OK so I've heard here by many a sober alcoholic that to be successful and achieving and maintaining sobriety with this program it requires constant vigilance (AGREED), 90 IN 90, and a few other important details which I am working on. We true alcoholics cannot do it alone. I get that; I believe that; and I am working so hard to use prayer and my higher power to help me make good choices... I have the books, do the readings, pray to God and have the desire to stop. I have worked through step 3.
But the fact of the matter is I have a very busy life outside of AA too. How do I put my kids and family second when they're not done needing my help on a daily basis? One might ask how I did that when I got my alcohol and drank it too? My only reply to that is that I did it in their presence -mostly after they were sleepnig - so even though I was not 'there' so to speak, I was physically there and justified it. Find me an AA meeting at midnight that's close to home and I guess I can make that time... but the reality is that at 7:00 at night, I'm at a kid's activity... and during the day I'm at work. The days I am not working, I make sure I get to a meeting, my therapists once a week, and I try to do yoga or the gym (something I haven't fit in in 2 weeks and that is showing in my depression taking hold of me). I WANT to do it all but I also need that 'quiet' time... It is feeling next to impossible to do what I need to do to get an stay sober and be a 'balanced', 'centered' person.
So I can legit. get to 3 meetings a week with my life as it is now. Is that enough?
My sponsor isn't working out... haven'theard from her despite calls. Will see her at my Thurs. eve. meeting (maybe).
My temp. male sponsor/AA friend seems upset with me for not going to last night's meeting during a blizzard... in order to do so, I'd have had to leave my daughter home alone and hope we didn't lose power or else she'd be terrified. Plus I had a hell of a night yesterday as I documented somewhere on these boards. I just wasn't going. Period.
"Bob" (the friend) sounded furious at me this morning when I called to check in (even though I did let him know before the mtg that I wouldn't be there). I can't tell if he's mad because he feels I'm not taking my recovery seriously or if by some 'off' chance it is more of a personal thing, which I doubt but am beginning to wonder. He checks in with me daily, which I liked because I have such a hard time using the phone... Been getting to know him, learning about his past and his tiny family, and him mine. But maybe Lin was right --- maybe the fact that he is 74 and I am 43 is not a barrior to something more than a drunk helping a drunk in HIS eyes. It certainly is not something I even would entertain. I'm not looking for anything at AA except sincerity and help and that is what I believe I found in Bob, but today's weird attitude has me confused. The fact is that this gentleman (who has 45 years of sobriety and the proof of it), lives alone, has one grown child and no job and makes 2 mtgs a day is awesome and he has probably helped more people than I can count... but I feel like a failure *again*: He can't expect ME to make 2 meetings a day with my lifestyle but when I can't make a meeting a day I feel he's disappointed. I've noticed lately that for a guy who sits up front and attends many many meetings and has been in the program forever, he has few male friends in the meetings and does tend to befriend women of all ages more. Things are not adding up right now. Yet I want to believe in him because I do feel he knows a lot and has helped me at times.
More important and to the point: The truth is I am struggling - and the demons most certainly ARE getting closer and closer, telling me the lies that I know are just that: lies. I know that I CAN'T drink, BUT I only have so much time in a day to do what I need to do to be sober. It is frustrating. 'Keep it simple' they say. It is anything but simple for me. All I can do is keep it in the day, and today I did not drink.
Thoughts? I truly do not believe I am just making excuses that will allow me to justify a drink. I still do NOT want ot drink and I'm still willing to work at it, but I'm just saying... it is hard to do when there are so many other demands for your time. I'm willing to go to any lengths to get sober EXCEPT to put it over doing what I need to do for my family. I need to be at my kid's games sometimes and not solely at AA meetings when those games are going on. I have the MOM thing ingrained into who I am and it is a sacrifice that I can't make. Does this mean I'm not ready? I haven't sunk low enough?
ugh... I'm ready... I guess I'm trying to do this on MY terms... but my terms are practical and real...
Frustrating.
