We have a thing called attraction not promotion in the Traditions, it was initially put in to apply at the level of press, radio and film, but, like the concept of anonymity, has come to mean a great deal more to us.

What that means to me, is I let my actions be my advertisement rather then my mouth.

What I have learned to do is simply state that if someone ever needs help with their drinking -problem- to let me know, when i initially got sober, I decided that quite a few of my friends, and no few of my family members were alcoholic and needed my help. They thought differently, and in short order I alienated a number of people.

If you are really convinced he has a drinking problem and needs help, the chapter entitled "Working with Others" is there to specifically answer those questions. I found a friendly approach and a simple offer to attend a meeting was sufficient, we walk a tightrope with friends and family members not to be branded evangelists.

I have taken a few people to meetings, other then that the old adage "you can lead a horse to water" comes to mind. Be careful not to show intolerance of drinking as an institution so you don't ruin a future chance to be helpful.

I have found my own life, lived sober is the best advertisement I could have.

Aloha Sid...If he will sit still a bit and listen to your Experiences with alcohol and
what you found out and are are now doing to allieviate the problem that might
also help.  If he feels you are in support of whatever is going on with him today
you may be a catalyst for him but have no expectations.  Alcoholism is certainly
very cunning, powerful and baffling disease.  My own brother has heard a bit of
my story and is aware that I am a member for a sober life.  He has also tried
the program a bit himself with a son but it apparently is not for them as far as
I am aware.  He has displayed anger at the fact that I am a member even tho
I do not talk program with him and I know why the anger is present. He is going
to have to walk thru the doors of AA again with or without anyone else if and when
we decides that a life of sobriety is what he wants.   This disease has taken the
lives of more family members than the program has taken members.   Just the
way it is.  I'm grateful.

In support.

When I first got sober, I wanted to share with everyone I thought had a problem because I thought it would be so cool if all my friends and family could find the solution, too. I even finally said to one of my sisters, "Hey, why don't you come and try it, too? Alcohol will kill you if you don't." Her response was, "Nah, it was good enough for Dad to die that way, so it's good enough for me, too." And she's made good on that. She's not dead yet, but she's working on it and getting closer.

One of my daughters has a problem. She's got hep C now, the A strain that seldom responds to any treatment. The doctor told her to quit drinking if she wanted to live and she knows how I got sober and have stayed sober successfully but she's still drinking, too.

One of my other sisters described to me once what happens when she goes without for a short time---seizures. I told her what I knew, this time without trying to get her to AA. She's still drinking.

I've seen many drinking buddies come to the program, mostly mandated by the courts. They didn't stay.

It just takes what it takes for everyone and sometimes they don't make it. In fact, they more often than not don't make it. But they have to hit their own bottom and they have to WANT it. That's the key. I didn't want to get quit drinking myself. I just wanted to be out of the hell I was in.

The very best thing you can do for your brother is work on your own sobriety and be the best example you can be of what good sobriety can do for you.

I came back to edit this, to add that you should never give up hope for your brother.  Just don't try to push it on him because that will only drive him away.  Just make your own sobriety your priority so much that it's the attraction he needs to maybe someday try the program himself.






-- Edited by Ellen E on Sunday 28th of March 2010 12:56:36 PM

Thanks for sharing your experience Ellen. The best advice appears to be to concentrate and focus on my own sobiriety. Which since I have only been at it a short time does make sense. I have hardly scratched the surface regarding the work I need to do to myself, I have plenty to worry about and focus on there at the moment.

You might want to place some literature where your friend will find it.  In my last days before coming to AA i would read everything I could get my hands on about Alcoholism.

But only if no one saw me reading it.

You might want to attend an Alanon meeting.   They have the answer to help you deal with family or friends with a drinking problem.

Larry,
----------------------------
"AA is not for people who need it, it's for people who want it."  

Alanon is a wonderful life changing program for the family and friends of alcoholics.

It was my experience tho that I needed to wait until I was sober long enough and well grounded in the 12 steps of AA before I began to start Alanon.

My Mom is a ppp ( prescription pill popper ) long time divorced from my Dad who drinks every day, but functions pretty well. My Son is a drunkie/junkie. My older brother is getting out a treatment center in another state tomorrow after a 28 day stay for script drug addiction that came after almost 20 yrs of being a dry drunk. And ... my younger brother has had nothing but trouble with booze for at least the last 20 yrs that I know of.
Younger brother stayed with me a couple years ago and I had to ask him to leave cuz of his drinking. It was very hard for me to do this, cuz I love him dearly ( as I do all my family ). But I was doing him absolutely no good by enabling him to continue the way he was.
I told him right then and there that he had a drinking problem and I suggested he get some help. He said he would think about it . To date .. and my knowledge he hasnt done anything but probably become more of a drunk and his life is becoming more unmanageable.

