Does anyone know a good CODA forum similar to this? John can We have a Codependents Anonymous board on this site?

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Does anyone know a good CODA forum similar to this? John can We have a Codependents Anonymous board on this site?

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

RE: Does anyone know a good CODA forum similar to this?Cc

Mike B. · MIP Old Timer

I to would be very interested in a CODA forum. I found one on Daily Strength.com but have had mixed results with the content.

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Thanks, it would be great to get one started here..

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

would the two of your message John and ask if we can add a board here for Codependents Annonymous?

Anyone else who would be in favor of that please comment in this thread. thanks,

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 11:38:31 AM

jj · MIP Old Timer

hi all, i am interested. after reading Steve's request, i looked around and found some interesting stuff, but no CODA online support group. but i will continue to look. i have ordered the book "the language of letting go" ....have heard it is excellent!!
hugs fron sheila

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Quetzal used to post from the language of letting go. It was awesome

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

RE: Does anyone know a good CODA forum similar to this? John can We have a Codependents Anonymous board on this site?

happycamper · MIP Old Timer

Im for Coda ...

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Can we add it John? Pretty please?

leeu · MIP Old Timer

There is one on In The Rooms http://www.intherooms.com/fellowships/coda but if LinBaba has an "in" with Mr. Bradshaw that would be awesome! Timmons Cermack is another good reading resource. I too would love to see one here on MIP.

barisax · Senior Member

I'm not much of a follower... watched a bunch of Bradshaw videos back in 1993 with my soon-to-be ex. I just can't get into the whole follow-the-guru thing.

Barisax

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

barisax wrote:

I'm not much of a follower... watched a bunch of Bradshaw videos back in 1993 with my soon-to-be ex. I just can't get into the whole follow-the-guru thing.

Barisax

Nor I, I am however an avid devourer of books and I always "do the reading" and I try to remain teachable

Bradshaw offers up some great insight, as do Pia Mellody, Melody Beatty and many other authors, I find "take what you like and leave the rest" is a great principle when reading books of this type, but I also find that going to the professionals that have the answers to the questions I am asking is never a bad idea, any more then them coming to me to ask about things I am professionally competent about is a bad idea

Even by listening to each other do we gain wisdom, for example your response to John yesterday was a beautiful one and full of wisdom that I personally got a lot out of

Wisdom is found in many places, the truth is I have missed a lot of it over the years by disregarding the messenger, thus disregarding the message

-- Edited by LinBaba on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 11:39:23 AM

barisax · Senior Member

I found Bradshaw's diagostics to be spot on, but I saw little recovery. The groups I was with all cried and shared and nodded in agreement to the videos. The following week, they did the same thing. The week after that, they did it again. When I brought up the idea of recovery - hey, are any of you getting any better, I was just about run out of the room. Granted, it was a church group meeting weekly to watch Bradshaw videos and then talk about them - not a live paid-for seminar... but I didn't see the recovery in the videos either. Maybe you needed to buy part 2 to get there.

I never had any trouble connecting with my inner child. It's the inner adult I've been in search of all these years. I certainly know many, many people - most of them NOT alcoholics - who have lost touch with the child. I never did. My most miserable moments came when I gritted my teeth and forced myself to be "mature" - which is defined as behaving as others expected me to. A vast part of my post-sobriety recovery has been simply to stop doing that, and to let go of other peoples' opinions of me.

Barisax

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

barisax wrote:

I found Bradshaw's diagostics to be spot on, but I saw little recovery. The groups I was with all cried and shared and nodded in agreement to the videos. The following week, they did the same thing. The week after that, they did it again. When I brought up the idea of recovery - hey, are any of you getting any better, I was just about run out of the room. Granted, it was a church group meeting weekly to watch Bradshaw videos and then talk about them - not a live paid-for seminar... but I didn't see the recovery in the videos either. Maybe you needed to buy part 2 to get there.

