How can I believe in a Higher Power?

Larry_H · MIP Old Timer

How can I believe in a Higher Power?

gonee · MIP Old Timer

Some of us don't like Step Two because we think it asks us to believe in somebody else's idea of God. It doesn't. It doesn't even ask us to believe in our own idea of God. The most important thing is to find a Higher Power not necessarily the Highest Power to help us stay sober, one that can teach us to succeed in sobriety and one that we trust.

I like the way step2 is presented. It speaks of a higher power not necessarily the highest power.
I have never heard it said like that before. It makes the step so much easier to understand and give to the newcomer. It also dispenses with any theological arguments one might present. This is the essence of step2, in that it allows every body to enter. No qualification.

mikef · MIP Old Timer

We came to believe"that" a power ,,not who or what this power is but what this power can do for us. The group,spiritual principles ,good orderly direction ,the beauty of this step is its your own concept of God as long as its loving,caring and more powerful than you.We don't have to have any understanding at all to use this power.Its a process and not an event that may change over time.For me ,my God Is the same as IT always was from the time I was a child, only my relationship has changed thru the years. As long as it can restore me to sanity."'RESTORATION" changing to a point where alcoholism and its accompanying insanity are not contorlling my life ....We agnostics asks(p47)'Do I now believe, or am even willing to believe, that there is a Power GREATER THAN MYSELF?As soon as we can say yes or even be willing to believe we are well on our way!A wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built..!! love that... smile

...

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Mahalo Mikef...Short and simple and about the way it was presented and served
up to me. Until it came at me that way my analytical self was chewing on a bone
that had no meat. Thanks again. smile

slugcat · Senior Member

thank you for this.
i am having a very hard time beleiving in a kind caring God. Im sober some years, steps been through (not saying that to be smart its just my background i know i can redo steps and i am thinking of it) and i try do the program to my best, and thought i was preety ok beleiving in an HP until the last few years i guess ive been doubting more and more. ive not been sharing about it very much it seems a very negative thing to talk about in meetigs and well ive told my sponsor but other stuff happens and gets in the way and ive not really been addressing it.

very recently some bad things happen and i actually find myself hating god, whoever designed this life on earth i dont like, and i am thinking god is a creepy wierd thing to make this fked up world with all the pain and shit.
people getting sober then dying not long afer, bad bad things happening, all the horrible crap people do to otherpeople and animals, animals i hate how humans hurt and kill other species so much, i hate god and i hate most other people! I hate how peoples health can go in an instant and its all out of control. i realyl hate it all.

so i needed to read wha the above poster said
The most important thing is to find a Higher Power not necessarily the Highest Power to help us stay sober, one that can teach us to succeed in sobriety and one that we trust.

right now thats what i needed to here so much. that my HP does not have to be THE HP.
Because i beleive in life after death ive seen spirits and stuff i know im not going to just die when im dead, i beleive in angels etc. but HP and the meaning of life well i do not get at all and when i feel like this i actually think god whoever that is must be pretty sadistic . Well i guess humans have free will and hurt each other, the planet and animals from choice, but health problems, do we really choose those? |Do we decide what to suffer from before we arrive on this planet? If we have free will here and now, then we would also have it before we arrived. But i still hate how this world works and how life is. I dont like it.

So for my HP is my spirit guides because i cannto trust God right now.

My sponsor thinks i need to do some work around step 3. I know i do. thing is i USED to really beleive in God so much, i wasnt worried about the God word when I came into the rooms. Now i am just upset.

I used to beleive in God i just cant right now. good thing i dont have to beleive in it to stay sober and safe.
For now my HP is meetings and others wisdom in the rooms. Its also my spirit guides and guardian angels. i feel bad saying this, its very negative and even as i type it i feel mean to say bad things about God. But i really dont like this world right now. i hate it.
sponsor says acceptance! Yeh well thats another long post also eh! I dont have to like something to accept it.

-- Edited by slugcat on Thursday 22nd of April 2010 06:22:23 PM

-- Edited by slugcat on Thursday 22nd of April 2010 06:24:23 PM

-- Edited by slugcat on Thursday 22nd of April 2010 06:27:01 PM

Senior Member

Practicing the program of AA isn't a guarantee of smooth sailing. Everybody has problems to deal with, whether they're a drunk or not. I think of the 12 Steps as a ship that's carried me through calm waters and turbulent - where's the sense in bailing ship when the weather gets rough? You'll just drown.

