As we alcoholics are selfish by nature, it is but right and proper that we should be more severe in our judgments of ourselves than of others. As we are own own best friend or our worst enemy, depending upon our treatment of ourselves, and as we are the one person in the world from whom we cannot escape, it is therefore essential that we do not allow ourselves to get away with anything in our treatment of ourselves. When we forgive ourselves, we are rationalizing. But to forgive others is divine.
forgiving myself as I understood myself was part of the foundation of my recovery, to say self forgiveness is always rationalizing is delusional at best, self mortification at worst, as I heard fifth steps I learned to forgive and love others, as I forgave and loved them, I forgave and loved myself
Self delusion has two directions, one is being too easy on myself, letting myself "off the hook" and the other is taking too much on myself, wallowing in a morass of boggy guilt like a messy pleasure, when a puppy poops on the carpet we don't beat it, we pick it up and show it where to poop, the same is true of us and our character defects, we don't "not forgive ourselves" we forgive ourselves and learn to do better
the 4th step "rule" is we must be hard on ourselves and disregard the other person entirely, but the entire purpose of the steps is to teach us how to live in our own skins comfortably, that includes self forgiveness There are three characteristics (there are many more, but we'll use three) that are common to us all: perfectionism, the interior awareness that life should be a good thing, and highly sensitive.Perfectionism is a beautiful characteristic when we learn how to live it, but until we do it'll kill us. Forever disappointed in ourselves and everything around us. Never in our lives, long before we had a drink, were we able to settle for status quo. If it wasn't better than normal, we didn't like it. The only roadblock between me and you and me and my God is the human ego. The best definition of the human ego = "The feeling of conscious separation from". Conscious separation from God, from each other, and eventually from ourselves. Life, Good, God to me are synonymous words. Here I am against the whole world. Why am I not drunk tonght? Because I have the thing I was looking for in the bottle. The king size hurt is gone. Sobriety is four-fold: physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. Physical sobriety comes from not drinking.
We don't drink today and, after awhile, we are free from the physical affects of alcohol. But until we become emotionally stable and mentally stable and spiritually somewhat stable, we're not sober. Sobriety is the ability to live comfortably, peacefully and joyously with oneself. Things short of it are partial sobriety.How am I going to stay sober? I'm going to perform so that I'm comfortable, right here inside me
The AA program is a program of Uncovering, Discovering and Discarding. Steps 1-9 are the uncovering steps, clearing away the wreckage of the past, squeezing us out of ourselves, ego-wise; to get rid of the human ego temporarily. Now it's a moral inventory, so we don't have to write every time we turned left when we should have turned right. It means to write down enough that we can see the motivation for what we have done up until now. The motivating force in our lives. Every one of them will boil down to trying to satisfy the human ego, which cannot be done. But if I have to spread this dirty linen out before another humjan being, if I've got any ego left after that, I haven't done it! The main thing is that we become willing to give them away, and we give them away
To Forgive means to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment:
Forgive
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.
If I didn't have the ability to forgive myself, to stop harboring resentment against myself, I would kill myself
-- Edited by LinBaba on Sunday 26th of December 2010 01:49:36 PM
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
One reason I am harder on myself than others is because unlike the others, I know what I was thinking. If I'm honest with myself, I know what my motivation was and even if what I did was minor on the surface, if my motives were selfish or dishonest, it's going to eat at me.
Hmmm... To me, "forgive" merely means "to forgo revenge against". It doesn't mean "to treat as if nothing ever happened" or "to grow fond of".
If a guy steals my wallet, I forgive him by abstaining from filing a police report. I don't have to seek the guy out and give him a hug. Whether that's the best thing for him or for society is debateable, but theoretically, it's the best thing for me.
Not to get to sectarian on anybody, but the big-big book has a little passage that says (approximately), "do not think too highly of yourself, but consider yourself with sober judgment".
We can hold grudges against ourselves for things that are past and that we can't do anything about. There's no point in that and it's not healthy.
But I do think it's healthy to be strict on myself about my own behavior and thoughts.
