Its been a while... I was doing great,I got back with an old Punk Rock Band of mine and recorded an album and started playing out again...However,This disease has kicked my ass yet again.I know that I cant do this on my own... I'm helpless and do not have the will power to fight this addiction by my self...Im still learning what it takes to stay sober. Sorry for going AWOL for the last year....... So I'm starting over from day one again....
-- Edited by LastOneLeft on Saturday 15th of January 2011 11:29:14 PM
Did you work the steps fearlesslessly and thoroughly?
What are you going to do differently this time?
I suggest looking at your answer to the first question before you answer the second question
it says "rarely have we seen a person fail that has thoroughly followed our path"
Personally I have never seen anyone "fail" that thoroughly follows our path, meetings, service, sponsor, steps, commitments, sponsees
LastOneLeft wrote:
Im in the same boat. Im just now starting to deal with all the damage Ive caused.Ive destroyed everything too.My first week was really hard,I didnt realize how hooked I was.I believe getting sober was a matter of life and death for me,Now I just have to "Stay Sober" One day at a time.The Most Important thing for me now is to stay sober and repair the relationships I care to salvage.Screw everything else.I've been praying the Serenity Prayer over and over for a month now, Probably at least 100 times a day.I believe its helped alot.Keeps me grounded. you can do this....
LastOneLeft wrote:
Things get easier and better sith time, at least they have with me.I've got a little over 3 weeks now and things are deeffinatley better than they were a month ago.I hit a meeting everyday.I also Pray ALOT, Im not even sure who Im praying to but it seems to work so I keep it up. Good Luck!
We know that simple meeting attendance and prayer didn't keep you sober, but they gave you a month or so get started in doing the actual work of getting and staying sober, that's a good start, so "you are one more No closer to a yes" in search of your answer for your drinking, the evidence is stated clearly in your own words, what you did before didn't work in the long run, but it gave you some time, that will be a good start, 30 days sober is plenty of time to get a sponsor and start working the steps, which is how much you got last time before you disappeared
Welcome back, I always enjoyed your posts, This is AGO by the way
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 16th of January 2011 12:16:08 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
He probably stopped going to meetings. I agree Lin that you do need to do stepwork from the start, but I don't see a reason to move beyond step 3 for the first year. Do steps 1 through 3 so well because those are the foundation and they have to last a lifetime.
I still say that if you go to a meeting every day and call your sponsor every day for a year...You will get that year of sobriety. NOW, I also think you will then need to do the rest of the steps to fix all the damaged thinking and such that had you acting so self-destructive in the first place. In most cases, I think working steps 1 through 3 very very thoroughly for a whole year is okay and that you be going to meetings at least 6 a week the whole first year.
Don't move through the steps too fast while your brain is still reeling from the damage done. I know people in the early days did all 12 in like a day, but I don't believe that is best. I can only say what worked for me and I didn't do steps 4 through 12 until my 2nd year sober when I got some perspective on life and was able to do a searching inventory without beating myself up and when I couldn't do 8 and 9 until was also able to really see who I needed to make ammends to because there were still yucky feelings about those relationships even after a year of me being sober.
First things first, Lastoneleft. Get a home group and a sponsor. Please come back here and post when you have done that. Get straight up in the middle of the AA fellowship and treat it like it's the most important thing in your life....because it is. Everyone here wants you to succeed and stay sober this time.
One last suggestion: I know you have musical talent and all and you would like to play music in places where you might get gigs (right?), but it would be far far safer for you to stay away from clubs and bars for a good long while. It will be worth it in the end.
Glad you made it back,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
The program is full of musicians. It's really a hazardous occupation, mainly because of substance abuse. what I've found is that alcoholic/addicts are also codependent in that they tend to go along with the crowd, and have a hard time saying no. This is also human nature, to duplicate the behavior of those around them. It's a survival instinct to be socially excepted. In primitive cultures, outcasts can not thrive. Even in our society, you must conform - work, pay your bills, possess the ability to form and maintain functional relationships. Most of your homeless people have lost these skills. What I'm trying to say is that if you want to get/stay sober, you must surround yourself with people that are doing those things. If you want the opposite, hang out with those folks. Most of the successfully sober musicians that I now, took a year or so off from their occupation to get sober and form a good sober network/program. Then they were able to re enter their occupation, with the ability to set boundaries for themselves and others, while maintaining their sobriety, which of course, has to be their primary purpose. Get busy with it, before you get sucked back in.
Hey Mark, not doing your 4th and 5th steps in the first year can lead to a couple of things. One, relapse, and two, people that never do them and rely on just meetings to stay "sober". I know several people that have more than 10 years that never did their 4th/5th steps (and beyond). It's obvious, to me, that they are still suffering from emotional immaturity, letting self will run riot, dishonesty... There's no reason that a person can't do a more than adequate job, on the first three steps, in their first six months or less.
