregnant...God is faithful,we just have to stay close :) :)

Toad · Senior Member

I am sorry for your pain, and confusion.
Love,
Wayne

hsoj · Veteran Member

jonijoni...I wish it were an easy fix. It is, however, just as simple as it has always been- but we in recovery know the difference between simple and easy. I would say that you have to be able to distance yourself from this sick alanon you're talking about. Other people can do horrible things for our self-esteem, and if it means some self-preservation, then I would say you have to develop some distance. Even if she is helping you in some way, I would say that whatever the help is, is not worth it, if it's leading you to feel like this.

I'm not so big on 'using' the serenity prayer, but it may help you to see what you can change, versus what you can't. I believe there's a reason for everything we go through, and we don't always get to know what the reasons for everything are.

I would bet there are other people around you (not just those in cyberspace) who would be willing to help you, to get through anything under the sun. Letting this person get under your skin like that is not worth your recovery, and certainly not worth taking your life.

Do you have a phone number of someone who you've never talked to before? Maybe use one of those, and see if telling someone else directly, someone who's completely outside of the drama between you and this sick alanon, would help.

I used to go through crap that was similar to this, and what I'd have to remind myself was that picking up a drink or a drug was not going to help it, no matter what the problem was. Some days I'd have to sit and tell myself, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS today, I'm not going to take a drink- today. One day at a time, just like always. I believe that as long as we keep that in mind, then we have at least a better chance of handling anything else. When I was first learning about how to be honest with myself, that's what I had to do, anyway. I knew that at the start of my day, I had made that promise, and if I wanted any different results other than what I had always gotten on my own, I knew I had to keep that promise. And after awhile, I knew that I was not just promising myself, but I was talking directly to my HP, too.

Bipolar disorder makes recovery issues (self-esteem issues, mainly) infinitely more complex, but we know it's not impossible. I wish it were a simple thing to just wipe those clean and make them easier, but it's not. The simplest thing, though, is just to dissect the issues and recognize them for what they are. This is life, and we have these tools to be able to deal with it.

Much love and peace of mind...

PJ Tucker · Veteran Member

I'm going through a similar thing....soon to be ex has left me high and dry and hasn't given me a dime since October; house is being foreclosed on, and divorce attorney is owed money; I feel so helpless and "one day at a time" seems to be working today as far as not drinking. I did relapse after Christmas for two days, got back to the meetings and the program. Some days I'm so sad and regretful and use the serenity prayer and pray to God, my higher power. Things do happen for a reason and I try to know there's better things down the road. My husband had me arrested for "shoving him" while we were arguing over finances, and now I have to attend Domestic Violence classes which cost money in order to get my record clean. Husband was trying to "scare me".

Try for the "one day at a time" and yes, lose that alanon "friend"; you don't need people around who upset you. Do you have a sponsor? hmm

TwelveSteps · Senior Member

Something someone said at my meeting last night, which I'm still thinking about:

Life doesn't happen TO us, life happens FOR us.

More will be revealed about how this difficult time will turn out to be an opportunity for growth. My thoughts are with you.

GG

zzworldontheweb · Senior Member

Yes, prayers on the way. Do NOT listen to your disease. That is the thing talking to you, and it is lying by telling you things are hopeless. You are very smart and capable and it's just a matter of time before things fall into place.

You might try disconnecting your phone or getting caller ID or something. Do not let these people victimize you, just don't speak to them....

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Are you ok JoniJoni?

turninggrey · MIP Old Timer

Hey Joni,
Prayers on top of prayers. Hey, time will work this out. It would all be worse drunk! You, like I, can not stay away from trouble when drunk. When you drink, its right back to your old ways. The longer you stay sober, the more this will resolve itself. Your ex is an ass? Pray for him. Got a codependent? Pray for wisdom to work it out. Praying is doing something. Please check back in and give us the update!
Tom

SteveP · MIP Old Timer

Hey Joni, hadn't been by for a bit, very sorry to hear. Thoughts and prayers with you right now.