Everybody has had to deal with traumatic circumstances. I lost my property, and my car. I lost my entire career and had to rebuild from scratch. What I didn't lose was my skill, experience, and determination. AA gave me the wherewithal to use those tools to rebuild. Without AA I'd be drunk, and probably dead.

And what's the point of blaming God? This is the human experience: it's fraught with perils and tragedies. Nobody is immune. If your house is torn down by a tornado, do you blame the tools with which you built it? Of course not. You get busy and rebuild.

I know this sounds blunt, but self-pity is worse than useless, and a better day is always near. Many an astute businessman has failed and gone on to rebuild and achieve even greater success. And many marriages have fallen apart, after which both people have gone on to find better, more sympathetic partners.

But stop working the program and you've started down the slippery slope to the first drink, and death.

-- Edited by Q on Sunday 7th of July 2013 12:17:51 PM

-- Edited by Q on Sunday 7th of July 2013 12:19:08 PM

Travel an · Member

I hear you slugcat - I came across this post searching for how to find a higher power, I notice that no-one responded to your post. I find this too in AA, when I have difficulty with finding a higher power and ask for help everyone evades the issue. They say oh I can't help there you have to find your own concept of a higher power. Seeing as this is the cornerstone and foundation of recovery everybody is so evasive. I hear the pain in your post and no one responds to help..... I find this in AA. Presently I find the idea that there is a higher power looking out for me hard to believe - my sponsor said to me does your god give people cancer - yes is my answer she said you need to find a loving god. I just can't get my head around the idea of making one up - that's such BS - okay so I make one up and start praying to it or him - what then nothing changes - I've just made it up and am now relying On a Fictitious entity.

I get what you are saying. I'm sober 13 years now and my life is filled with anxiety and stress presently my business is about to go bust, my wife who won't work is barely speaking to me cause I asked her to contribute to bills, my health is suffering badly cause of stress, I'm about to go bankrupt and loose my house- a drink seems like a good idea now cause my HP doesn't give a shit.....And the one i made up doesnt really exist of course so is doing nothing to help. i don't want t leave my marriage cause I've a beautiful young daughter who will be so hurt if i do, but my life is falling apart - I'm doing everything AA is telling me - working with others, cleaning house and trusting in god.... Yet all is a mess.

WTF....I just don't know what to do or how to make decisions anymore. What I'd really like - to go on social welfare, live in a shed on my own and just meditate, play drums and go to meetings - but see that's not a sane response or thought - but all the thoughts and inspirations I do have don't seem to work. I am totally totally lost . What meters anymore I don't know. I came to aa cause my life was falling apart - now 13 years in its falling apart again and I've done everything I was told. So what's the point of it all. Fucked if do fucked if I don't.

I can't find a meaning to it all anymore.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hey Travel an, ... don't think I ever welcomed you to MIP last year when you started here, so welcome ... glad you're here ...

Higher power, huh? ... yeah, I had some problems here too ... but I had to stop and consider the physics involved in how the 'universe' works and came to believe that the whole universe exists and is so delicately in balance that there must be an unseen 'force' at work here ... I don't believe it all just came together by 'chance' ... also, I know of some impossible outcomes to situations that came about through prayer that are just too incredible to not believe that there isn't some kind of 'higher power' at work here ... It finally came to me that 'God', was indeed the answer to all the questions I had, and that through His Spirit, I was able to find faith in His power ...

All it took was just a little bit of faith ... I didn't believe it to start with, but when I did what my sponsor said, that tiny bit of faith started to grow like a seed in good soil getting plenty of water and sunshine ...

When my sponsor told me one day to go home and pray and thank God for today, I said I wasn't going to do it, cause I didn't 'believe' and I wasn't going to be a hypocrite ... he said you mean to tell me you don't believe God hears you when you pray? ... I said that's right and I'm not going to do it ... he said that's not the point ... the point is it's the 'action' you're taking that you don't know your taking that's going to cause all these things to happen that you never knew was going to happen, and once you take this action that you don't know you're taking and all these thing happen that you had no idea was going to happen, once all that happens, what you think needs to happen, will never need to happen ...