Hi bill recovered alcoholic, this is my experience not opinion.I read the book and with my sponsor I got thru the steps after nine months of not drinking , going to meetings and praying.absolutely dieing inside. One night after leaving my home group more mad then before I knew I was in trouble. I went to. Another meeting and ran into a guy . He seen that I was hurting .asked me what step I was on . And share his experience .walk me thru the first 3 steps . We said the prayer and I went home and wrote out my 4 th step and went to sleep made an appointment and dumped it .went home after that for an hour and said another prayer . And made a list and srated making amends . So god did for me in around 8 days , been on 10 11 and 12 since .the feeling of wanting to die gone wanting to drink or the thought of picking it up gone .until suck an understanding is reached little or nothing could be done .my experience is that god gave me enough advanced grace to put a man armed with the facts of himself.and it took a few hours of his time .this works .period . I lost my choice,? The question I have is have you lost your choice?
He probably stopped going to meetings. I agree Lin that you do need to do stepwork from the start, but I don't see a reason to move beyond step 3 for the first year.
SoberSteve could probably give us some pretty good reasons why to work the steps in our first year, and Joni, and Dob, and tipsy mcstagger and Phil and Aquaman and all of the chronic relapsers we have had over the years, and all of the thousands of people that were unable to get or stay sober here over the years, the thing every single one of them had in common is they didn't work past step 3, every. single. one. of them weren't "fearless and thorough" from the very start, which is a direct reference to doing a searching and fearless moral inventory.
That 19 out of 20 that supposedly "fail" here at AA, what every single one of those 19 have in common is they didn't work past step 3, what 99 out of a 100 of those that succeed in AA have in common is they -did- work steps 4-9
Sure when you ask newcomers why they relapsed, some say "I stopped going to meetings" but what every single one of them will say is "I never got past step 3"
Every. single. one.
With all respect, not working past step 3 the first year is Pink's Program, and while it has worked for you, it's a direct contradiction to the instructions laid out in -The- Program of Alcoholics Anonymous laid out in both The Big Book and The 12 and 12
If I were to state the most prevalent reason I have seen for relapse among newcomers far and away the answer is not they didn't attend enough meetings, but they didn't work steps 4-12, to where it is a cliche, The AA Waltz, which is 1-2-3 slip, 1-2-3 slip
Every single person with long term sobriety on this forum has made it to step 12, every single relapser on this board has not done steps 4-12 fearlessly and thoroughly
StPeteDean wrote:
Hey Mark, not doing your 4th and 5th steps in the first year can lead to a couple of things. One, relapse, and two, people that never do them and rely on just meetings to stay "sober". I know several people that have more than 10 years that never did their 4th/5th steps (and beyond). It's obvious, to me, that they are still suffering from emotional immaturity, letting self will run riot, dishonesty... There's no reason that a person can't do a more than adequate job, on the first three steps, in their first six months or less.
I too have seen this so many times it has become a truism, like driving down the freeway with no hands on the steering wheel and you will probably crash, don't work the steps -fast-, from the very start, and people invariably drink, and if they don't they evolve into about the emotional development of maybe a 3 year old, temper tantrums, controlling, manipulative, their behavior gets worse, not better
Mark, as your friend, I beg of you, I implore of you, I beseech you, please please please say "this is my experience", and then give your experience, because it is, we can all say "this is what my experience is" but when it comes down to actually working -The Program-, we stick to what -The Program- actually says, in short showing others precisely how -we- have recovered, the we being millions strong now, I agree it is important to make the program our own, but what keeps me sober might get you drunk, and the Program of AA is not Group Therapy based with steps thrown in as work we do for extra credit, it's steps based with meetings as a very very important ingredient to support our stepwork
Please, with all of the earnestness at my command, I beg you to consider that telling newcomers not to work the steps for the first year might be a death sentence for the "Real Alcoholic" as described in The Big Book, it is incredibly dangerous and irresponsible to do so, and it is exactly opposite of what The Big Book and 12 and 12 says, for the confused newcomers that come here the results of even just one person saying "don't work your steps for the first year" over and over the results could be catastrophic to all those unable to stay sober on meeting attendance alone who come here for help
Please, as your friend and as someone who has come to like you and respect you, I beg of you to reconsider the "giving of advice" about working the steps when it is in direct contradiction of the explicit instructions laid out in the book and is in direct contradiction of millions of people in AA, please feel free to say "This is my experience" about waiting to work those steps, just reconsider the part where you advise others to follow -your- Program as opposed to -The- Program
Daily meeting attendance does work for -some- people but not all , however working the steps works for everyone I have ever met
Every. single. One
Chapter 5 - How It Works
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now.If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power that One is God. May you find Him now! (not our sponsor or our group)
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. we asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 16th of January 2011 10:29:26 AM
__________________
it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Thanks for the responses. I had a little over 6 months sober, about 2 months ago I started sneaking a drink here and there which led me to a few knock down drunks. Its hard when your surrounded by it. I deffinatley returned to playing out with a band way to soon. I still attend meetings but was lying to myself and sponser the last few months.Mostly I just feel like an AssHole for hiding it for a while. I was able to stop myself before I went way off the tracks this time.Its an uphill battle for me to sya the least. -So today I'll Quit the band yet again,Hit a regular meeting of mine this afternoon and come clean with them ,and call my sponser later.I'll Up my meetings to everyday for a while and start all over.
