The Full explanation of the 9th step is here for those with Questions:

Now we need more action, without which we find that "Faith without works is dead." Let's look at Steps Eight and Nine. We have a list of all persons we have harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. We subjected ourselves to a drastic self- appraisal. Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which has accumulated out of our effort to live on self-will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol.

Probably there are still some misgivings. As we look over the list of business acquaintances and friends we have hurt, we may feel diffident about going to some of them on a spiritual basis. Let us be reassured. To some people we need not, and probably should not emphasize the spiritual feature on our first approach. We might prejudice them. At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. It is seldom wise to approach an individual, who still smarts from our injustice to him, and announce that we have gone religious. In the prize ring, this would be called leading with the chin. Why lay ourselves open to being branded fanatics or religious bores? We may kill a future opportunity to carry a beneficial message. But our man is sure to be impressed with a sincere desire to set right the wrong. He is going to be more interested in a demonstration of good will than in our talk of spiritual discoveries.

We don't use this as an excuse for shying away from the subject of God. When it will serve any good purpose, we are willing to announce our convictions with tact and common sense. The question of how to approach the man we hated will arise. It may be he has done us more harm than we have done him and, though we may have acquired a better attitude toward him, we are still not too keen about admitting our faults. Nevertheless, with a person we dislike, we take the bit in our teeth. It is harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial to us. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret.

Under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue. Simply tell him that we will never get over drinking until we have done our utmost to straighten out the past. We are there to sweep off our side of the street, realizing that nothing worth while can be accomplished until we do so, never trying to tell him what he should do. His faults are not discussed. We stick to our own. If our manner is calm, frank, and open, we will be gratified with the result.

In nine cases out of ten the unexpected happens. Sometimes the man we are calling upon admits his own fault, so feuds of years' standing melt away in an hour. Rarely do we fail to make satisfactory progress. Our former enemies sometimes praise what we are doing and wish us well. Occasionally, they will offer assistance. It should not matter, however, if someone does throw us out of his office. We have made our demonstration, done our part. It's water over the dam.

Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.

Perhaps we have committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if it were known to the authorities. We may be short in our accounts and unable to make good. We have already admitted this in confidence to another person, but we are sure we would be imprisoned or lose our job if it were known. Maybe it's only a petty offense such as padding the expense account. Most of us have done that sort of thing. Maybe we are divorced, and have remarried but haven't kept up the alimony to number one. She is indignant about it, and has a warrant out for our arrest. That's a common form of trouble too.

Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything.

Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. A man we know had remarried. Because of resentment and drinking, he had not paid alimony to his first wife. She was furious. She went to court and got an order for his arrest. He had commenced our way of life, had secured a position, and was getting his head above water. It would have been impressive heroics if he had walked up to the Judge and said, "Here I am."

We thought he ought to be willing to do that if necessary, but if he were in jail he could provide nothing for either family. We suggested he write his first wife admitting his faults and asking forgiveness. He did, and also sent a small amount of money. He told her what he would try to do in the future. He said he was perfectly willing to go to jail is she insisted. Of course she did not, and the whole situation has only since been adjusted. Before taking drastic action which might implicate other people we secure their consent. If we have obtained permission, have consulted with others, asked God to help and the drastic step is indicated we must not shrink.

This brings to mind a story about one of our friends. While drinking, he accepted a sum of money from a bitterly-hated business rival, giving him no receipt for it. He subsequently denied having received the money and used the incident as a basis for discrediting the man. He thus used his own wrong- doing as a means of destroying the reputation of another. In fact, his rival was ruined.

He felt that he had done a wrong he could not possibly make right. If he opened that old affair, he was afraid it would destroy the reputation of his partner, disgrace his family and take away his means of livelihood. What right had he to involve those dependent upon him? How could he possibly make a public statement exonerating his rival?

After consulting with his wife and partner he came to the conclusion that it was better to take those risks than to stand before his Creator guilty of such ruinous slander. He saw that he had to place the outcome in God's hands or he would soon start drinking again, and all would be lost anyhow. He attended church for the first time in many years. After the sermon, he quietly got up and made an explanation. His action met widespread approval, and today he is one of the most trusted citizens of his town. This all happened years ago.

The chances are that we have domestic troubles. Perhaps we are mixed up with women in a fashion we wouldn't care to have advertised. We doubt if, in this respect, alcoholics are fundamentally much worse that other people. But drinking does complicate sex relations in the home. After a few years with an alcoholic, a wife get worn out, resentful and uncommunicative. How could she be anything else? The husband begins to feel lonely, sorry for himself. He commences to look around in the night clubs, or their equivalent, for something besides liquor. Perhaps he is having a secret and exciting affair with "the girl who understands." In fairness we must say that she may understand, but what are we going to do about a thing like that? A man so involved often feels very remorseful at times, especially if he is married to a loyal and courageous girl who has literally gone through hell for him.

Whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it. If we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell here? Not always, we think. If she knows in a general way that we have been wild, should we tell her it detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault. She may insist on knowing all the particulars. She will want to know who the woman is and where she is. We feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person. We are sorry for what we have done and, God willing, it shall not be repeated. More than that we cannot do; we have no right to go further. Though there may be justifiable exceptions, and though we wish to lay down no rule of any sort, we have often found this the best course to take.

Our design for living is not a one-way street. It is as good for the wife as for the husband. If we can forget, so can she. It is better, however, that one does not needlessly name a person upon whom she can vent jealousy.

Perhaps there are some cases where the utmost frankness is demanded. No outsider can appraise such an intimate situation. It may be that both will decide that the way of good sense and loving kindness is to let by-gones be by-gones. Each might pray about it, having the other one's happiness uppermost in mind. Keep it always in sight that we are dealing with that most terrible human emotion, jealousy. Good generalship may decide that the problem be attacked on the flank rather than risk a face-to- face combat.

If we have no such complication, there is plenty we should do at home. Sometimes we hear an alcoholic say that the only thing he needs to do is to keep sober. Certainly he must keep sober, for there will be no home if he doesn't. But he is yet a long way from making good to the wife or parents whom for years he has so shockingly treated. Passing all understanding is the patience mothers and wives have had with alcoholics. Had this not been so, many of us would have no homes today, would perhaps be dead.

The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept he home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, "Don't see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?" Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't fill the bill at all. We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being very careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness and love.

The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it. Unless one's family expresses a desire to live upon spiritual principles we think we ought not to urge them. We should not talk incessantly to them about spiritual matters. They will change in time. Our behavior will convince them more than our words. We must remember that ten or twenty years of drunkenness would make a skeptic out of anyone.

There may be some wrongs we can never fully right. We don't worry about them if we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could. Some people cannot be seen - we sent them an honest letter. And there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases. But we don't delay if it can be avoided. We should be sensible, tactful, considerate and humble without being servile or scraping. As God's people we stand on our feet; we don't crawl before anyone.

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.

Righting the wrong--making every diligent and conceivable effort to do so---and not inflicitng even more pain on someone else in the process--is the gateway to "the promises". Having those promises become fullfilled in our individual lives is the most incredible, liberating, gift of mercy! We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

Klaatu wrote:

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So how about this one. Which is more important...making the amends or becoming willing to make the amends. Thoughts?

K.....

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Well I think becoming willing is getting yourself right with the world, and making the amends is making the situation right with the other person, one is working on our own self centered behavior, the other is doing something about it

Good question though, definately thought provoking and can't have one without the other, but it makes me think of the line "I used to judge myself by my intentions while the rest of the world was judging me by my actions, become willing is merely good intentions, necessary true, but like the story of the 3 frogs on the lily pad, one made a decision to jump off, how many were left?

3, he only made the decision to jump off, necessary to jump off true, but no action taken

 

Becoming willing is more important because that reflects the change inside (or the inside job as they say)...You you become willing, you make living amends anyhow just by changing your behavior. Anyone can say sorry and think that they meaning, but being willing...really willing means that you are ready to change your behavior.

I think that in the process of becoming willing...your behavior actually does change. Step 6 and step 8 are action steps too. Becoming willing is not procrastination because you become willing by acting different, by doing things different, and by thinking differently. It is those steps where you challenge yourself to be a better person. You just ask God for the ability to carry out your willingness to change and rid yourself of defects in step 7 and you express to others that you are changed person in step 9. I think there is actually more work in steps 6 and 8. Procrastination would be sitting around thinking about what if...It would be different that truly becoming willing. Just my take.

I spent years thinking I was willing to quit drinking

it didn't mean anything until I took action

People think Love is a noun

Love is an action word, it's a verb, love isn't how I feeeeel about you, love is how I treat you

We can act ourselves into right thinking, but we can't think ourselves into right acting

There is no either or

become willing, take the action

I requote:

Before A.A. I judged myself by my intentions, while the world was judging me by my actions.

The Road to Hell is paved with Good intentions

The Road to Sobriety is paved with Good actions, with a ton of train wrecks and idiotic thinking, but hey, that's where we get good judgment, which comes from experience, most of which comes from bad judgment

It's all Good, it's just I learned personally I can't think my way out of a paper bag if it was on fire, nor find my ass with two hands and a map, so it's best if I just do the next right thing



Shakespeare said, All the worlds a stage, and all the men and women merely players. He forgot to mention that I was the chief critic. I was always able to see the flaw in every person, every situation. And I was always glad to point it out, because I knew you wanted perfection, just as I did. A.A. and acceptance have taught me that there is a bit of good in the worst of us and a bit of bad in the best of us; that we are all children of God and we each have a right to be here. When I complain about me or about you, I am complaining about Gods handiwork. I am saying that I know better than God.

