Well, in the very short course of 3 days the guy I sponsor left his wife and kids, moved in with a crazy girl in the program, and got drunk. As hard as I try, I can't seem to stay detached from the guys I've sponsored. I hate it, it hurts, and I just want to go and give him a good shot in the pills and tell him to get his head out of his ass. All I can do is carry the message, give to him what was freely given to me, and let go. I don't take it personally, and I know I can't want it for him. My sponsor and I just got back from 12 stepping him, so we'll see if he shows up at a meeting tomorrow. He claims the girl is still sober, but she sure didn't act like it tonight. All this took the place of taking my kids out to see some of the awesome Christmas light shows around here. I did what I thought was right, but the kids don't understand. Tonight I'm a father torn...
Brian
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Nothing ever truly dies. The universe wastes nothing. Everything is simply, transformed. :confuse:
Of course it hurts when we see those we care about "go out" but it's important to remember why we are there
for our own recovery, passing this thing on is how we get to learn it, and how we get to keep it, I realize that actually and literally "working with others" has gone out of style, especially, God forbid, if they drank (I actually hear that shite in meetings, people who won't work with "wet" alcoholics because it will threaten their own program... while they are busy regaling us with self centered, self serving BS about what they got because they are sober or the problems they are having....Jesus wept)
So you are doing the deal, and you aint God, and you don't know where this man's bottom is, hell for all you know this is the vehicle for both of them to get sober and live happy, joyous and free lives
We just. don't. know.
Do the next right thing and then let go, and spend some quality time with your own wife and kids, and feel the miracle that your life has become
In our 12th step it says
Outline the program of action, explaining how you made a self-appraisal, how you straightened out your past and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to him. It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your recovery.Actually, he may be helping you more than you are helping him. Make it plain he is under no obligation to you, that you hope only that he will try to help other alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties. Suggest how important it is that he place the welfare of other people ahead of his own. Make it clear that he is not under pressure, that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to. You should not be offended if he wants to call it off, for he has helped you more than you have helped him. If your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding, you have perhaps made a friend. Maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism. This is all to the good. The more hopeless he feels, the better. he will be more likely to follow your suggestions.
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
Hi bill recovered alcoholic. I am powerless peroid I live in the cleveland area .there are a bunch of new guys that I have an opportunity to work with. Most like myself are batting practice for the real desperate one. I understand that it hurts when they go back .it hurts when they kill themself,go to prison , but my experience is this .if growing spiritually was comfortable was easy every one would be doing it. My sponsor reminds me what else am I doing for God. The book tells me that nothing else will ensure my soberiety then working with another drunk. It works when all else fails. Google this literature titled. If God spoke to AA he might of saidmy sponsor turned me on to that after he got me thru the speps . I use that as my standing orders from God. My children did not have the power to keep me sober.why would I put them in front of my own soberiety ? I know. what works
Our disease is a cunning, powerful and baffling one. A compulsion of the mind and an allergy of the body. Many go back out; many go back out and die one way or the other; many stick and stay and work it until they also start doing a daily 12th step. There are no guarantee in AA not for the newbie, oldie, sponsor...nobody gets a guarantee. I hang with relapsers to learn about the "yet" I haven't got hooked with ...yet. I listen, learn and that helps me stay away from the walls and holes they fall into...I am grateful for them.
When a sponsee goes back out he commences to work "his" program again and he usually has more time working that one. It doesn't hurt me or fill me with awe and confusion or ask myself what did I do wrong? I've never had a sponsee who returned to drinking or using say that he did it because of me. They tell me the truth about how they did it and I say thank you for the lesson. I have had two higher powers... God is with me now and the other one I haven't met with for over 30 years. Sends me thoughts at times but that's it.
Turn your sponsee over to God as you understand God. Listen to a tape or two of Father Martin. I believe that he had one on switching addictions...trading the bottle for the meeting...the family gets to feel even worse when that one happens. The drunk is not drinking and still not home. I'm not the only recovering alcoholic in town and lots of us take shifts (metaphorically).
One of my own sponsees has recently relapsed and will come to meetings under the influence including mini dramas. Our district is sooo very short on pity and while no one is going to keep him away from the crowd in recovery; the crowd of recovery isn't going to play with his chances either. I've watched him demonstrate that it is hell trying to drink with program in you. Nothing like a sponsor with the truth to ruin a bad drunk even worse. God likes it this way.
Sorry to hear that Brian but you can only help someone that wants help. I am only 6 days sober but you should spend sometime with your wife and kids and try not to let it bother you too much. You did your part now its up to him to do his part.