-- Edited by LastOneLeft on Sunday 16th of January 2011 10:21:23 AM
LastOneLeft wrote:-So today I'll Quit the band yet again,Hit a regular meeting of mine this afternoon and come clean with them ,and call my sponser later.I'll Up my meetings to everyday for a while and start all over. It was explained to me that when I took the same actions over and over I got exactly the same results, and that "Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes"
So I ask the questions again:
Did you work the steps fearlesslessly and thoroughly?
What are you going to do differently this time?
Just wondering, since what you did last time didn't work, the daily meetings for awhile and calling your sponsor (who's only job is to take you through the steps by the way)
It's funny, I watch newcomers and sometimes it's like watching the Jeopardy sketches on Saturday Night Live sometimes..
"I'll take bludgeoned into submission repeatedly by doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results for 500 Alex"
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 16th of January 2011 10:50:28 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
LinBaba, I just read these posts about the importance of working the steps and not waiting. I wanted to thank you for your diligence in stressing the importance of "The Program". I came to believe, early in rehab, that I needed a great and meaningful life change in order for me to remain sober. So working the steps for me was never an issue, it was "how soon can I get started". And I must say the result of working the steps through weekly Big Book readings with my sponsor, and my willingness to listen, be teachable, has changed my life.
I don't understand the thought process that waiting is okay. The sponsor of a guy I was in rehab with told him not to go past step 3 until after a year in the program. If I waited a year, I never would have made it this far.
My sponsor in the beginning asked if I was willing to go to any length, if not don't waste his time. I didn't know it at the time but he was referring to step work. I was two months out of rehab when we started and we went through a chapter every week, some in two and he gave me two weeks to do step 4. That's when my life changed.
It surprises me that there are so many here and in the rooms I go to that stress meetings above the steps. I'm beginning to really dislike the "meeting makers make it" phrase I hear frequently in the rooms. To me, meetings are an opportunity to extend a hand to newcomers, and talk to them about how to work the program the right way, and to do service in any way I can, like offering rides to those without a license, etc. (I don't feel I should sponsor anyone until I have at least 2 years). But that's step 12, isn't it?
Good points. I just know what I did and it worked for me...thus far....Knock on wood. I would still say most newcomers are too nutty to do a good 4th step until at least 6 months but I've been wrong before...
I hated myself too much to do a good job until having been sober and in the fellowship a while. Shrug.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I think it took a while longer for me cuz of some confounding mental health issues, an evil breakup and also that this was my first time ever in AA...By the time some people have a year sober, they have been in AA for several years.
Anyhow, about lastoneleft. I have written the same thing on a couple of threads. When you are really really truly done, you will kind of know it (although you will still be scared of relapsing and that will motivate you for a while)...but you will be doing all it takes.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I thought I was desperate when i went to my first meeting, but I white knuckeld it for 3 months before getting desperate enough to get a big book and find a sponsor.
The steps took me maybe 6 months from there. My sponsees have taken it at their own pace. it's only fear that holds you back.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
So good to see you back, remember when you packed up your family, I kept waiting to hear about the adventure in that trip.....well never happened and I always just wondered.
Past is gone, it does not matter, the ONLY thing that matters is you are home again, with you MIP family.
I have been sort of chuckling (sorry my dear brothers) on how they are dictating how you should do the Steps. the when, and how long.......stumped me....you are a Veteran here......your call.
So good to see you back, remember when you packed up your family, I kept waiting to hear about the adventure in that trip.....well never happened and I always just wondered.
Past is gone, it does not matter, the ONLY thing that matters is you are home again, with you MIP family.
I have been sort of chuckling (sorry my dear brothers) on how they are dictating how you should do the Steps. the when, and how long.......stumped me....you are a Veteran here......your call.
Hugs and Love to you and Welcome home!!!!!!!!
Tonicakes
Toni's absolutely right, you should only do the steps if YOU want to
stay sober
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I wwas referring to the WHEN, not the option of not doing them, I noticed we all had different times and what worked for us. I was such a low bottom drunk, I did not do a rigously gut wrenching 4 th Step til my second year, my head was such a whirlwind of you name it, and when I could think real clearly, and had a Sponsor the was a real AA Nazi, then I did what ever she told me, and the timing was right on for me. For me it is my far the most important, and of course Step 5, to be clear headed enough to do 6 thru 8, 9 takes time, and then relax with the 11th, I think my favorite, and of course the 12th, we really have to give it away to keep it.
Just wanted to clarify. Funny, I knew if you read what I wrote, that you would respond, tehe.
