The young man at the podium tonight described how this disease took him to a bridge and he stated that he was so selfish that he even resolved to smoke his entire last pack of cigarettes before he jumped, lest God forbid someone else found them and got to smoke his last cigarettes after he died.....
Anyway, this young guy was on fire, and stated that since he worked the Steps a few years ago he has not had the urge to pick up a drink. He worked the Steps, with a sponsor's guidance, without pause.... this young man was so sick and tired of being sick and tired that he followed the instructions in the Big Book and the 12 & 12 (Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions book) and talked on the phone with his sponsor about Step 4, did Step 5 in person with his sponsor, and then proceded with the rest of the Steps, having a spiritual awakening,.... in just a few days he worked through all the steps and started at once helping newcomers and getting active. He said he does not believe alcoholics need the distraction of being told to "take it slow" with the Steps. He cited the founders who worked the Steps with newcomers at once, at a time that the first handful of alcoholics were on fire and spreading AA's message with fervor. In his AA life, this guy walks the walk. You can see it. He has humility and is always helping other guys. He does not even comment at every discussion meeting. He seems to be one of the most serious people about AA that I have ever seen, and he also has a good sense of humor, so not too maudlin or dry. He is happy, joyous and free.
What do you all think about this, about working the Steps PRONTO, as this young man has?
I have already decided I am not going to wait any longer to get busy. It is something I have not tried yet, and I am hungry for more action in AA as I know that this is what is going to keep me sober. Why wait around on any of the Steps, if I work them seriously and to the best of my ability, sponsor and HP at my side? I am sick and tired of being sick and tired, and sick of staying sick even when I have had a few years sober, and waffling around on some step that was not complete.
What do you think?
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Great post! I have wondered the same. I was pretty young when I got in the program and I pursued the program in the same way. In retrospect, I did not really deeply understand the steps, but I got to a feeling of true spiritualism (step 12) much quicker and THAT is what sustained me even though the earlier steps may not have been understood with all the burdens of adulthood--but that was because I spent less time exposed. I am interested to see the other opinions............ Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
OK, I have a question, can you tell if someone has worked the steps or not without them telling you?
sometimes I can tell just by looking at them, I can always tell within 2 minutes of them opening their mouths, even if they aren't talking AA and we aren't in a meeting.
People who work the steps have something happen to them
I spent a good part of the last year hanging out in a coffee shop when the house i moved into was being renovated, and I was constantly asking people as they walked by "are you sober?"
they were
I was also approached repeatedly by random strangers and asked if I was sober.
I'd ask how they could tell, they said just by watching me walk through and interact with people, how I was helpful and friendly, and that my whole bearing shouted sobriety, I was even asked to "chair" or speak" at meetings about 5 times out of that coffee shop by literal strangers, they'd just walk up, ask me to speak at a meeting.
The steps change who you are and it is evident to everyone around you, I recently ran into a friend I hadn't seen for a few years at a meeting, he was unrecognizable, he was so serene and at peace it EMANATED from him like a palpable thing, it was like meeting Jesus or a Buddha, it was very strange, he only had 3? 2? years at the time, I am going to his wedding next week.
I love him
so...ummm...yeah, do the steps in the first six months, start getting sponsees, study the traditions the second six months, rework the steps again at a year then very year or two thereafter, that's how I was taught, some old crotchety guys say you only have to work the steps once but thats because they haven't got off their ass and worked the steps since the eisenhower administration and they are usually drier then a popcorn fart and very mean and we don't smoke near them or we'll explode in flames hahahahaha
yes, it's my understanding that we work the steps, and there is a time frame, it says things like "decision" and "at once" and "immediately" and "we don't wait" and "upon awakening" and "on retiring at night" and "every day" and "daily reprieve"
-- Edited by AGO on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 09:31:57 PM
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
"What do you all think about this, about working the Steps PRONTO, as this young man has?"
That is what worked for me. All too many alcoholics are given well meaning but deadly advice to take it slow. They never get to the point of a complete change in thier lives before they suddenly find them selves drinking again. This is a viscious cycle that repeats over and over.