And he said, furthermore, God is not going to depend upon you for your relationship with Him, He'll take of that all by Himself ... So ... I did as my sponsor said, and low and behold, things started to improve, the better things got, the more I prayed ... sh!t happened, I prayed about it ... and things got better again ... One of many examples I could provide, is that one of our AA group members had a heart attack, went into a coma, vital signs declined over a period of a week and the doctors called the family in and said that there was no coming back for him at this point ... they said to go ahead and make plans for his funeral and burial ... Our group got together (we're 'spiritual' NOT even close to anything religious) but we got together and prayed for our brother in AA, and we prayed often for the next few days ... I'm here to tell you, that was 5 years ago, our brother not only recovered but has been coming to meetings ever since before he got out of the wheelchair ... the doctors said they were at a loss to explain, they said his body simply reversed the downhill plunge (past the point of recovery they said), and inexplicably started getting better ... funeral arrangements had already been made ...

Q made a statement about the movie 'Star Wars' the other day that seems appropriate here ... the scene is where Luke is trying to raise the sunken starship out of a swamp bog ... he almost gets it out, but cannot ... Yoda, in the background telling him to draw on the power of 'The Force' ... Luke gave up thinking it impossible ... Yoda goes over to the edge and calling on the 'Force' was able to lift the starship out of the bog to dry land ... Luke said "I don't believe it" ... Yoda says, "Yes, that is precisely why you fail" ...

For me, there is too much evidence to see, once I open my eyes, to not believe in God ... and all it took was the barest tiny amount of faith ...

Today, I wouldn't even consider going through the day without prayer to God in both gratitude and in requesting His will be done ... I turned my back on Him once ... and I pray for strength to never let that happen again ...

Love ya man and God Bless,
Pappy

Travel an · Member

Hi pappy, thanks for that I needed it man. Well I still haven't had a drink today and I think those words from a man named pappy will help me stay sober today. I still think my wife is an asshole, I'm still fucked career wise, I'm still doomed financially - so if there is a time for god to show himself then its now, cause I'm all out of ideas of how to proceed with my life. I know that 'I' can't do or decide anything cause I have a broken mind but I will pray, I will pray......

Earlier today's thought that I was born... I didn't do that - something put me together and brought me into the world. I just find it hard to believe that it whatever it is hears my prayers and can work for me.....

Also maybe I should review what I want out of life. One way of looking at it is that I just need to find a new source of income, a new job or something. Thats not such a huge mountain. I'm not so material if I could only find a way to pay my mortgage without killing myself through anxiety, resentment or fear in the process. I know faith is the antidote for fear but when the blows from life stack up one after the other it's hard to keep faith.

Thanks for your words pappy. Thank you for taking the bull by the horns and daring a obviously angry rant.

Tomorrow is a new day. I'm gonna take stock of my own shortcomings and see can i afford my wife the leniency I'd give a sick man - just like it says in the book. I'm also gonna see where I can think of and help others tomorrow and get this sick mind off my sick self.

Even if it's not working between my wife and i anymore I can still be kind and nice.....

Thanks pappy

Travel an · Member

Thanks also to you Q - you're right - self pity - victim....

I needed to hear that too. Thanks

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Travel an wrote:

Also maybe I should review what I want out of life. One way of looking at it is that I just need to find a new source of income, a new job or something. Thats not such a huge mountain. I'm not so material if I could only find a way to pay my mortgage without killing myself through anxiety, resentment or fear in the process. I know faith is the antidote for fear but when the blows from life stack up one after the other it's hard to keep faith.

Tomorrow is a new day. I'm gonna take stock of my own shortcomings and see can i afford my wife the leniency I'd give a sick man - just like it says in the book. I'm also gonna see where I can think of and help others tomorrow and get this sick mind off my sick self.

Hey again Travel an, ...

Congrats on 13 years sober ... and from your sharing, I'd say your are experiencing what we commonly refer to as a 'dry drunk' ... we come to AA and learn of a spiritual connection that was missing from our lives, to change the 'way we think' and to do so without drinking ... for you, this hasn't worked, oh, you're not drinking, but the promises haven't come true for you ... and not only does it appear that something is missing, you have all but admitted you know what it is ... you have brought your own solution to the table here ... you lack the acknowledgement of 'a power greater than yourself' ... to whom you should be talking to (praying) on a daily basis ...

You stated that maybe you should 'review what it is you want out of life' ... I say you should 'change your thinking' and 'review what it is you can give to life' ... It states in the 'Drs. Opinion', in the AA BB, that unless a person can experience an 'entire psychic change', there is little hope of his recovery ... You said 'Tomorrow is a new day' ... yes, and it is a great time to start changing the negative attitude you seem cursed with with a new attitude that allows you to think, WHAT IF ... 'What if' there is this all powerful entity that you've just somehow not recognized ... I suggest, like I do, to say your prayers while on bended knee ... to show reverence to God, and to ask to be relieved of the power of 'self' and to get help believing in something other than a huge void ... Do this every nite ...