Go ahead... someone tell it like it is... I know I won't like it, but tell me. I haven't been to a meeting in days, haven't been to the gym... or my shrink... my perspective is probably way whacked out...
My first sponsor was a little flaky too. He seemed to get irritated when I called him so eventually I just stopped. I think we have to remember sponsors aren't trained counselors, they're just alcoholics like us who've (supposedly) been around the block more.
My opinion only, but if you're getting even slightly creepy vibes from the guy, I wonder if you may want to find somebody closer to your demographic. People can get emotional and loose their objectivity even if they don't have any specific "plans". Maybe don't try to hard to pick somebody too fast.
It seems like I remember you saying your husband is not totally on board with you needing to stop. That's tough. You mention working and doing the kid's stuff too. That's also tough. I never really thought the nuclear family is optimized by both parents working but that's the modern way I suppose.
You asked "How do I put my kids and family second when they're not done needing my help on a daily basis?".
To be blunt, maybe they need to stop needing whatever the heck they get from mom for a while (beyond the basics) so you can get better. Not sure what kind of activities they're in now, but I don't see ballet / soccer / scouts taking precedence in the short term. Can your husband pick up some of this slack? Do you have any vacation time coming up from work where you could do some more intensive outpatient work to get you on a good start?
Hope you feel better sister.
-- Edited by zzworldontheweb on Tuesday 28th of December 2010 11:20:37 PM
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
I was told the key and crucial number was don't let 72 hours go by without a meeting
There ARE meetings with childcare
I understand having to balance YOUR life with SOBER life but consider without Sobriety there is a good chance you will lose that life anyway
My personal motto is "Do what it takes to get it done no matter what"
and "There is no try, there is only do" which my Father pounded into me far before Yoda ever made an appearance
There are noon meetings, 6PM meetings, 8PM meetings, there ARE Midnight meetings on weekends frequently
Do what it takes to get it done no matter what, that's all you can do, but we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start, I doubt very much there are softball and volleyball games in the dead of Winter, after a 90 in 90 (or the closest you can get to that) 3 times a week is pretty normal
The question any sponsor worth their salt will ask FIRST, BEFORE taking you on as a sponsee is "Are you willing to go to any lengths?"
No good sponsor is an old testament God and will require you to throw your children under a bus or feed them to a lion, but a good sponsor is going to push harder then you like, to make you do things you don't want to do and you don't understand
In order to save your life
If you had cancer how much time could you make for Chemo?
Well you have a chronic, Progressive, fatal disease, think about how much effort you are willing to put into arresting it, with the knowledge that after 90 days throttling back to 3 days a week is normal
Your 74 year old sounds a bit -dodgy-, Sober longer then God yet still goes to 2 meetings a day and hits on female newcomers, I'd ask some of the other women and men about him, he may just be lonely, he may actually be helpful, and he may be in the right of it getting upset about you not making a meeting you said you be at, get used to disappointing your sponsor and getting a buttchew especially when they percieve you to break your word, integrity is pretty important in Sobriety
Anyhow, the big question is, how often would you be able to make chemo treatments for 90 days and follow a few suggestions from your doctor if your life depended on it?
Because make no mistake, this is no less important and even more serious from your parenting point of view, if you went down behind cancer everyone would feel sorry for you but you'd go down alone, you go down with alcoholism and you take your children with you, "The Warped Lives of Blameless Children" is no joke
It's up to you, but 3 will get you a maybe, 5 will give you fighting chance, like Dean says, 19 out of 20 people that walk through that door aren't going to make it, what are YOU going to do differently from them to stay sober? Keep in mind that many of these fools deep down don't want to get sober or are court ordered or haven't hit their bottom yet or their wives sent them and many of them also don't follow suggestions, but like we say "Rarely have we seen a person fail that has THOROUGHLY followed our path, there are those that cannot or will not give themselves to this simple program"
Choice is yours, and I don't personally think there are any "wrong" choices, I do however think there some choices that are going to be considerably more painful then others. I mean do you like living in your head and suffering constantly? That's what life is like without hitting meetings and working the steps in sobriety
I mean it sucks right?