I am sure glad that I had a hard nose sponsor that dragged me kicking and screaming through the 12 steps. I was told I did not have to like it I just had to do it. Sure worked in my case.
Larry, -------------------- People are only defensive when you're touching a "nerve."
-- Edited by Larry_H on Tuesday 11th of May 2010 10:09:41 PM
I know it's great to be inspired by a good humble lead. I just know you from the forum, but my opinion in your case is that you have most of your mental facilties, and have been in the program for a while and have learned a lot about yourself in the past, so I would think you could start right away.
In my opinion: steps 1 and 2 are acceptance steps and can be done in the first weeks/month of soberiety.
step 3 is a decision that needs to be applied in your actions and life.
step 4 and 5 is where it gets sticky.
I have sponsored a fair amount of guys and I used to think I was doing my job by pushing everyone through 4 and 5 quickly.
I believe today that everyone is different in when they can actually look at themselves without the fog and do even a decent inventory. If it takes 9 to 12 months to get out of the fog and get his mental bearings, so be it.
Better to do a decent 4th and 5th a little later than to have someone who can't even clearly look at themselves think they actually did the steps.
To do a decent 4th step you need to be able to "get out of yourself" to look at yourself, which means practicing an applying the 3d step.
If guys are showing some humility, show some care for others and the group, greeting new people as they should, make phone calls and get active (and I ask them to do these things), then they are practicing the 3d step.
If they are not doing the above, they are still 100% into themselves and there is no way for them to step back away and do any kind of 4th step, and I'm not listening to any more crappy 5th steps.
Sorry so long.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I have sponsored a fair amount of guys and I used to think I was doing my job by pushing everyone through 4 and 5 quickly.
I believe today that everyone is different in when they can actually look at themselves without the fog and do even a decent inventory. If it takes 9 to 12 months to get out of the fog and get his mental bearings, so be it.
Better to do a decent 4th and 5th a little later than to have someone who can't even clearly look at themselves think they actually did the steps.
Interesting, Rob. I did my first 4th and 5th steps (at my sponsor's direction having readfrom the Foreward through Step 3 in "How It Works" together) at about 4 months sober. When I did my 5th after that inventory, my sponsor called it a "willingness inventory", i.e. I was willing to follow directions through the Steps. I really didn't understand what she meant until later. I did another 4th and 5th just before my first year sobriety birthday, and lo and behold, resentments, fears, and sex misconduct that I had not written in my first 4th step were on the second one. So, my sponsor made it clear from early on, that I was not "done" with the Steps, and that we were going to continue together on the journey to new discoveries and recovery. God bless her and rest her soul (she passed away in 1988). And, thank God for both the sponsors and sponsees I've had since my first sponsor; that's what it's all about for me: being willing to continue to listen and grow from advice and direction from a sponsor, and being willing to share what I've learned with sponsees, who also teach me constantly.
And, all this discussion on the Steps has me thinking: it's really time for ME to do another 4th and 5th Step, and see how much denial I've been living in.
I have sponsored a fair amount of guys and I used to think I was doing my job by pushing everyone through 4 and 5 quickly.
I believe today that everyone is different in when they can actually look at themselves without the fog and do even a decent inventory. If it takes 9 to 12 months to get out of the fog and get his mental bearings, so be it.
Better to do a decent 4th and 5th a little later than to have someone who can't even clearly look at themselves think they actually did the steps.
Interesting, Rob. I did my first 4th and 5th steps (at my sponsor's direction having readfrom the Foreward through Step 3 in "How It Works" together) at about 4 months sober. When I did my 5th after that inventory, my sponsor called it a "willingness inventory", i.e. I was willing to follow directions through the Steps. I really didn't understand what she meant until later. I did another 4th and 5th just before my first year sobriety birthday, and lo and behold, resentments, fears, and sex misconduct that I had not written in my first 4th step were on the second one. So, my sponsor made it clear from early on, that I was not "done" with the Steps, and that we were going to continue together on the journey to new discoveries and recovery. God bless her and rest her soul (she passed away in 1988). And, thank God for both the sponsors and sponsees I've had since my first sponsor; that's what it's all about for me: being willing to continue to listen and grow from advice and direction from a sponsor, and being willing to share what I've learned with sponsees, who also teach me constantly.
