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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Alcoholics Anonymous -> Alcoholics Anonymous -> Atheism and Alcoholism
Post Info TOPIC: Atheism and Alcoholism
Mort


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Atheism and Alcoholism
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First off, I mean absolutely no ill will towards theists.  I was raised as a devout Shi'ite Muslim.  I started loving astronomy, and as I matured I realized god was a delusion.  I realized we we weren't as special as we thought.  It led me to a nihilistic philosophy.  My alcoholism didn't seem like a big deal, because in the grand scheme, it really meant nothing.  I drank a fermented liquid and destroyed my relationships with everyone I loved and knew, and in the end I'd be buried in the dirt and slowly rot away into fertilizer.

I've done my due dilligence and sifted through these forums.  A lot of people have the crutch of their god to rely on for strength and whatever else they think this invisible man provides them.  I am an alcoholic, I'm looking for meaning in this universe, the typical alcoholic schtick--that if somehow this disease stops everything will be okay.  How do atheist alcoholics deal with this?  Theists need not apply.

I've read plenty of posts with people claiming a god was their inspiration for a final change.  That may be the case, but I'm not like that, I'll never convince myself about spirituality and supernatural powers.

So I'm wondering, how have rationalists overcome this addiction without god?  Tell me your stories.  I'm looking for a unique brand of help.

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barisax


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Theist:  There is a god, and I ain't him.

Athiest: There is no god, and I ain't him.

In my opinion, the second half of the statement is more important to recovery than the first.  Notice the second half is the same regardless of the first half.  I've seen people recover - plenty of them - from both sides.

As an astronomer, do you believe that a galaxy is a power greater than yourself? 

If you truly believe that "in the end I'd be buried in the dirt and slowly rot away into fertilizer" then you know this life is all you have.  That may be the best reason of all to desire to have the best life possible, there's no bailout at the end, no second chance.

Barisax


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AGO


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First, you aren't unique, I would say roughly 90% of the people I have met when they were new expressed the exact same sentiments as you since I don't live in The Bible Belt, you being unique will kill you dead, learn that first or struggle and die, it's up to you, every single alcoholic I know that remained unique, that held on to that uniqueness, died or is still drinking, that is a fact

you remain "unique" you suffer from "terminal uniqueness" which gives you a get out of jail free card for your behavior, unique is a necessary component of denial, lose it or die, it's that simple

Read this for terminal uniqueness

Second Barisax is dead on, every word he speaks is truth

I found I didn't need be a theist or have a deity to work the steps, when Bill says "why don't you choose your own concept of God?" I did just that, I literally tossed out the Christian concept or any concept that included a "guiding intelligence" or a deity

It needed but one criteria, it needed to be a power greater then myself (easy), it didn't need to be an "invisible man" or as I put it, "My God doesn't have a willy", it's hard to explain because I now talk of "God" with my friends, who are also atheist/agnostic, or Christian, or Buddhist, or Muslim and we agree entirely, but who also chose their own concept of God, now in order to do this one needs to literally think "outside the box", I had to learn how to completely let go of any preconceived notion I had with the word "God" and go to the dictionary, and one of the definitions is "The Great Reality"

If you don't believe in The Great Reality, I'd like you to stick yourself in the eye with a sharp stick, then get back to me, if you don't believe in a power greater then yourself, I suggest going to the ocean and attempting to stop the waves from rolling in, or stick your tongue in an electric socket, then get back to me.

I have now taken probably over 35 atheist/agnostics through the steps effortlessly, and explained it to thousands of others

I view the steps as a mathematical equation in which in order to work need a value similar to the square root of zero, namely one that can't be proved but one that is necessary for the equation to work, in this case it needs to be a power greater then and seperate from "self" because manifestations of "self" are what defeated us, we come in thinking it's our drinking that is the problem, but it turns out it's our thinking, we need to literally rewire the circuitry in our brain to achieve any sort of happy, lasting sobriety, the steps give us that opportunity

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=42763&p=3&topicID=34358076

Read that, if you are actually interested in being able to work the steps without a deity, feel you can be honest, willing and LITERALLY have an open mind, that means tossing out all pre-existing concepts of God, not just paying some bullshit lip service, PM me and I will be happy to walk you through it.

If you don't feel able to seperate the word God from it's Christian Deity associations or stop thinking you are unique I can't help you, If you can be open minded, let go of your old ideas, and let go of being unique, I can help you easily



-- Edited by AGO on Monday 21st of June 2010 01:49:12 PM

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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Mort


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Thank you for the link. I'll get back to you after I've read it all since it's precisely what I was looking for.

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Mike B.


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Thank you all for the question and replies.  Live, learn and grow.

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mikef


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Welcome Mort..Hope to hear more from you!!!smile

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turninggrey


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Yo, Barisax! you blew my mind a little bit with the:
"If you truly believe that "in the end I'd be buried in the dirt and slowly rot away into fertilizer" then you know this life is all you have. That may be the best reason of all to desire to have the best life possible, there's no bailout at the end, no second chance." Bravo.
Ago, you rock:
"If you don't believe in The Great Reality, I'd like you to stick yourself in the eye with a sharp stick, then get back to me, if you don't believe in a power greater then yourself, I suggest going to the ocean and attempting to stop the waves from rolling in, or stick your tongue in an electric socket, then get back to me."


Mort, You have been open minded enough to find the path to where you are now. Can you be open minded enough to continue your journey of self enlightenment by exploring the path that has worked for many of us with or without a theist background? The problem you have is that you have a lot of time on your hands before you rot away into fertilizer. How will you spend it? Will you be a dark lush or a spark of light?


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janet


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WOW! I think I just had a spiritual awakening! LOL!

What good stuff, thanks for all the wonderful input.
I had to bookmark it.

J



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Rob84


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I was atheist when I walked through the doors also, you don't need to believe in God, just a power greater than yourself.

A) I don't believe you think you are the highest power on earth or "God", otherwise you would not be asking for help here.

B) If we are not "God", we need to stop playing our own God/Higher Power. If we don't, does that not leave us with a alcoholic/addict for a God/Higher Power?

C) If we don't have the power to solve our addiction by ourselves, then we need a power greater than ourselves....if one does not exsist where does that leave us?

If you can believe in a power greater than yourself, you can work the 12 steps and stay sober....more will be revieled.

BTW, Great Post AGO

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Jerry F


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Aloha Mort and welcome to the board.  The lead causes me to smile and remember
my own journey.  I was taught by early sponsorship to "get out of my head" and get
into my center and when I stopped trying to figure everything out so that I could
arrive at power I felt my higher power and heard my higher power.  When I attempted
to be soooo self righteous my early sponsor taught me to ask myself a very important
question; "could I be wrong?".  If I answered no or never I was gonna be qualified
for the comedy circuit. Hearing myself answer yes and often lead me to what has
already been mentioned as a very necessary asset "an open mind".  I was a theology
student is school and did lots of service within my religion of birth and culture including
instructing others who sought membership in my church.  I did what I was led to do
and kept an open mind which included listening to the ancients, the indigenous
peoples around the world.  What I always heard them refer to was "the great creator"
or "master creator" or "god father" and more.  These races of peoples are the eldest
and most intact regarding a belief in a power greater than themselves and anything.
They are good teachers, never in their heads about it and believe without reservation
which is a definition of faith now for me.  "Humility is being teachable" given to me
by some instrument from within the program.

Keep searching and bringing it hear.   smile

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