Do I say anything to any of these ppl that are my blood family ? Nope. they havent really asked for my help. As has been mentioned, I take care of me and be the best example I can be. And another very important thing I do for them is to pray for them.

I know how tuff it can be to be on the sidelines and watch our family members ruin their lives and I also know how tuff it would be for me if I drank over it .
Not gonna happen.
I'll keep praying and waiting for God to do His work

And another thing...The God thing...yep so often I forget that my HP is real, does
exist and does direct the whole play and at times without prior notice we get to be
the instrument of HP's will...regardless of the outcome. 

Years ago as a solid member in the Al-Anon Family Groups I once was touched by a
drunk (very) in a place no one knew I was at, at a time no one knew I was there and
with only one other person in the room that didn't know I was in recovery.  He called
the real estate office she secretaried for not knowing what he was doing.  I remember
her telling him that she could not understanding what he was saying and then looked
at me and said, "I think this is for you."  She hardly knew who I was. I took the phone
and then took the call in another office because he was absolutely tanked and I was
about to break my own anonymity in front of a person I didn't know.  Anyhow the guy
and I got down to the promises.  He promised not to drink anymore then if I also
promised to come talk with him.  I was had or just had myself (Al-Anoner).  I hung
up and called my friend who was the director of Central Office AA in the town I lived
in.  He gave me the AA pep talk...which ended with "What ever made you think that
only a drunk can 12step another drunk?".   Doors were closing on me and it looked
like I was going to have to follow thru on a promise.  I had one other out and that
was my Higher Power (I didn't contact my sponsor) and after that conversation I
found my way down to "Sin City" in the parking lot of this appartment building he
said he was at and then I was ringed off by more than a handful of dealers all dressed
up like they do on TV.  Boy was that real.  They asked me what I was doing there and
I told them.  All of them knew this guy and most of them agreed that "He" needed
help LOL and I was directed to the appartment.  His son and another drinking friend
were leaving before they killed the old man and they left the two of us alone.  It all
boiled down to that after he listened and thanked AA for sending the right person (LOL
again) he wanted me to take him to the liquor store to pick up a bottle before going
to a rehab.  I know the Big Book and I know what had been done at times in the past
I also knew what I wasn't gonna do.  I told him I'd be there for him in sobriety but
I would not support his disease.  We parted amicably and only God knows the rest
of that man's story.  He knows mine which also includes this event with a man who
has become a family member.  His mom, my wife had told him that I had 9 years
sobriety on the day before we met.  The night we met was the first time we had ever.
All he knew is that a man with 9 years sobriety was visiting.  When I got there he
was heading out the door with a friend to go drink and use.  I didn't know that and
neither did his mom.  As he headed for the door he told me, "Hey Jerry F, I hear you
haven't had a drinking in 9 years...how did you do that?"  I responded that "I realized
that there was no law that said I had to drink at all."  He turned around and said
"What?" and I repeated it and added "I once thought that I had to drink in order to be
real", or something like that.  He stopped going for the door and his friend asked him
to hurry up and come on.  He turned to his friend and said, "You go on.  I'm not going
out tonight, I want to talk more."   That happened to be the first night of his being
clean and sober.  He never drank or used again and now has over half a life in the
program.  He was seventeen when we met.

Now I believe this...When we get an opportunity to reach out we do so without condition
We do it because it was done for us and we know what happened and we are
grateful and amazed and we want to see the miracle passed on to others who we
were just like before.  We don't ever know the outcome for sure even while we have
come to understand there has never been a guarantee placed on our own recovery.

The disease is cunning, powerful and baffling but it the program and what it does
that amazes me to no end.  I keep coming back.  Miracles are real.

Thanks for letting me share that little bit of my journey.

It's broken my heart to see some of my family still suffering and to see some of them die from this disease. Brothers, sisters, cousins, friends, my father, my uncle----

I met my husband in AA and after 15 years together, he died of an overdose of heroin. He never drank in all that time, but periodically he'd relapse with opiates. Finally he hated himself so much for not being able to get and stay clean on a long-term basis that he just purposely went out with an OD on his original drug of choice in August of 2000. I loved him SO much! Getting through that one was probably hardest of all, but thanks to my sponsor and my other fellow AA members, I made it through that. A couple months later, my sponsor died---she was in the hospital waiting for her liver transplant because she had hepatitis C but a few days after they took her in there, she died, too. I've lost many friends in the AA program, some sober, some not.