BGG
That is my experience as well, both for myself and my sponsees, I was brought through them at around 3-4 months and was re-doing them at around a year and doing them annually or quasi-semi annually as it talks about in the 12 and 12, whenever I go do a Big Book seminar I do them along with the group as well
I was told any job worth doing, is worth doing poorly
what he meant by that is we alcoholics were such perfectionists we could die waiting around until we were ready to do a perfect fourth step, that we could just do the best we could because we were going to be doing it again, because "more will be revealed" so now I just follow instructions when taking sponsees through the steps:
Next we launched out on a course of vigorous action, the first step of which is a personal housecleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision was vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.
Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory. This was Step Four.
I don't drag them kicking and screaming, the funny thing is once one starts actually working the steps they seem to flow of themselves naturally, with one flowing into the next, that was my experience and I have watched it with sponsees, with the sponsees I have had that were willing to work the steps, we seemed to work them on God's schedule, not mine, and with those who weren't willing....
well....
they are still drinking
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
And, all this discussion on the Steps has me thinking: it's really time for ME to do another 4th and 5th Step, and see how much denial I've been living in.
I'm due as well
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
What do you all think about this, about working the Steps PRONTO, as this young man has?
The anwer is.... it depends. I've seen many who want to jump into the steps, and next thing you know they're on step 12 when they really haven't even gotten step 1 down.
It is different for everybody. Bill W. didn't have any steps to work, he stayed sober practicing step 12 for his first 6 months. Dr. Bob was the first to do the steps, even though they had yet to be written - and he did them right away, as chronicled in his story in the Big Book. Many of the early AAs followed suit.
I got a sponsor within the first 7-10 days, and his first official act was to get me into a home group and began taking me to a lot of other non-clubhouse meetings, and I continued to fill in the gaps with clubhouse meetings. Several weeks into it, I said I'm ready to do my 4th step. He wanted me to go over 1, 2, 3 with him.
Bottom line is I hacked away at step 4 for *years*. I moved on, like an accountant with all 12 months of the year kept open on the books. It gets confusing. But my way is to do everything wrong first, then come back and do it right. I stayed sober. When I was 6 or more years sober - I finally did a 4th step by the book and moved forward from there. I did this with a small group of people (which included my recently deceased friend, one other who is still sober, and two others who are not). I can say I definitively worked the steps then. But for me, the accountant's book remains open. I probably do a little bit of each every day.
1. I am constantly reminded of my powerlessness. Over my disease, people, places, and things.
2. I constantly reaffirm my belief in a higher power, that has returned me to sanity or at least steered me in a saner direction.
3. I say the third step prayer every morning and I'm not a morning person.
4. I do mini 4th steps when I get resentments. Not until they are really eating at me of course, but I do.
5. I talk about these mini 4th steps.
6. I try to become willing and ready and I pray for willingness.
7. I say the seventh step prayer every morning and I'm not a morning person.
8. I could make a little 8th step every day. Certainly there is someone whose toes I've stepped on, or whose soup I've pissed in. Every day.
9. When I do, I try to make it right or at least do no more harm. Back off, shut up.
10. Really the 4,5,6,7,8,9 review is my step 10 practice.
11. I always pray for more conscious contact, with God as I do not understand him (actually, anything I can understand is probably not God, and anything that IS God, I don't understand even if I think I do)
12. And I share my brain babble and experience with whoever will listen, and it keeps me sober.
I hope I'm never done with the steps. I think it's just a matter of interpretation - just like the often debated "disease concept" or "recovering vs. recovered". It works for me, I don't care what you call it.
I have sponsored a fair amount of guys and I used to think I was doing my job by pushing everyone through 4 and 5 quickly.