the easier softer way is to follow suggestions, takes many of us a long time to learn that
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
ZZ... you do have a good memory. Re: My husband being not totally on board. I should say that he's very much on board when it comes to the fact that he knows that I cannot be drinking at home just 'because'... but he has commented that now that I have it 'under control' (i.e., I drank a little on vacation without any apparent ill effects, except for the fact that I've had a hard time since then). So yes, we alcoholics know that I can APPEAR to be in control for a few days, sure... but of course once we let that thought into our sick minds... all hell will break loose eventually, and usually sooner rather than later.
Yes, my husband actually mentioned to me tonight that he thought it would be a great idea to have a few friends over for New Year's Eve. Yep... that's great... if they all want to be SOBER with me! Because I know for sure that I will not be shaking up martini's in my usual fashion for my friends and not having any! So let's just take that thought off the table, shall we???? lol.
Really??? Did he just really suggest that? Love my man - our 16th anniversary actually IS this NY Eve... he's good to me and he puts up with my crap (lol)... but hosting a NY Eve party this year???? um... NO?????
I'm thinking a movie in with the family and a board game. Yeah, ho hum... but fun and sober.
As always Lin, you have such a thought provoking, no nonsense reply that I need (as did ZZ). I hear what you're saying and when I'm not so tired, I will re read it tomorrow and really digest it. I need to.
Sorry sweetie, but I think you're fooling yourself.
If they truely can't do without you for an hour and a half a day plus, oh some time to call a sponsor, work the steps and pray...
Let's call it 3 hours a day.
If you are just too darned busy and important and needed to get sober then that, I'm afraid, is a problem that will soon take care of itself.
This is a disease that gets worse, never better.
We watch as all our boundries get moved and still we violate them again and again.
Worried about game attendance? No problem. Drive drunk with the kids in the car a few times and someone will see to it that you aren't allowed to drive them at all.
Yoga time a priority? No worries, show up drunk and embarass yourself and the instructor; you won't be asked to sign up for the next round of lessons.
Husband can't live without you? 9 out of 10 women stay with a practicing alcoholic. 9 out of 10 men LEAVE.
None of these things have happened.
Yet.
But this disease progresses. It progresses actively when we drink, and it progresses quietly while we are sober. Whether we drink or not, it is progressing like a cancer and picking up a drink doesn't put you back where you were; it puts you were you would be if you never quit. Already your disease has progressed and you've sunk down just a little more. You can check that out or you can work the program. Your call.
So if you're an alcoholic, there is going to be a day when you have all the time in the world to work a program.
I was fortunate enough to be living alone when I started to get sober. I had no wife or kids to worry about. No-one 'needed' me to run around after them. My job was hanging by a slim thread and I stretched that, I ddn't do gym anymore, I didn't practice guitar anymore, I didn't do anything.
keep making excuses and soon all your time management problems will vanish, just like mine did.
The old man will kick your arse out, your kids will dump you, the gym will lose it's allure, the job will go.
Take a shortcut, put sobriety first and stop making excuses.
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Well said Rainspa. Well said. I hear you loud and clear.
Yes, the issue is the rides to and from activities and the guilt trip I put on myself despite the fact that any other time of the day, the kids couldn't care less where I am or what I'm doing (they're teenagers after all...). Yes, there are ways around the ride situation.
Reality check.
Feeling sorry for myself - feeling 'tired' of the required constant vigilance yesterday and the days before that. Just want to 'quit' alcoholism and fighting it. I guess this is part of the path I'm on and I'm going to trust in all of you and what I know deep in my heart - that this will get easier and better. I've already prayed.
I will find a way to a meeting today. It is very obvious that I need one. Lin was right... I think that 72 hour rule is a good one... Last meeting for me was Sunday morning and my attitude has taken a shift.