-- Edited by zzworldontheweb on Sunday 26th of December 2010 03:13:02 PM
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Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
As we alcoholics are selfish by nature, it is but right and proper that we should be more severe in our judgments of ourselves than of others. When we forgive ourselves, we are rationalizing.
Hmm. Not the way I learned Steps #5 & #9. When I forgive myself (or am confident that my HP has forgiven me) I am arresting guilt before it can grow into a resentment against my self.
Please tell me more about "The Eye Opener Daily Reading" and the material it comes from.
Chuck C is my hero. One of the most miss quoted things in AA I think is from chuck. people like to say " its none of my business what you think of me " some say it with contempt, justifying their selfs in there judgments to be smuggly superior on a bad spiritual hair day. they didnt hear the part when chuck said " but what I think of you Is my business "
I have never been able to forgive my self, not really. I would say it " I forgive me " but secretly it wasnt happining. for me I found that as I took the steps and GOD did what He does inside me, my perception of my reality changed. In 4&5 I found that you and I are the same, and If I stood in your shoes, with your experiences,and the things you have going on at the moment, I could do the same exact thing you do. WE are the same. Like Chuck said we are all GODS kids, and He loves us all the same, so we all have the same things inside us. The big Gift in 4 & 5 for me was I found forgiveness for everyone I resented . The real forgiveness, like God gives. Not like I used to do before the steps. I would sit on my throne of judgement and grant you forgivness, and god help you if you ever do that again. Thank GOD that GOD is not like that. SO, when I learned to take you off the hook GOD took me off the hook and I feel good about me. Its a spiritual cause and effect. The formula is in the lords prayer. " forgive us as we foregive " I heard it like this.... everytime I releace the dogs of judgement to rip you open< they ALLWAYS return and rip me open. Real forgiveness comes when I can surrender My judgements to GOD. When I forgive you, Im forgiven.
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Since it cost a lot to win, and even more to loose, you and me gotta spend some time just wondering what to choose.
I hear in meetings "you must learn to love yourself before you can love others" and that was not my experience
In the 12 by 12 it says in the 5th step until we talk of ourselves with complete candor and hear someone else do the same we still don't belong, I heard Joe and Charlie translate that as until we do a 5th step and hear someone else do the same, we still don't belong, that was my experience
What I mean by that was when I did my first 5th step, not only did my sponsor listen without judgment he told me stories from his own life that made my jaw drop open, when that 5th step was done, and I had done 6-9 I felt clean inside, the walls seperating me from you were gone, my sense of isolation was removed, but when I heard my first fifth step from a sponsee, and I saw that child of God sitting there crying and wanting to die because of the shame he was carrying, I could see that it was only important because it was his, the stuff he was unburdening wasn't really that bad, it was all normal, but because it was all held inside and he was keeping it a secret and it was "his story" it was killing him
In the moment I forgave him I recieved forgiveness myself, I forgave myself, I realized right then and there the "stories" I had been telling myself and had held inside were just as delusional as his, that if he was God's child then so was I, that if he deserved forgiveness then so did I, this all happened naturally without an interior dialogue
Good on ya for spotting Chuck, I love him as well, he really nails the message
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
But until we become emotionally stable and mentally stable and spiritually somewhat stable, we're not sober. Sobriety is the ability to live comfortably, peacefully and joyously with oneself. Things short of it are partial sobriety
I accept that.
So when we desire to be sober, we 'know' we can't drink... and yet life happens... and we are emotionally and mentally unstable... and spiritually 'somewhat' stable, how to we get to the other side of it all when that is where we are stuck?
But until we become emotionally stable and mentally stable and spiritually somewhat stable, we're not sober. Sobriety is the ability to live comfortably, peacefully and joyously with oneself. Things short of it are partial sobriety
I accept that.
So when we desire to be sober, we 'know' we can't drink... and yet life happens... and we are emotionally and mentally unstable... and spiritually 'somewhat' stable, how to we get to the other side of it all when that is where we are stuck?
We work the steps
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