I think you've hit on one of the main reasons why I have not been asked to sponsor very often. I am not good at pushing people to do things that they don't want to do. If they want to do it, I will help any way I can, but if they don't want to do it, I am reluctant to push. Some of that is some self-application of the Golden Rule: I really don't like to be pushed myself. Can pushing save a life? Well... here's that phrase again... it depends.
I've wondered in these past few days if I should have pestered my lost friend when he dropped out of AA. I did for a while, but it was via emails saying don't be a stranger. I've looked back at all those emails - and they do reveal a growing frustration on his part with his situation. But all of this before he started drinking - after that, nothing. Better people than me tried to reach him. One may have had a pinky finger or a lock of hair before he slipped beneath the icy waters for the last time. Breaks my heart to think what almost was. But... as much as I loved this person, I loved him enough to leave him alone. Maybe practicing my Alanon detachment to a fault. I just wanted him to know he was welcome back any time. I think he knew that in his heart but just couldn't round that last turn for home.
I have no guilt... which may sound callous, but - my selfish streak steps in and answers when I say what if. What if I spent a lot of effort chasing after this person in these years... what of my life, my sobriety, my serenity? Nothing happens in God's world by mistake. My friend was called home, it was not my decision... nor his. It looks like it was an ugly way to go, from our perspective on the earthly side of the fence. But if I believe in God, then I have to believe in the wisdom, the power, and yes - the beauty - of His plan.
I guess it was His plan for me to stray off the subject....
Barisax, I am just wondering if you ever looked really looked closely at Bill's Story in the beginning of the book, you say he only had step 12 to work with, take another look:
Bill's Story -- Chapter 1
... "Like myself ,he had admitted complete defeat " ?? [though he was drinking then] further down same page "There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute ;and this was none at all". WAS this him admitting being powerless over alcohol ? And then in hospital taking 2nd.'half' re page 13 [ 10 lines down ]..."I admitted for the first time that of myself i was nothing ; that without him i was lost " [ that his life had become unmanageable ] ?? [step one]
Re page 12 [ + halfway down ] "It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater than myself " =step 2??
Page13....[ 7 lines down.] " I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction" = step 3 ??
Page 13...[ 10 lines down ] "I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away,root and branch." =steps 4+ first two thirds of 5 +6&7 ????
Page 13...[ "my schoolmate visited me, and i fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies.".....= final third of 5 ??
Page 13 ...following on from above...ending in the word "ability" ...= 8 & 9 ??
Page 13 [ Next paragraph ] " I was to sit quietly when in doubt,"
= 2nd.part of 11 ?
" asking only for direction and strength to meet my problems as He would have me " etc....= 1st. part of 11 ?
Page 14 "I felt lifted " etc. to the second "through" = 1st.part of 12 ?
Page 14 [ second last paragraph ] "While" etc. to " them" = 2nd. part ?
AND Finally [below above ] "My friend" etc. to "affairs " = 3rd. part ?
Page 13-14 , At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens.
Page 13-14 My friend promised when these things were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator; that I would have the elements of a way of living which answered all my problems. Belief in the power of God, plusenoughwillingness, honesty and humilityto establishandmaintain the new order of things, were the essential requirements. (Step 3) There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care AND direction. (second half of Step 1) I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. (Step 4 & 5 ) I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing (Step 6) to have my new-found Friend take them away (Step 7) , root and branch. I have not had a drink since.
(Step 5) My schoolmate visited me, and I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies. (Step 4) We made a list of people I had hurt or toward whom I felt resentment. (Step 8 ) I expressed my entire willingness to approach these individuals, admitting my wrong. Never was I to be critical of them. (Step 9) I was to right all such matters to the utmost of my ability.
(Step 10, 11) I was to test my thinking by the new God-consciousness within. (Step 10) Common sense would thus become uncommon sense. (Step 11) I was to sit quietly when in doubt, asking only for direction and strength to meet my problems as He would have me. Never was I to pray for myself, except as my requests bore on my usefulness to others. Then only might I expect to receive. But that would be in great measure.