One last thing I would like to share, is that I could not find progress spiritually until I read a non-AA book called 'The Shack', by William P. Young ... an unlikely source for my complete and total change spiritually ... after that, I found AA to be the answer to all my life's problems and it changed my attitude from being totally negative, to living daily in a positive, constructive way ... and that led to my 'peace and serenity' and the enjoyment life offers rather than simply 'enduring life' ... of which I have a little experience, I'm 60 ...

Love you man and God Bless,

Pappy

Travel an · Member

Wow thanks pappy....great advice and you're right - I've been spending my life looking at what I can get out of it - not what I can give....wow it's a big turn around - I see what you mean by an entire psychic change.

I have had a very wobbly relationship with higher power over the years. Recently I got a new sponsor and redid the steps and was building my faith again - but last week something happened that upset me so much it collapsed my faith. I am seeing it from the perspective that it wasn't for me and there is another path but its hard to believe that the new path will be a path of peaceful living. So until last week my faith was pretty strong. Then it all collapsed. So now I am facing bankruptcy, loss of my home, family and my business is also folding - all at the same time - so maybe now is the time to start looking at what I can give, if I loose everything then what's the point of worrying about it I guess....it's just hard to be thinking of helping everyone else whe I'm so desperately trying to hold it all together at home....

So im gonna pray and meditate to be shown gods will then. Seeing as he's tearing my life apart or rather not helping as my life is being torn apart maybe I should give him a chance again. You never know maybe in a few years ill be saying that was the best thing that ever happened me. I can't see that now but stranger things have happened....

Through this I have seen that I'm a self pity'er I also do play the poor me and victim in my head. So that being highlighted out of this is a gift.

So I guess it's about responding not reacting. So how am I gonna respond now to this. I'm gonna take your advice pappy and pray and meditate and try and see what I can give to life instead of get. I'm gonna pray and meditate around asking god to show me his will for me. And see what happens.

How can you differentiate between gods will and your own will...

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Travel an wrote:

How can you differentiate between gods will and your own will...

I find if I just follow the directions on these three pages everyday.....It's really not that complicated. It works...It really does.

http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_86.htm

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Travel an wrote:

So im gonna pray and meditate to be shown gods will then. Seeing as he's tearing my life apart or rather not helping as my life is being torn apart maybe I should give him a chance again. You never know maybe in a few years ill be saying that was the best thing that ever happened me. I can't see that now but stranger things have happened....

I'm gonna take your advice pappy and pray and meditate and try and see what I can give to life instead of get. I'm gonna pray and meditate around asking god to show me his will for me. And see what happens.

How can you differentiate between gods will and your own will...

Hi Travel an, ...

From the beginning of man's time here on earth, God has given us 'free will' to pick and choose our own path ... He allows us to believe in Him or not, to follow His will for us or do as we wish ... This is well documented from the first humans to walk this great earth ... It is also obvious to me that we are all tested, on a regular basis, as to our 'faith' in Him to provide us what we need ... Clear to me now, is that I, have pursued a life of 'material' and or 'physical' things to make me happy ... I have spent my life in pursuit of stuff and of sexual satisfactions that were pleasing to me, with little or no regard to others ... my life has been me, me, me, ... ... ... I want what I want ... to heck with everyone else ...

In this latter stage of my life, I have come to see, finally, that I get what i need or want when I help enough other people get what they want ... and it turns out that I have everything I can possibly want when I put 'love' first ... this may sound corny, but it's true ... my whole mindset (psyche) has changed ... wealth for me now is measured by the true friends I have and by the 'love' I feel from God when I help others ... there is no greater feeling and satisfaction than knowing you have been a help to others ... period!

Okay, here's one problem ... when I was going through life on my 'train', being who I thought I wanted to be, I found that I wasn't going in the direction I learned God wanted me to go in ... I found that 'my train' kept stopping in places that made me miserable and very unhappy ... and I have also learned that 'my train' was traveling with such 'momentum', that it would take time and patience for me to slow it down enough to turn it around and transfer it to the 'right track' (path in life) that I now found myself wanting to be on ... AA was my point of transfer ... AA identified the different destinations available for me to 'reset' my life journey ... AA brought to my realization, THE path God preferred I choose ... and in learning to seek His will for me rather than pursuing my own will, I now feel I am on the right path ... my eyes have been opened to the physical signs, and through the testimony of others here and elsewhere, of the true nature of God's will for me for my short remaining time here on earth ...