Funny thing about my higher power... I was determined to drink last night... went to the ATM machine for $$$. My debit card is missing... frantically looking through my wallet for it (I'm sure it's just home because I emptied my wallet for vaca). But every other card I have was there except that one. Came home frazzled. Did not drink. Thank you god.
Hmmm.. Good for you for not drinking sis. I don't know that I'd expect God to continue showing up at the times that are most convenient for us first. He tends to do things in his own time. You know this of course.
Your kids are all teenagers? Didn't know that. Guilt schmilt, they call them "young adults" for a reason. They can walk or take the bus. If you feed them, clothe them, enforce a reasonable curfew, and make sure they go to school, you're fulfilling 90% of your parental responsibilities at that point. IMHO.
Let them start acting like adults and take enough time to get yourself some help.
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Good for you Jeane, I'm glad you heard what Rainspa said, we call that the "2 x 4" between the eyes, and that was a good one, this thread is a good example of how alcoholism works
In 72 hours this conversation and how you feel, all your plans, your new resolutions will be a thing of the past, you will be unable to bring it into your thoughts with sufficient force to not take a drink, THAT is the mental obsession part of alcoholism
What is it Mad Eye Moody says?
CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!! (5 bonus points for knowing who Mad Eye is)
Anyway, our self will becomes a liability, because it doesn't work, and our thinking becomes downright dangerous, our alcoholism will literally create a situation where we HAVE to drink, one way is "poor me, poor me, pour me another drink", it will make our suffering so acute, put us in so much pain that doctors will prescribe Opiates or a return to drinking to keep us from self harm or from going insane without treating it
Did you read 12steps thread about her realization that all her "reasons" were just BS, that is HUGE!!!!
Your mind, your thinking is trying to kill you, it will literally create a reality where you HAVE to drink, your children will become monsters, your husband a villain, the old guy a lecher, every aspect of your life will become so painful that you HAVE to drunk and in your mind you will be alone and friendless (your thinking already having pushed you into isolation) by you telling yourself you are too busy for meetings because your children need you
This is Insanity, this is the insanity we speak of in the second step, your thinking, the voice in your head is trying to kill you, and it will look like your friend, but you have Grima Wormtongue living in your head (10 points if you know who Grima is, ask your son), THAT is why BillyJack's signature reads "the moment how I feel becomes more important then what I do I am screwed"
Now the way we combat is is by tapping into an unsuspected inner resource we access by working the steps, many of our more religious members call it "God Consciousness", without accessing this higher power, or unsuspected inner resource your chances are less then average (1 in 20)
Last night you were literally insane, -a danger to yourself and others- and doing the same thing and expecting a different result (expecting to get relief from drinking) and unless you take certain steps, that insanity WILL get the upper hand again, you can't -think- yourself sober because it's your thinking that is the liability
It's said in AA anything we put in front of our sobriety will be the first thing we lose, example being driving your kids, being the martyr and missing your meetings in order to shuttle their selfish little butts around causing you resentment, you take that resentment out on them, return to drinking and they are sitting in the back of the minivan looking at mom gnashing her teeth saying to themselves "Dude you need a meeting" whispering "mom's a wack dooood"
At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old threadbare idea that this time we shall handle ourselves like other people. There is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.
The alcoholic may say to himself in the most casual way, "It won't burn me this time, so here's how!" Or perhaps he doesn't think at all. How often have some of us begun to drink in this nonchalant way, and after the third or fourth, pounded on the bar and said to ourselves, "For God's sake, how did I ever get started again?" Only to have that thought supplanted by "Well, I'll stop with the sixth drink." Or "What's the use anyhow?"
When this sort of thinking is fully established in an individual with alcoholic tendencies, he has probably placed himself beyond human aid, and unless locked up, may die or to permanently insane. These stark and ugly facts have been confirmed by legions of alcohoholics throughout history. But for the grace of God, there would have been thousands more convincing demonstrations. So many want to stop but cannot.
There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self- searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at out feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.
The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences* which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.
If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort.
-- Edited by LinBaba on Wednesday 29th of December 2010 10:31:56 AM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