(Step 10) My friend promised when these things were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator; (Steps 4-9, 10 & 11) that I would have the elements of a way of living which answered all my problems. Belief in the power of God, plus enough willingness, honesty and humility to establish AND (Step 10-12) MAINTAIN THE NEW ORDER OF THINGS , were the essential requirements.
Page 14 Simple, but not easy; a price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness. I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all. These were revolutionary and drastic proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, the effect was electric.
There was a sense of victory, followed by such a peace and serenity as I had never known. There was utter confidence. I felt lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden and profound.
For a moment I was alarmed, and called my friend, the doctor, to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked.
Finally he shook his head saying, Something has happened to you I dont understand. But you had better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you were. The good doctor now sees many men who have such experiences. He knows that they are real.
(Step 12) While I lay in the hospital the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They in turn might work with others.
(Step 12) My friend had emphasized the absolute necessity of demonstrating these principles in all my affairs. Particularly was it imperative to work with others as he had worked with me. Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for the alcoholic! (Steps 10-12) For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his .....
Sorry it was so scattered, it's been a long time, but when I have gone over Bill's story with sponsors/sponsees we look for the 12 steps, they are all there
and Dr Bob actually started with step 9 on his first day of sobriety lol (I am laughing because that always throws a wrench in the tea party when someone is a stickler about the steps haha)
-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 12th of May 2010 02:59:37 AM
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Naturally, I agree with rob and barisax. I could have done a real crappy 4th step within a few months but what would have been the point? It would have been a self abasing piece of dookie. In doing it at a year, I had some perspective...I had cleaned up some serious wreckage and finally could take an honest look at me without the distractions and without overdramatizing. I also spent a year in therapy almost before doing it as well so none of it was a surprise... A person can say they did their steps and have like 3 months sobriety, but I will know they don't know what the hell they are talking about simply because they haven't lived sober long enough and haven't faced a lot of things that only time sober can teach us.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Naturally, I agree with rob and barisax. I could have done a real crappy 4th step within a few months but what would have been the point? It would have been a self abasing piece of dookie.
"Self abasing piece of dookie". What a great description of my first attempt at a 4th step! Some things about AA I took to like a fish to water, if not for the right reasons. I have always been good at beating myself up, and here was a special step in the program dedicated to just that thing. Of course I didn't read the instructions, and I wrote a many-page essay blasting myself and everyone I ever had a resentment against. I think it included the all-encompassing, politically neutral "everything and everyone" on my resentment list. Which is of course exactly they opposite of why we do it. If I don't name names, and I don't name causes, and in essence if I don't fill in columns 2, 3, and 4, I'm not getting anywhere. And if I state up front that the task is too big (everything and everyone) why even start?
No, in the end I had to follow the silly instructions in the book and write down my four columns. It seemed so pointless to someone whose problems were so big. Why it took me so long to apply my own professional philosophy to my own recovery, I don't know. In my line of work, I've frequently been greeted with panicking people claiming "everything is all screwed up!" and my first response is to sit down and say ok, let's start somewhere. Not with "everything" but with "one thing". Oh, that one thing... ok - I can fix that. Now what's thing #2. Ok, that just got fixed along with thing #1. Thing #3... hmm, is that really a problem? Nope, not really. Let's see... "everything" is now "three". I do that *daily* in my job, yet when it came to doing my 4th step, everything overwhelmed me. And I had the same disbelief that my co-workers and customers have.... why look at one thing, when everything is a mess?
Pride and ego get in the way of a simple solution. If I take the simple solution, then I'm admitting I blew my problems out of proportion. It's embarrassing. If I stubbornly cling to the notion that my problems are unique, overwhelming, and insurmountable, I'll show you... I'll die of these problems just to prove how bad they are.
I guess I've learned to love being embarrassed. I find more relief in the simple, all too obvious solution, than in the pride of staying in the problem. And I do that in my work as well. I am a problem solver by trade, and I do not want problems hidden from me - I welcome them. I'm just beginning to get how to do it for myself.
but I will know they don't know what the hell they are talking about simply because they haven't lived sober long enough and haven't faced a lot of things that only time sober can teach us.