The book I mentioned before was key to opening my mind, to not only the possibilities in which God was trying to reveal Himself to me, but to the undeniable fact, that God was trying to reach out to me ... I just had to wake up, open the parachute on my back and stop the 'free-fall' in my life that I was going through ... it made perfect sense now ... the awakening process I experienced was like being kicked in the 'nads ... BAM, it all made perfect sense ... it all came together with the help of others giving freely to me of what they had ...

Travel an, I pray this all makes some sort of sense to you and if it doesn't ... keep asking questions ... that's the only way we can find the truth ... (seek and ye shall find) ...

Love ya and God Bless,

Pappy

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Good stuff Pappy....As usual.

Travel an · Member

Hi pappy - yes it does make sense. It's sometimes hard to get or to see. The road is narrowing for me, I'm seeing that there are certain things I am just gonna have to let go of. It's bloody hard though. I guess I am a lot more attached to material things than I realised - or more to the point - than I would admit to myself. I'm 13 years sober - I work the programme, I work with others, I've been trusting in god and I have been cleaning house. I suppose my belief was that god would look after me and give me what I need. I think the problem here is the difference between my idea of being looked after and gods idea do being looked after, my idea of my needs being met and gods idea of my needs being met. I assumed getting sober would mean I would be in a better place 'life wise' - I got sober so I wouldn't loose my job, my family, my home, my life.....now that all this is falling apart I naturally think god is failing me that he's not looking after me. I am questioning now was I better off when drinking - see these are the things I got sober to protect.

Thanks for your words pappy I get it. I have to let go. It's a step 3 thing....I have to turn my life and will over to the care of god, step 11 praying only for his will for us and the power to carry that out. So I have to accept that then this is gods will....I am finding it hard though.....to accept that gods will for me is this....

Question now is why did get sober ? Why bother, why all the pain of getting sober? I don't have that answer yet. The things I feared most are happening I do wonder what now was the point of sobering up....??????

I suppose that I have helped others stay sober - I have given to others and am doing so now....there's a reason to be sober I suppose. There's a good reason to stay sober. I have a daughter - it's worth staying sober so I can give to her. My wife is a year sober (not going to meetings) I can help her - and in fact be more compassionate and give her more leeway. Maybe if I can see what I can give - how I can help the world maybe there's a reason to be sober.

It's a place to start anyway.... This really is gonna be a huge leap of faith for me....

I'm trusting you on this pappy - you and all the others in our programme that have gone before me that say this is the way.

I was at a funeral today in a Catholic Church and there were the stations of the cross on the wall and the one my eye landed on first was the tenth station - one that's said Jesus is stripped of his garments. Funny I thought it was a good metaphor for where I'm at now - I feel like I'm being stripped of my garments. Somehow it gave me consolation. I began to think that this is only small fry - in 50 years time ill be dead - not here and my stuff won't matter. I felt that all that matters really is how we affect others while we're here. It was fleeting but I felt it.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hi Travel an, ...

Sounds like you may have been staying sober for the wrong reasons ... just so you would not lose all your stuff and your family seems a good enough reason in the beginning, but we find that there is a 'greater purpose' for our lives when we put the principles of the AA program into practice ... and as for why God is allowing all this trouble in your life, I suspect you had already 'set the stage' for all this to come about ... and no matter if you were sober or not, I suspect much of this was going to happen anyway ...

And there's not a single problem in your life today, that a drink or a drug wouldn't make tens times worse ... don't believe me??? ... try it and you'll find out ... I pray you don't ... you seem to have a pretty intelligent head on your shoulders, use it ... it also sounds like you've been on what is sometimes referred to as a 'dry drunk' ... meaning that you haven't taken a drink, but you haven't applied the principles in 'all your life's affairs' either ... when we work the program all the promises in the AA BB come true, guaranteed ... if they don't, then there's something lacking on our part ...

I hope others will share the promises that came true for them ... I must leave this minute or be late for my meeting ... talk more later ...

Love you and God Bless,
Pappy

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Holy Higher Power Bump! I was really hoping to see Larry was back.

Travel an · Member

Thanks pappy - wise words. I gotta take another hard look at myself- pretty confused about it all. I know I'm full of self pity and victim so I gotta work on that too. I think that's the biggest issue now - the poor me thing....