I never had any trouble connecting with my inner child. It's the inner adult I've been in search of all these years. I certainly know many, many people - most of them NOT alcoholics - who have lost touch with the child. I never did. My most miserable moments came when I gritted my teeth and forced myself to be "mature" - which is defined as behaving as others expected me to. A vast part of my post-sobriety recovery has been simply to stop doing that, and to let go of other peoples' opinions of me.

Barisax

Yeah I understand that, I always liked Siddartha's approach when he met the living embodiment of The Buddha

He told him he was obviously evolved, his entire being glowed with enlightenment, his teachings were simple yet profound, he was obviously a living Buddha

"Yet" Siddartha continued, "I couldn't help noticing that none of your followers have evolved, I think I will continue to seek my own path, as you sought yours"

I don't "suscribe" to any "guru's" but I do pick their brains on the way by

barisax · Senior Member

LinBaba wrote:

"Yet" Siddartha continued, "I couldn't help noticing that none of your followers have evolved, I think I will continue to seek my own path, as you sought yours"

I don't "suscribe" to any "guru's" but I do pick their brains on the way by

I remember back in grade school, learning the difference between "fact" and "opinion". We even had a test, with various statements and we had to label them as "F" or "O". I aced the test. I got it. But it wasn't until some time in sobriety that I understood there is a third type of statement: Experience. I suppose one could argue that someone telling their experience is a form of fact OR opinion, but it's some of both, and it contains the person's own perception of what happened, which is unique to that individual even if it is chock full of facts that can be proven and opinions that can be disputed.

While I value all three, when I'm seeking to learn things sometimes it's the E statements I seek most. They reveal more about the person talking than F or O statements, and as they reveal, I can relate - or not. I can make a pretty good determination to the question, "Does this person think like me?" If the answer is a pretty strong yes, then I will give that person's experience (and opinion) more weight than someone I cannot relate to at all.

Simple, silly example: I hate mayonnaise. I won't eat it or anything that contains it even in minute quantities, or anything that imitates it (Miracle Whip, etc). It tastes to me like it shouldn't be food - my palate rejects it. If I'm considering whether or not to order a sandwich from someplace where I can't be there to see it made, I will probably ask, can I get it without slime? If a person who is just fine with mayonnaise and thinks its silly for me to not like it says "Oh sure, I'm sure you can get it without", I'm less likely to believe them than somebody who I know to be a fellow mayo-avoider says "Don't worry, it's all on the side - all made to order". Went through this at work a couple weeks ago... we had a lunch tray of premade sandwiches, and I'm looking at them, not wanting to touch. Asked if they had mayo and she says "no". Using a utensil, I lifted up a corner of the bread... yep. She says "Well it's just a little". I guess that last statement could be considered an "opinion"... LOL. My experience prevented me from taking something I wasn't going to eat. Sometimes people even laugh at your experience... but I find it serves me well.

I've found a lot of good stuff from various "gurus" like Bradshaw, Redfield, of course Bill W. and Dr. Bob. But those who insist on following the guru to the letter are doomed to never evolve, because they always will be followers. That may be fine for many people, but I've discovered I can't exist that way. It's not my desire to be a guru on my own either. I'm not a follower nor a leader. I believe it's possible to exist that way, in fact I think it's the most interesting existence you can have.

Barisax

LinBaba · MIP Old Timer

agreed

One thing I do though however is initially I "copy the masters" to get what they got

When studying art, I painted and drew copies of all my favorite artists, and copied sculptures I liked, after I was proficient, I developed my own style

When learning to cook I followed recipes out of "Joy of cooking" and after I got proficient I started changing recipes based on my experience to suit my palate

When studying music even, learning every single studio album ever made follows in the footsteps of "Sergeant Pepper", the first studio album ever made, or studying literature, almost every novel penned for the last, what 150 years is basically based on "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoevsky, everything that follows is built on these basics, which at the time transcended their respective fields in so large a manner as to be completely new and different