Mark
Absolutely
well said. I totally agree
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
I choose to do it now. I have just over 30 days. But I have been sober for several years, several times. I have sponsored other women. I did not go back out there for very long, by the Grace of God. (2 weekends.) What happened to me is a lesson in complacency. Most of my childhood resentments are gone, through years of Step work and therapy. I am no longer angry at my dad, mom (RIP), childhood best rfiend, first boyfriend, the cops, Republicans, Democrats, etc.....
Most of my resentments are "newer". They have arisen out of my complacency and failure to inventory and get THROUGH some feelings and character defects in stead of going around them.
I don't think, if I were sponsoring, that I would "push" (as some have put it) a brand new wet-behind-the-ears person to work Steps 4 & 5 right away either. If they wanted to though, I certainly wouldn't stop them.
I have to become accountable to my Higher Power once again. My spiritual awakening will come as a greater freedom from the bondage of self. My spiritual awakening will come from a greater desire to help others, which was lacking before, in the past year of complacency. I am basically letting the Steps reveal what I need to empty myself of at this time, and what I need to fill it with.
Thanks, all, for your comments. I have put it down for a day. But I need to pick back up now (on Step 4), as my grandmother died last night, revealing a resentment I have against her children, all middle class or very well-to-do, who, out of 10 surviving children, left her in a nursing home for 6 years. It is a toughy, and I will be faced with these people over the weekend at the services. I absolutely am certain that it is necessary to see what I can contribute ot the healing there, and leave my resentments on paper, until I can do the rest fo the necessary steps to have those removed, in time.
Toodles, off to write a little more tonight.
With love, Joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
I could have done a real crappy 4th step within a few months but what would have been the point?
Mark, I am wondering if you have ever heard of Ebby Thatcher? a guy named Bill W?
Ebby Thatcher had 2 months when he 12 stepped Bill Wilson, Bill did the steps in the hospital and upon his release
My musing was interrupted by the telephone. The cheery voice of an old school friend asked if he might come over. He was sober. It was years since I could remember his coming to New York in that condition. I was amazed. Rumor had it that he had been committed for alcoholic insanity. I wondered how he had escaped. Of course he would have dinner, and then I could drink openly with him. Unmindful of his welfare, I thought only of recapturing the spirit of other days. There was that time we had chartered an airplane to complete a jag! His coming was an oasis in this dreary desert of futility. The very thing an oasis! Drinkers are like that.
The door opened and he stood there, fresh-skinned and glowing. There was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different. What had happened?
I pushed a drink across the table. He refused it. Disappointed but curious, I wondered what had got into the fellow. He wasn't himself.
"Come, what's all this about? I queried. He looked straight at me. Simply, but smilingly, he said, "I've got religion."
I was aghast. So that was it last summer an alcoholic crackpot; now, I suspected, a little cracked about religion. He had that starry-eyed look. Yes, the old boy was on fire all right. But bless his heart, let him rant! Besides, my gin would last longer than his preaching.
But he did no ranting. In a matter of fact way he told how two men had appeared in court, persuading the judge to suspend his commitment. They had told of a simple religious idea and a practical program of action. That was two months ago and the result was self-evident. It worked!
He had come to pass his experience along to me if I cared to have it. I was shocked, but interested. Certainly I was interested. I had to be, for I was hopeless.
My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, " Why don't you choose your own conception of God? " That statement hit me hard. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last.
It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater than myself. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could start from that point. Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would!
At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens.
There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then I understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessl y faced my sins and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch. I have not had a drink since.
My schoolmate visited me, and I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies. We made a list of people I had hurt or toward whom I felt resentment. I expressed my entire willingness to approach these individuals, admitting my wrong. Never was I to be critical of them. I was to right all such matters to the utmost of my ability.
I was to test my thinking by the new God-consciousness within. Common sense would thus become uncommon sense. I was to sit quietly when in doubt, asking only for direction and strength to meet my problems as He would have me. Never was I to pray for mys elf, except as my requests bore on my usefulness to others. Then only might I expect to receive. But that would be in great measure.