Steve

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Joni...You might not believe it, but this too shall pass. Maybe you are done with Akron? Perhaps move closer to dad in Florida? I have no idea if that is a good idea, but it's just an idea. I am sure you will be okay wherever you are, it's just going ot take time. Your life is not a total mess. The economy sucks and jobs are slow to hire...it's not a reflection of you.

Mark

PhilipD · Veteran Member

Keep your chin up Kiddo!!
Theres always a light at the end of the tunnel..
even tho we can't see it at the time :)

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

Days are getting better.... I actually had a decent interview today, we'll see what happens. I am still trying to set boundaires every single day with my very sick CODA/Alanon aunt. Even if I say something like, "I don't know if you realize it, but you have repeated that same thing (pressure for certain type of job, pressure to renew my certifications when I have no intention to work in the medical field right now.. and can renew them any time I choose) to me several times already this week, and many more times in the past months."

Every time I even say something in kindness which is trying to set a boundary, her disease pushes back against being "ousted" from my hula-hoop, and she says things ike, "Well, you don't have to get hyper/upset/rude/loud (take your pick folks, they are all b.s.).... I'm allowed to voice my opinion!"... and then she reminds me and gives me instructions and tells me what avenues SHE would like me to pursue, the very next fricking day.... sigh. Grrrrr

One thing is for certain, the horrific week last week is gone, and although I still struggle with some things, it is getting a wee bit better.

I had a fantastic Valentine's Day, the best I have had EVER. And my date and I both won money at the local arcade! (Me $60, him $200!!)... and just about the time I needed money desparately to fill my tank. Then another friend asked me to do a painting for his new house. He gave me some of the money up front, which was a very nice gesture. The painting is coming along well, and will be done by the end of the week. (In time to fill that tank up again, eh?)

wink

Thank you guys for letting me share. I will keep you posted on how things go with the job. Sorry for being so "selfish" right now in my posting, but dammit, I am in a rough spot and it is crucial for me to be able to dump and work through stuff.... and then give it away...

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

jonijoni1 wrote:

Days are getting better.... I actually had a decent interview today, we'll see what happens. I am still trying to set boundaires every single day with my very sick CODA/Alanon aunt. Even if I say something like, "I don't know if you realize it, but you have repeated that same thing (pressure for certain type of job, pressure to renew my certifications when I have no intention to work in the medical field right now.. and can renew them any time I choose) to me several times already this week, and many more times in the past months."

Boundaries confused me for a long time, because they seemed to work with some people but not others, finally I had a light bulb moment

Boundaries are to protect me from other peoples behavior not get me to change them

example: Person A hurts my feelings so I state "That hurts my feelings when you say that"

That person stops because they listen

Person B hurts my feelings so I state "That hurts my feelings when you say that" and the next day they do the same thing

This is where boundaries comes in, stating my "needs" or wants or whatevers IS NOT A BOUNDARY IT"S STATING A PREFERENCE

SO, with person B when they do it again I say "That hurts my feelings when you do that, so if you do it again I will walk away/hang up the phone

When you ______

I will ________

and then ENFORCE it no matter what!!!!! or all you are teaching them is how to treat you, as in poorly, you are teaching them you HAVE NO BOUNDARIES

Then when "they" say blah blah you state "I have warned you, I am hanging up now" and unless they stop

HANG UP THE PHONE

their explanation is meaningless and irelevent, as is their feelings if you asked them to stop

when you talk to them again, don't apologize, don't bring it up, if they start crossing your boundaries, state again, clearly, I have asked you not to do this if you continue I will walk away/hang up

but but but -click-

trying to explain irrational or hurtful behavior to someone who is irrational and hurtful is a gesture in futility that leads US to go completely insane

I spent YEARS trying to get through to my mother

first I was rational
then I raised my voice
Then I got nasty and hurtful

Now we don't speak to each other any more, her codependent alcoholic issues aside, that is ON ME because if I had known how to set boundaries with her and not allowed her to draw me into her world, we'd still be talking today, she is the sick one, and pretty soon I was the sick one right along with her

Boundaries are internal and something we set ourselves to protect us from other people, NOT behavior modification

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

Setting Boundaries

The purpose of setting boundaries is to take care of our self. Being forced to learn how to set boundaries is a vital part of learning to own our self, of learning to respect ourselves, of learning to love ourselves. If we never have to set a boundary, then we will never get in touch with who we really are - will never escape the enmeshment of codependence and learn to define ourselves as separate in a healthy way.