I believe to attain mastery of anything I copy those that have gone before me, I need to get what they got before I just go off and make it my own, or I never learned what they learned

I did/do the same thing with Sobriety and Recovery, I am a fundamentalist when it comes to taking newcomers through the steps, I follow the recipe to get what they got, after the steps drop from my head to my heart, I make it my own, for example my Higher power is a much more science/Physics/Buddhist/Taoist based critter, with my other friends who have also been around for a few decades we have discussions that would absolutely be considered blasphemy by fundamentalists, but we all have a good grounding in the steps and have integrated them into our lives

Without a good education in colors, or shape, or form, or perspective, or horizon or art history, simply put I am a hack that is re-inventing the wheel

One needs to learn the rules before one throws them away to become a master at anything, so in that light, I don't care if my art teacher is an idiot, if he can teach me about the masters, if he can teach me structure, discipline, and the basics I have something to learn from him even if he is personally an awful artist, at some point the experience becomes my own, and my style becomes my own

I personally believe one needs to go through the stages, to spend the time sweeping in front of the guru's house, to spend the time studying, to spend the time chopping wood and carrying water, to spending time learning discipline, to spend the time learning the basics, to learn to crawl before learning to walk, to walk before we run, to run before we fly, Now I know that these are unfashionable ideas in this day and age of instant gratification I want it and I want it now, but they are old tried and true basics, there are some ideas out there that have been around long before I came along and I learned they don't make an exception for me

Even Bill took a liitle of this and a little of that to build his program, step 1 dr silkworth, step 2 carl jung, the following steps the oxford group who in turn all took their ideas from someone before them

When teaching an art student I don't teach them my art, I teach them the masters, when taking someone through the steps I don't teach them "Andrew's Program" I teach them "The Program" and give my thoughts as we go through it, as my daddy told me oh so many years ago when we were studying the Tao Te Ching together, "Son, you aint the wise man, and chances are you never will be"

That's just me though, but if I want to bake a cake I follow the recipe to the letter before I start changing it around, that style of teaching and learning has been around for thousands and thousands of years for a good reason, I have all too often paid the price for taking shortcuts

-- Edited by LinBaba on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 01:35:45 PM

barisax · Senior Member

I was never that methodical about learning. I don't know if it's a learning disability or not, or what it would be called today. It has been with me all my life. There is only so much fundamental study I can take before I must go off on my own, even if I come right back to the fundamentals. I can't start to absorb what is on page 2 until I've gone out and tried page 1 for myself. Or maybe I'll start with page 157. Another thing I have to accept about myself. I just don't do things "the right way".

A big part of it is because in my experience, people give lip service to rules and procedures but rarely follow them. I can commit myself to following to the letter until I bang into someone who isn't, which usually takes about five minutes. We're *always* on our own, no matter what doctrine or rule book we're following, or whatever the discipline - whether it's the AA Big Book, learning music, art, computer programming, engineering, mathematics... we all learn in our own unique way.

In my profession when I was starting out in school, I devoured one source after another, kind of swinging from tree to tree grabbing a little bit here, a little bit there. I evolved my own discipline, and later on I found my discipline could easily be adapted to follow procedures in place where I was working... unfortunately, you guessed it - the people there didn't follow their own procedures. And for the most part, they didn't want to hear about it - they just want it done and done now, and didn't care what protocols I followed.

I've done well professionally, but primarily by avoiding working side by side on team projects with others of my ilk. I had some success as a team player, but I found myself taking on more and more of the work load, more and more responsibility. If something was 10% mine and 90% someone else's, I couldn't stand for my 10% to look bad on account of the other 90, so I took it over. Primarily though, I was self employed and did my own thing.

My therapist long ago assured me I don't have ADD. But sometimes it seems like it. I can't force myself to pay attention to something I'm not interested in, even if I know it's important. My mind wanders onto other things. I stopped fighting it long ago.