My friend promised when these things were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator; that I would have the elements of a way of living which answered all my problems. Belief in the power of God, plus enough willingness, honesty and humil ity to establish and maintain the new order of things, were the essential requirements. Simple, but not easy; a price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness. I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all. These were revolutionary and drastic proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, the effect was electric. There was a sense of victory, followed by such a peace and ser enity as I had never know. There was utter confidence. I felt lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden and profound. For a moment I was al armed, and called my friend, the doctor, to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked. Finally he shook his head saying, "Something has happened to you I don't understand. But you had better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you were." The good doctor now sees many men who have such experiences. He knows that they are real. While I lay in the hospital the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely giv en me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They in turn might work with others. My friend had emphasized the absolute necessity of demonstrating these principles in all my affairs. Particularly was it imperative to work with others as he had worked wit h me. Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for the alcoholic! For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low sp ots ahead. If he did not work, he would surely drink again, and if he drank, he would surely die. Then faith would be dead indeed. With us it is just like that.
My wife and I abandoned ourselves with enthusiasm to the idea of helping other alcoholics to a solution of their problems. It was fortunate, for my old business associates remained skeptical for a year and a half, during which I found little work. I was not too well at the time, and was plagued by waves of self-pity and resentment. This sometimes nearly drove me back to drink, but I soon found that when all other measure failed, work with another alcoholic would save the day. Many times I have gone to my old hospital in despair. On talking to a man there, I would be amazingly lifted up and set on my feet. It is a design for living that works in rough going.
That's why real alcoholics have to work the steps immediately, because if they do so thoroughly and fearlessly, it works, if Ebby would have waited a year we would HAVE no AA, if Bill would have waited a year, ditto
We work the steps in order to get better, not wait to get better then work the steps, or no one would ever have worked the steps and there would be no AA meetings for people to come sit in and whine about their day and use as their personal group therapy bitch sessions until they finally get off their ass and work the steps.
Rob and Barisax were talking about their experience with sponsees, not having worked the steps I don't see how you could agree with them since I don't see how you could have taken sponsees through the steps without having done them yourself.
I was told no one was interested in my opinion about things I had no experience with, and that's why we share our experience, strength and hope not opinion
I have seen many alcoholics come in, work the steps, catch fire, and start sponsoring at 6 months that are still sober 20 years later, I have seen many others bounce along the bottom and do the "AA Waltz" 123 slip 123 slip and wonder why "the program" doesn't work for them and wonder why their life doesn't change and why they can't seem to stop drinking, and who call meeting attendance "working a strong program". They get a year or 2, go back out, come back, tell everyone how much they learned, how it's going to be different this time, and here's how, after a couple of years they are off to the races again, I have watched guys do this for decades, and they all have a story, and make lots of promises, but never a commitment.
So stating that someone can't know what they are talking with only 3 months of sobriety when they have worked the steps is your opinion about an experience you have never had, hence you have no idea what you are talking about, If Bill or Dr Bob would have taken that stance, that program you so religiously attend that saved your life wouldn't exist.
You are right about one thing though, people talking beyond their experience who quite frankly, how did you phrase it?
I will know they don't know what the hell they are talking about simply because they haven't lived sober long enough and haven't faced a lot of things that only time sober can teach us.
so if this is true with you looking at someone with 3 months from your lofty perch of a year of attending meetings and not having completed the steps, doesn't it stand to reason that say, let's see, 3 months times 4 is one year, so say someone with 4 years looks at you the same way, then the person with 16 years looks the guy with 4 years the same way?
I am by no means invalidating your experience, which is of a year of meeting attendance, just questioning your opinions on things of which you know nothing about, such as doing the steps and taking sponsees through the steps.
So find me in a couple of years, we will re-visit this conversation, it should be fun.
-- Edited by AGO on Friday 14th of May 2010 04:19:37 AM
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Back to the initial discussion..............................................................................................
I am putting this on hold, as with my move-out and grandma's funeral this weekend, I need some time to feel these emotions and get some clarity before I "dive back in". If I don't drink and work steps 1,2, & 3 right now it will carry me through.
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