I used to get discouraged too, but now I like to see them struggle, it's called "hitting bottom". Getting sober is a blessing and only some of us "get it". So I take the shot of gratitude, give thanks, and go back to having a life. Personally, I wouldn't interrupt a family outing. I'd tell them to go to a meeting and call me tomorrow. If they have "the desire" they'll make it happen. I can't want it more than they do. I had a couple people take me to meetings when I was 15 year old and 17. It didn't take. Later, when I took myself to meetings, starting at age 27, it still took me two more years to get it. I really don't think that my early sponsors had a chance of success until I had drank my last drink, suffered the consequences and surrendered. Don't get me wrong, I respect what everyone does in their 12th step calls, it just never worked for me on either end. I remember well the attitude of the sponsor I had, after I decided to work for my sobriety. He honestly did not have an emotional investment on whether I made it or not. He had about 10 other men that he was sponsoring and made me realized that his time was valuable. I owe him for giving me the "sink or swim" attitude, last thing that I needed was another enabler.
I used to get discouraged too, but now I like to see them struggle, it's called "hitting bottom". Getting sober is a blessing and only some of us "get it". So I take the shot of gratitude, give thanks, and go back to having a life. Personally, I wouldn't interrupt a family outing. I'd tell them to go to a meeting and call me tomorrow. If they have "the desire" they'll make it happen. I can't want it more than they do. I had a couple people take me to meetings when I was 15 year old and 17. It didn't take. Later, when I took myself to meetings, starting at age 27, it still took me two more years to get it. I really don't think that my early sponsors had a chance of success until I had drank my last drink, suffered the consequences and surrendered. Don't get me wrong, I respect what everyone does in their 12th step calls, it just never worked for me on either end. I remember well the attitude of the sponsor I had, after I decided to work for my sobriety. He honestly did not have an emotional investment on whether I made it or not. He had about 10 other men that he was sponsoring and made me realized that his time was valuable. I owe him for giving me the "sink or swim" attitude, last thing that I needed was another enabler.
I also didn't get sober until "I was done"
However 6 years before I was "12 stepped" for the first time, and it rattled around my brain, that man effectively planted a seed that ruined my drinking, it just took 6 years for that seed to bear fruit
We never know what actions we take will end up being helpful, in my experience it's usually the stuff I DIDN"T think would be helpful
Once I was approached (when I was still drinking) by a guy who said "let's go party" and I told him I wasn't going to drink with him any more, he was too much trouble, too much of a loose cannon
I ran into him YEARS later and he had about 10 years of sobriety, he told me his drinking career ended that day although he didn't get sober for another 1.5 years, I was the lowest of his low companions, he viewed me with derision and disdain and when I wouldn't drink with him any more he felt as if the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang
Another was my "prize Sponsee" I sponsored him from The Big Book, and used everything I had learned from my Grandsponsor who got sober in WWII, The Joe and Charlie Big Book Study, this man worshipped me, he really really looked up to me
and then he saw me drunk...heard me try to tell him how great my life was....and that is when his "Program" was taken to the next level, when he saw this thing could take anyone out...He has helped thousands of people since, he speaks in front of thousands of people, he's incredibly active, and while I admit to pride in seeing him on stage and hearing my words come out of his mouth, I never forget it wasn't my "wisdom" that helped him, it was my "failure" that ultimately made this program drop from his head to his heart
Last was my sister, I had put her in so many rehabs and detoxes, rescued her so many times, let her stay at my house time after time to detox until one day she came to my house asking for money... I told her I couldn't see her any more, that I couldn't watch her killing herself, that I knew she was going to die but I didn't want to be close to her when that happened, that I had suffered enough for 20 years watching her go down the tubes and trying to help her and watching her kill herself, while I was talking she was sitting on a stairwell and I put my hand out and I said "But if you decide to actually get sober, nothing will stop me from coming for you, if you take one step towards me I and The Program of AA will take 2 steps towards you, wherever you are I will come find you, but until then I have to consider you as dead" We were both crying, it was one of the hardest moments of my life as I turned and walked away, thinking I would never see my sister again
A few years later I got a call from a woman who's sister's cousin or something just got out of jail, my sister was in jail detoxing (kicking heroin) and crying and screaming out for me, and asking anyone who was leaving if they would track me down and get a message to me, "tell him I'm ready, tell him he told me 'if I call him he would come"
I went straight to the jail and they brought me sister into the visiting room, once a spectacularly beautiful athlete, she looked like she could be in any zombie movie without make up, she had sores I could see her skull and cheekbones through, but her eyes...
it was my sister, she was there, I hadn't seen those eyes since we were children
She said all she could think about as she lay there in jail was just my hand, filling her vision, and my voice saying "If You Call Me, I will Come"
We got her into a rehab, then Marin Services for Women long term inpatient program
We had our ups and down over the next few years, and she ended up getting pregnant after maybe 2? years in sobriety
A few nights ago I talked to my niece, she was telling me about kindergarten...talk about a miracle
Our job is to fling s*** against the wall, but we aren't in charge of adhesion, that is some/one/thing else's job, but we don't stop flinging that poop, because we never know what is gonna stick, and if our basic problem is we are selfish and self centered, the "I got mine, good luck getting yours" attitude, what better way to address that then by helping others?
