Yeah, I tend to agree--it really doesn't matter how or why (except to researchers who would like to prevent it)--by the time you find out you're in trouble you're already in trouble.  I've heard lots of people swear they were alcoholics from their first drink.  I think I always tended to overdo everything and have an addictive-type personality, but it wasn't until I was drinking on a daily basis that I developed a physical dependency to go along with the rest.  Because in the past I had quit drinking, almost entirely, for months or even years at a time (when I was living with alcoholics whom I was trying to support), I didn't think I would ever become an alcoholic.  I thunk wrong.

For me, at this point, the how and why are pretty much irrelevant.  I believe that if I were to pick up a drink, I would probably seem just fine for somewhere between a week and a few months.  But ultimately the siren call would lure me back to letting it rule my life again.  It would be irresistible.  I never again want to feel the way I did at the end of my drinking.  Desperate, pathetic, disgusted with myself and unable to stop.

And, for what it's worth, the "experts" don't know what causes it, either.  I suspect for everyone it's some combination of biology/genetics, upbringing, environment, culture, personality.  Some factors are probably more predominant than others in different people.  For some, it's probably more biological, and for others, the social factors may have played a bigger role. *shrug*  We all wind up being unable to drink safely, so, fortunately, we can all be helped by AA.

Hey Toni,
Great discussion and it has made me do some thinking as well.
And I do believe an answer is in the book, Im just to lazy to find it, unfortuneately. And honestly I think its okay for me to just answer a question without having to see or read what it says in the book.

Im an alcoholic, I know it and besides God, nobody knows me better than me.

Because I come from a long line of alcoholics in my family, Id have to say that my alcoholism is genetic. This doesnt mean that my Aunt Mary Jane ( who died with 25 yrs sober ) was the cause of my drinking or that she made me drink, cuz she didnt. Nor did my great Uncle Jack.

I dont believe that I drank alcoholically from my first drink. I dont think I became alcoholic until I was near 30 yrs old. Thats when I crossed the line from problem/heavy drinker to ........ uh oh, Im outa control and I kinda sorta feel it, but dont know what to do about it drinking.

I dislike the word 'disease'. I prefer to use sickness or illness. I dont have a disease that tells me I dont have a diseasee. I have a disease that tells me if I drink Im gonna die. Plain and simple. ( yeah, I know I used the word disease lol ) And ... my disease is not out in the parking lot doing push ups waiting for me to come out of a meeting lol.

I guess Im just a small percentage ( that recognizes and admits it ) of the human race that cannot drink socially. I cannot take 1 drink and stop every time I drink. And I most certainly cannot stop drinking on my own resources. Therefor, Im powerless over alcohol. And ya know there is a part of me that really and truely thinks I made myself this way. Cuz when things got bad or at least started too ... ie: hangovers, missed work, fighting in relationships, lying, stealing, the 1st dui charge, depression and awful mood swings, etc, etc. I would have thought that I could have seen all of this and said to myself " Hey, Lori, you need to stop drinking, it is ruining your life". But I didnt, I just kept getting worse. So, maybe I did do this to myself. Maybe I did make myself alcoholic.

Hmmmmm ... Now this has really got me thinking , lol. Im gonna talk to my sponsor about this and see what she has to share. Im also interested in reading what others might share too.

Great thread Toni...you're special so I have to drop the "just" part.  For me
I was born and raised in the disease and no one ever mentioned "Alcoholic or
Alcoholism" or the like.   To mention that word would be like exposing a moral
disability.  It was never raised.  I remember my first drink at the age of 9; a
glass of Portugese "Red" from my Grand-mother on some holiday and I later
while in recovery, remember how my Mother fought her mother in trying not
to let her children have the wine.  I learned later about the alcoholism in my
family on both sides, Mother and natural Father who was a splitting image of
a FAS child and died of tuberculosis which has a strong link to alcoholism.  I
searched to get the knowledge I have today.   I could have never known what
was to happen on that first drink.  I will remember it intimately for the rest
of my life...God in a bottle!!  Had I been told the experience of it would have
said tons more to me.  My first drink was not my choice.  It was my grand-
mother's.  Had she been able to know what I know today and also been able
to forsee the future I can just hope that she would have made another decision
however only hindsight is twenty/twenty and here I am today a member of AA.
No regrets in the least. 

I did not find out I was alcoholic until I took my very own assessment 9 years
after I had stopped drinking!!  God worked it out for me that way because of
the many things I was in denial about there was one thing that was soon to
come thru the front door of my life and that was the probablility of relapse.

Yes I own every drinking event even without the information...I own it all and
since it was never a moral issue for me there was never guilt or shame.  I
drank and several times overdosed on alcohol...I still didn't wonder about
alcohol, alcoholism or being alcoholic...I simply drank too much on those
occasions and survived the event.  What I found out about relapse which
came at the same time of my assessment was that when and if I returned
to drinking I would not restart where I had my first drink but would resume
where I left off.  Overdose is not a good place to restart especially while the
disease was taking score with all of the drinks I had to make up on. 

I go with the AMA (American Medical Association) definition of alcoholism that
describes the disease and educates me about how it works in and with me and
every other alcoholic.  I also go with the college education I got on the disease
which I was led to by my HP because it was there that I learned how I was so
chemically tolerant and why my skin had an Eastern hue; yellowish-green and
why it lingered for 5 years after I stopped drinking. 

Today I have the education and the experience and the compulsion all tightly
wrapped up in the same body.  The education and the experiences I have of
sitting at the knees of thousands of recoverying alcoholics and their family
members and coming here to MIP surpresses the compulsion to drink and for
that I am amazed and grateful.   And you are not "just" Toni I know when HP
puts a person and their recovery in front of me.   Like now.

((((hugs))))

I like your analogy Barisax . But have to wonder ... how many ppl break their arm on purpose ?

The Doctors opion in the big book explains the different types of alcoholics. There is many ways to get there. Most that hit bottom are morally bankrupt. What really matters is to stay sober.
I socially drank at first but from the first drink I felt part of the crowd. So it became my friend and then later my master. I eneded up morally bankrupt, but feel I didnt plan this. My daughter has the isms but knows that from the time I did have in AA. She is not morally bankrupt yet,,,and hope she never does.
Keep it simple for we Alcoholics like to complicate things. Dont matter how I got here but what I do about it today.
Hugs and may your smile brighten someones life today.

I do think alcoholism is a mental illness of sorts. It takes a certain amount of both nature and nurture. CLEARLY there are genetic influences....we all know that from seeing that abnormally high rates of alcoholism and addiciton in our families. That said, it takes exposure and some practice with drinking to become a full blown alcoholic.

Either way, nature or nurture...Nobody plans on being alcoholic so my thought is we do not bring this on ourselves, but we do have to take responsibility over our past and the harm we caused when drinking in order to progress in recovery. I heard one person in a meeting say something along time lines of "I feel so good about myself today because I know I have a disease and none of the stuff I did was really my fault since I have this disease." Well...that did not sit well with me and that guy did relapse. I guess the point is that now that we are sober, we do own our actions and that includes past ones even though we did not ask to reach that point of incomprehensible demoralization and addiction.