For years I was sure the worst thing that could happen to a nice guy like me would be that I would turn out to be an alcoholic. Today I find its the best thing that has ever happened to me. This proves I dont know whats good for me. And if I dont know whats good for me, then I dont know whats good or bad for you or for anyone. So Im better off if I dont give advice, dont figure I know whats best, and just accept life on lifes terms, as it is todayespecially my own life, as it actually is. Before A.A. I judged myself by my intentions, while the world was judging me by my actions.

-- Edited by LinBaba on Friday 12th of November 2010 07:37:16 PM

Hi all,

Maybe becoming willing to make amends. shouldnt be separated from the rest of step 8 which is to make a list of all persons we had harmed?? Like, we make the list which is a doing thing and become willing to make amends. Then we go to step 9 which progresses things by making the amends wherever possible. I agree that you cant have one without the other. I think that all the steps are "doing" steps - maybe some are just easier to see being done than others ??? Maybe some people find the willing bit harder than the doing bit and others vice versa. Oh geez now my head hurts!!!!

This is a great dialogue by the way, I love these discussions, well done Brian for throwing a question in that provoked a discussion

"Steps Eight and Nine are concerned with personal relations.First, we take a look backward and try to discover where we have been at fault; next we make a vigorous attempt to repair the damage we have done; and third, having thus cleaned away the debris of the past, we consider how, with our newfound knowledge of ourselves, we may develop the best possible relations with every human being we know.

Thing is, when my sponsor asked me "Are you willing to go to any lengths?" I answered "Yes" when I had no idea what that meant

Well, at some of them I balked, was reminded I said I would go to any length, and then did whatever it is I said I'd do but I did it unwillingly, step 4, parts of step 9 etc, and then I got the promises, each step has conditions, promises, and a prayer

If you do this like this, you get this, every step has that

Anyhow, in the 8th step list we make 4 columns

After we have made the list of people we have harmed, have reflected carefully upon each instance, and have tried to possess ourselves of the right attitude in which to proceed, we will see that the making of direct amends divides those we should approach into several classes.There will be those who ought to be dealt with just as soon as we become reasonably confident that we can maintain our sobriety.There will be those to whom we can make only partial restitution, lest complete disclosures do them or others more harm than good.There will be other cases where action ought to be deferred, and still others in which by the very nature of the situation we shall never be able to make direct personal contact at all.

Immediate (getterdone, starts the day we start getting sober, includes living amends) "Good judgment, a careful sense of timing, courage, and prudence -- these are the qualities we shall need when we take Step Nine. Most of us begin making certain kinds of direct amends from the day we join Alcoholics Anonymous. There will be those who ought to be dealt with just as soon as we become reasonably confident that we can maintain our sobriety

Partial There will be those to whom we can make only partial restitution, lest complete disclosures do them or others more harm than good.

Deferred (there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases. But we don't delay if it can be avoided.)There will be other cases where action ought to be deferred

Never (There may be some wrongs we can never fully right. We don't worry about them if we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could.)still others in which by the very nature of the situation we shall never be able to make direct personal contact at all.

So I started with the "immediate" aand truthfully those were the "self serving" amends, because I wanted to do those so I could feeeel better, and so I did, and it worked, so I worked the first 3, and by the time I got to my "never" list, which is where I needed the willingness, the action I took in the first 3 columns gave me the willingness needed to approach the 4th column

Einstein said you can't fix whats broken with the same level of thinking that caused it to be broken in the first place, So I can't use my alcoholic mind to fix my alcoholic mind, nor use self will to fix my self will, make some changes through action and it's a whole new ball game

Bill was smart, or got lucky, in my experience, working the steps gave me the power to work the steps, and if done properly the steps seem to "work themselves" or "start working me"

Anyhow, that is "right acting" got me into "right thinking" in this instance, I am a big fan of Cognitive Behavioral therapy, and AA uses a style of it frequently, turning our thoughts others, our higher power, praying for willingness etc but I think with alcoholics more then just cog therapy is needed, meetings, steps, action, prayer, meditation all create almost a three dimensional environment for the brain to change, 90 in 90 is an example of cog therapy, because it takes 90 days to change a habit, so replace drinking with meetings as yet another tool in early sobriety with sponsor, steps etc

great discussion



-- Edited by LinBaba on Saturday 13th of November 2010 10:27:51 AM