By the grace of God and the AA program, I haven't had to drink over any of this. I don't know why my husband didn't get it and I did. But all I could do was work my own program, not his. Love him and not enable him. Concentrate on keeping up my own spiritual program. Same with everyone else close to me. I don't have to understand why. I don't have to be the one who leads them to sobriety. The only thing I have to do is see to it that my own spiritual condition is right and work my program to the best of my ability, doing the next right thing, each and every day.

I'll pray for you and your brother. I've found that it's often not those we're closest to that our Higher Power gives us to help. They're often supposed to be reached by someone else. But my Higher Power puts lots and lots of other alcoholics in my path that He wants me to reach out to and be there for so I keep busy with that and He helps me to stay sober that way.

You've reached out to your brother just by letting him know you've found the answer for yourself. :) I totally understand your love for your brother and your desire to help him. That's beautiful.

I think the reason our Higher Power often directs us elsewhere than our families is that in families where there are alcoholics, there are often deep-seated and complicated emotional interactions and memories that can get in the way of being any real help. We can be more effective further from home.

Never give up hope and prayers for your brother and maybe someday it will be you who ultimately brings him to the answer. But he has to want it more than anything he's ever wanted in his life. All you can do right now is just give him a demonstration of something he's going to want more than he wants to drink and then just don't push.  It's us reaching out to those who want it enough to reach out to us first that works best.


-- Edited by Ellen E on Tuesday 30th of March 2010 11:52:13 AM

Actually this seems fine:

I thought calling him back and saying I didn't think it was a good idea for me to go right now. I could point out the fact I recently quit drinking and didn't feel ready for the temptation. I could use my other brother and father as examples and how their issues got me thinking I should quit. Unfortuntately their examples didn't convince me to quit, only my hitting a low for myself did, but that's besides the point.

It's actually not besides the point at all, it's exactly the point

I agree with not "12 stepping" your brother, but what you CAN do is tell him about yourself and what you have learned, and the actions you have taken, and how much better you feel, don't tell him what he should do, but rather what you have done.

Then let it go, he will know who to ask if he wants help

http://www.healtalk.com/public/chapter-7.shtml

See your man alone, if possible. At first engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch or your drinking career up to the time you quit. But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished. If he is in a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you, being careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his.

When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match you mental inconsistencies with some of his own.

If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it. And be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him that possibly he can if he is not too alcoholic. But insist that if he is severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself.

Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany it. Keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Doctors are rightly loath to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution. You will soon have you friend admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of the alcoholic.

You have to do what you have to do for you Sid.

Yes, you could say that it wouldn't be a good idea for you to go because you recently stopped drinking, but don't expect that to do anything for him. I hope you do tell him that. His response may be "oh but you could do one more just for old times with your brother, couldn't you?" You could go back and forth like that for hours but it probably won't mean much to him other than that he might be happy for you because you were the one with the problem, not him.

I come from a big family. I have 10 brothers and sisters. One of my younger brothers came home one time to introduce everyone to his new wife. We were all ready to break out the booze and have a big celebration with him. But he said, "No, I don't drink anymore. Yadda yadda." Didn't do a thing for me or anyone else. We just felt kind of sorry for him that he had a problem and couldn't have any fun anymore. He's been sober longer than I have by quite a lot.

I had a friend who quit drinking, too. Our friends and I tried to get her to just come out and have one or two. No dice. Poor lady just couldn't handle it like we could and we had to get over not having her around anymore. I soon forgot her name, even.

You can only get sober for you. You can't get it for anyone else. You may be the only one in your family who ever gets it. So instead of plotting and planning ways you might be able to interest family members in it, just concentrate on working a program yourself and being of help to those who do want it. The time and energy you spend trying to figure out ways to interest your brothers could be spent better in finding someone in a meeting who really does want to stop but is too shy and closed up to reach out to somebody at first. You know the feeling. The one where you kind of hang around a little bit after a meeting to see if somebody will come over and say something? If they didn't you just went home and were miserable and lonely again? The people who really want it are in meetings. Invite them out for a coffee and share with them.

Oh--you asked about the brother who got in trouble and seems to now have his life in order. There are some people who can do that. Get drunk, get in trouble, see the error and quit drinking and never choose to overdo it again. Looks like he's found his answer and it's working for him. AA is for those who want it. Before you suffered a lot and found you couldn't get it all back together, did you want it?