Interesting that you mention music. I'm envious of those who can create music spontaneously. Ironically I grew up in a serious musical family, and I did receive some formal training at a young age. I am technically proficient in some areas, but nearly incapable of doing anything truly creative. I'm bound by intellect, very little artistry shows up unless my left brain is too tired to think anymore. I do enjoy playing music, but I will always be a follower there - a copycat.

I do get weary of the business world. The company I work for seems to pay so much attention to what the competition is doing that we never take any initiative to create something new. Plenty of ideas kicked around, but the resources get spent playing me-too. I had to let go of the idea that I was going to be some famous person in my profession someday, and decided it was for making a living and having a good time in the process. More that came about from sobriety. My boss can't believe I go home every night and rarely think of work, if at all. The gift of letting go of my ego.

Barisax

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

A CODA forum would be so ideal for great conversations like this..

barisax · Senior Member

How is CODA different from Alanon? I've had some exposure to 12-step programs other than Alanon and AA, but not CODA specifically.

Barisax

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

I think alanon is for people with spouse/family/relationships that deal with alcoholics where coda just deals with being co-dependant with others with or without substance abuse?

jj · MIP Old Timer

i think you are right Steve. Alanon has to do with spouses of alcoholics or families with alcoholism and touches on co-dependencies. Coda is all about recovering from codependence and codependent relationships.

jj · MIP Old Timer

I found this on codependents.org..great list to look at if you are questioning yourself.

Patterns and Characteristics of Codependence

These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation. They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.

Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.

Low Self EsteemPatterns:
I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.

Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.
I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.

Patterns and Characteristics of Codependance is reprinted from the website www.CoDA.org with permission of Co-Dependents Anonymous, Inc. (CoDA, Inc). Permission to reprint this material does not mean that CoDA, Inc. has reviewed or approved the contents of this publication, or that CoDA, Inc. agrees with the views expressed herein. Co-Dependents Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women whose common purpose is to develop healthy relationships.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

barisax wrote:

How is CODA different from Alanon? I've had some exposure to 12-step programs other than Alanon and AA, but not CODA specifically.

Barisax

Barisax, Alanon is about how to live with your alcoholic, Coda is about how end dysfunctional relationships and learn how to have healthier ones.

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

Any word on a forum here Dean?

SoberSteve · MIP Old Timer

The Twelve Promises of Co-Dependents Anonymous

I can expect a miraculous change in my life by working the program of Co-Dependents Anonymous. As I make an honest effort to work the Twelve Steps and follow the Twelve Traditions...

1. I know a new sense of belonging. The feeling of emptiness and loneliness will disappear.
2. I am no longer controlled by my fears. I overcome my fears and act with courage, integrity and dignity.
3. I know a new freedom.
4. I release myself from worry, guilt, and regret about my past and present. I am aware enough not to repeat it.
5. I know a new love and acceptance of myself and others. I feel genuinely lovable, loving and loved.
6. I learn to see myself as equal to others. My new and renewed relationships are all with equal partners.
7. I am capable of developing and maintaining healthy and loving relationships. The need to control and manipulate others will disappear as I learn to trust those who are trustworthy.
8. I learn that it is possible to mend - to become more loving, intimate and supportive. I have the choice of communicating with my family in a way which is safe for me and respectful of them.
9. I acknowledge that I am a unique and precious creation.
10. I no longer need to rely solely on others to provide my sense of worth.
11. I trust the guidance I receive from my higher power and come to believe in my own capabilities.
12. I gradually experience serenity, strength, and spiritual growth in my daily life.

The Twelve Promises may not be reprinted or republished without the express written consent of Co-Dependents Anonymous, Inc. This document may be reprinted from the website www.coda.org (CoDA) for use by members of the CoDA Fellowship.

Copyright © 2010 Co-Dependents Anonymous, Inc. and its licensors -All Rights Reserved.