So while I agree with the "sink or swim" attitude, I have also taken men into my home, provided them with food and shelter, given them a job, got them on their feet until I could get them into a Sober Living environment, my "record" there is 2 are well into their second decade, one is approaching his third, and one made it for 5 years, present whereabouts unknown, which is about what the BB says right? 75% percent success rate? These also happened to the men that were there for me YEARS later when I needed a hand, and I didn't ask for it, they offered
Never avoid these responsibilities, but be sure you are doing the right thing if you assume them. Helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery. A kindly act once in a while isn't enough. You have to act the Good Samaritan every day, if need be. It may mean the loss of many nights' sleep, great interference with your pleasures, interruptions to your business. It may mean sharing your money and your home, counseling frantic wives and relatives, innumerable trips to police courts, sanitariums, hospitals, jails and asylums. Your telephone may jangle at any time of the day or night. Your wife may sometimes say she is neglected. A drunk may smash the furniture in your home, or burn a mattress. You may have to fight with him if he is violent. Sometimes you will have to call a doctor and administer sedatives under his direction. Another time you may have to send for the police or an ambulance. Occasionally you will have to meet such conditions.
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
LB, my eyes starting leaking reading about your sister. That's pretty tough right there. I too shared my house (3 out of 4 bedrooms) with people in early sobriety. None that I twelve stepped, and I too was in my first 3 years. None of us drank and I learned how to live sober with them. I've only been asked a half a dozen times to be a sponsor and all had more than 3 years, except one and he didn't make it, at least not that time around. Sometimes I feel guilty about not having given back enough to the program. Perhaps my time hasn't come yet.
LB, my eyes starting leaking reading about your sister. That's pretty tough right there. I too shared my house (3 out of 4 bedrooms) with people in early sobriety. None that I twelve stepped, and I too was in my first 3 years. None of us drank and I learned how to live sober with them. I've only been asked a half a dozen times to be a sponsor and all had more than 3 years, except one and he didn't make it, at least not that time around. Sometimes I feel guilty about not having given back enough to the program. Perhaps my time hasn't come yet.
I don't believe you haven't "given back enough" to the Program, I just don't believe it, that was the whole point of what I was writing, is we never know WHAT we do will have "impact" on someone else's life
The biggest "thanks" I ever get are when I am coming from a place of no ego, when I open my mouth to blather on about my utterly idiotic "vast wisdom" and the side of my neck opens up and I don't know WHO in the hell I am channeling, or who in the hell is spilling all my deepest darkest secrets, sufferings, and struggles at Group level because it sure isn't me, I didn't plan on saying ANY of that stuff out loud
That's when I get the thank you's, that's when I get people asking me to sponsor them, and those are the shares people remember years later, sometimes much to my dismay, such as my sponsee sharing at group level about how he had just stopped at a "massage parlor" and "his sponsor said it was OK" because it "wasn't a relationship" mutter mumble..... I still get grief for that one lol
The other one is simply being nice to people especially at their first few meetings, I always make a point to listen/look for newcomers and approach them after the meeting, not so much to talk, but to listen, those are also the people that come up and thank me for the next few decades, they always remember me as the first person that was nice to them and said hello to them, and quite often took them to coffee, maybe fed them, that has a profound impact on people, I think we are so desperately lonely and frightened when we get here that a simple smile can be one of the nicest things to ever happen to us in our lives at the right moment
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it's not the change that's painful, it's the resistance to change that is painful
I relapsed many times while working with my first sponsor. It was not until I hooked up with my current sponsor that I was able to stay sober, but it took all those relapses and the work with my first sponsor to get me to that point. You may just be part of the process of which you have not yet seen the outcome.
Im going thru/dealing with somewhat similiar problems with sponsee's and potential sponsee's and I can get so discouraged sometimes.
I remember being about 2 yrs sober and feeling like I was really finally starting to sober up, coming out of a very long sleep. Id worked the steps, had already been sponsoring other gals, and things seemed pretty well. Altho I was having a hard time finding/making balance in my life. You know, trying to work, take care of my family, domestic stuff, AA, service work in AA, sponsoring, community events and groups. I was a very busy gal.
It was then that my sponsor told me that in order for me to find a happy medium and maintain a healthy balance, my life should be God first, Family second and AA third.
Since I have structured my life like this, things are good and I am happy on a regular basis.
Bill recovered alcoholic, so this past week I had noone to help thru the steps .I do have guys I sponsor and they do call or we see each other . God has blessed me so much . He gives me every thing I need. I go to the one of the sober
clubs to a meeting . A new guy ask me to be his sponsor.I got time. Then two days later Joe text me . He was off the grid for awhile but back willing to do any thing this is the 3 rd time that he has done this since he approached me in the spring. Noone else will have hin so he says I don't mind I got time.the same with charlie will is back around. I got time .I get to see grace and mercy . I will get them back in the book red ink and all . And me and the other guys will work with them .its always two guys to a baby. Keeps to other one honest. Or it the good cop bad cop they just don't know who will be at the table. We are people who would normally not mix.so after I do my upon awakening take a look at my life get armed with the facts ask God to remove my defects and direct my thinking . I go and serve Him and perform His work .I know what Gods will for me today is. I leave the results up to Him .