When I first encountered the concept of boundaries, I thought of them as lines that I would draw in the sand - and if you stepped across them I would shoot you (figuratively speaking.) (I had this image of some place like the Alamo - from a movie I guess - where a sword was used to draw a line in the sand, and then those that were going to stay and fight to the death stepped across it.) I thought that boundaries had to be rigid and final and somehow kind of fatal.

Some boundaries are rigid - and need to be. Boundaries such as: "It is not OK to hit me, ever." "It is not acceptable to call me certain names." "It is not acceptable to cheat on me."

No one deserves to be treated abusively. No one deserves to be lied to and betrayed.

We all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If we do not respect ourselves, if we do not start awakening to our right to be treated with respect and dignity (and our responsibility in creating that in our lives) - then we will be more comfortable being involved with people who abuse us then with people who treat us in loving ways. Often if we do not respect ourselves, we will end up exhibiting abusive behavior towards people who do not abuse us. On some level in our codependence, we are more comfortable with being abused (because it is what we have always known) than being treated in a loving way.

Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love our self, and to communicating to other's that we have worth.

There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what we will do to defend that boundary.

If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)

I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.

If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.

One very drastic example (in the case of someone who is just learning about boundaries and has been physically abused in the past) would be:

If you ever hit me, I will call the police and press charges - and I will leave this relationship. If you continue to threaten me, I will get a restraining order and prepare to defend myself in whatever manner is necessary.

It is not always necessary or appropriate to share the third part of this formula with the other person when setting a boundary - the first two steps are the actual setting of the boundary. The third part is something we need to know for ourselves, so that we know what action we can take if the other person violates the boundary. If we set a boundary and expect the other person to abide by it automatically - then we are setting ourselves up to be a victim of our expectation.

It is not enough to set boundaries - it is necessary to be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce them. We need to be willing to go to any length, do whatever it takes to protect ourselves. This is something that really upset me when I first started learning how to set boundaries. It took great courage for me to build myself up to a point where I was willing to set a boundary. I thought that the huge thing I had done to set a boundary should be enough. Then to see that some people just ignored the boundaries I had set, seemed terribly unfair to me.

Here's a less dramatic boundary, if it helps to have a manageable-sized example:

We have an agreement in my house: We often do things in the kitchen together, but sometimes one of us takes the initiative and makes dinner. The rule says this: If I cook us a meal, you get to clean up afterwards. If YOU cook us a meal, I get to clean up.

This keeps someone from having to spend two hours in the kitchen while the other puts his/her feet up.

Sometimes, my darling SO would not hold up his end of the bargain. Things would sit there, plates would congeal, pans crust over. I'd say something, and it would get fixed, but the next time it would happen again.

I finally made a boundary: 1) If you don't do your share, I'm not going to sigh and b***h and do it myself. It's all going to sit there until the place starts to smell. I don't care; I have a respirator. 2) If we have an incident like this again, I'm not cooking for us for a month. We can fend for ourselves for dinner, or I'll eat on my way home from work at my favorite cafe, and you're on your own.

There's no anger in me as I state that to him. I shrug, explain how I feel, and say what I'm going to do or not do. He's free to do as he likes, but there will be repercussions he might not enjoy.

We've only had to go through that once (testing me, no doubt)

(This page includes quotes from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls and quotes from other articles, columns, or web pages (indented) written by Robert Burney as well as exceprts from soberrecovery)

-- Edited by LinBaba on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 07:12:25 PM

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

LinBaba, thanks a lot. I know that consistency is the key when training a dog, and training humans too.

If people EXPECT that I will dismiss controlling behavior and hang up, then perhaps they will figure out that it doesn't work and try something else.

Everyone's thougths and encouragement here are appreciated right now. I mean that.