What is the difference between intentionally trying to kill yourself vs. the indifference to your own life? My opinion is that suicidal people are intent on killing themselves; indifferent people do things that are life threatening, value their own lives but do not seem to take the consequences of their actions into account. Alcohol is a prime example. Me, for instance, will drink dangerous substances even though they have dangerous effects, yet I will never slit my wrists, take pills or try to hang myself. Any thoughts?
-- Edited by johnphilip19 on Sunday 27th of December 2009 12:46:07 AM
I think there is a difference. Maybe just recklessness. My boyfriend was down as having attempted his own life the times he died of taking a ridiculous amount of whatever though he didn't consider them himself as suicide attempts. I don't have any other opinion than to share that for the moment. Drinking excessively & smoking is officially considered as self harm these days too. I'm glad attitudes are changing. Maybe some lives will be saved be these more prudent observations. Maybe there's less shame in taking our lives in a less obvious way than outright suicide. Just some thoughts. Cheerful reading hey John :) Godbless, Danielle x
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i think if most ppl are honest...at one time or an other most have considered suicide for many different reasons...depression, illness, anxiety, life circumstances, hopelessness, ect.....even if it is a fleeting thought.....
i think there is something to ppl's subconscious stuff....the poor choices that can lead to a slow kinda suicide/death.....poor health habits, choices that put a person in some kinda risk, ect....
its like everything else....choices, actions. even not making a a decision is a decision with consequences good or bad.
its finally sinking in here, i cant make other ppl's choices. i cant make ppl see it my way. im not other ppl's "god". i have to talk it over with god how i see it, sometimes how i wish it could be. then i let god have em. ive found if i get out of the "god" job, free's god up to do his job for others. ive also found, when i put my nose too far into other ppl's business....it means im avoiding my own business....working on myself....
John, in the months prior to coming into AA, I was committing slow suicide. For me, it all stems from this deep seated self-hate machine that I had in place and that was my disease. For all the reasons I was convinced I could not handle life, I hated myself and I did things to actively punish myself and to escape those horrible feelings of anxiety about not being able to handle my life and just shame over the person I was. One thing they say in AA frequently is "let us love you until you can love yourself." To that end, what I see in you from a distance is an extremely bright 19 year old who has much to offer the world, though it might not appear that you see it yet. If you do surrender and work this program others will help you find those parts of you that are obvious to the rest of us. You are a wonderful person and, though you have challenges to deal with as a young person making his way in the world, I said before you have long happy life in front of you if you do the next right thing. Pray to God to help you see what a wonderful person you are and be active in AA. You have so so much to offer and you just don't see it yet. I was so full of self-hate when I came into AA just over a year ago. It does get better. I may be going out on a limb here, but I read in one of your previous posts that your mother has bipolar disorder and this puts you in a very difficult position living with her and being somewhat of a caretaker at such a young age when you are supposed to be out making a life for yourself. Also, Bipolar disorder is highly inheritable and you might need to seek some evaluation for yourself. I don't mean to scare you here, but some of the things you are doing may just be self-medicating depression which I am all too familiar with. I have other diagnoses and I treat them. It is just a thought and I could be way off base. Either way, I think you will find strength in AA because I already see a very articulate young man and I do believe the program will help you unlock some of what are clear strengths that the rest of us see and then take steps towards making your way in the world as God intends for you. In love and support,
Mark
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 27th of December 2009 02:09:28 PM
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 27th of December 2009 03:12:19 PM
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Me, for instance, will drink dangerous substances even though they have dangerous effects, yet I will never slit my wrists, take pills or try to hang myself.
-- Edited by johnphilip19 on Sunday 27th of December 2009 12:46:07 AM
That's exactly what I said 1 year ago. I'll make the attempt to kill myself (just a cry for attention and help really) but since I know I don't really have the nerve to do it, I'll just continue the way I'm going and die that way. What a joke that was. in less than 2 months there were 3 serious, honest attempts at suicide. Not a cry for help or attention, but a definite decision to stop the pain. All ended up with hospital and psych ward stays, and all made me drink more and try harder the next time. I thank God today that he did not let it happen. There was no way I was going to continue down the road I was on and not finally kill myself. I had a Doc tell me "you haven't been successful YET", and we all know what YET means (Your Entitled To). I have learned that when people with experience say yet, I better listen, because it WILL happen to me if I don't change. If I choose to pick up a drink today I'm choosing to give up everything and die. And I WILL die. If the alcohol doesn't kill me, I WILL. Thanks for reminding me where I was, and please please take what you are feeling VERY SERIOUSLY. You say you will never hang yourself or slit your wrists, and you may honestly feel that way today, because you don't have enough pain...YET.
Good topic, and quite timely, actually. Yes, I think there is a huge difference between self-abuse and suicide.
About two hours ago I became profoundly depressed and hopeless when my son told me of some things I have said in his presence over the last five or six years that he had internalized and have done him harm. My wife confirmed them as well. I barely remembered it. While drunk, I had made an irreversable parenting mistake. I felt as though any good that I have yet to do was wiped out by this transgression. I wanted out and was ready to do it. I was ready and willing to die. I saw the whole process quite clearly in my mind. Then I took the acts in question and did a Step #4-#9 with them and took a nap. I feel better now.
I have depression. One of the symptoms of depression is serious & dedicated suicidal urges.
Is the urge for a drink or a cigarette or other self-abuse fruit from the same tree as deliberating planning to end one's life? No, I don't think so, but what do I know...
Aloha JP...just trying to keep this simple from my experiences and perception and an add to all of the other fellow responders. Indifference for me is about not holding a certain pro/con position on any or a certain issue or idea. Suicide I have learned in this program is either successful or not. Again for me a non-successful suicide is where a person ends their life as in killing themselves in one fashion or another. A successful suicide is where a person changes how they live their life and then goes on to positive consequences, outcomes and desires to continue living it.
Recovery sure does change how I can look at the program doesn't it? I've had attempts before and ended up with the successful suicide.
Oh Christ, I forgot to tell everyone here that I'm ADOPTED! I don't even know my biological father's last name. My adopted mother (the one whom I've been living with my entire life!) has MS with bipolar.
A goddamn horrible lapse of memory since I've joined here.
No doubt I was slowly committing a type of suicide when I was drinking, but didnt realize it.
I was in the 'real deal' suicidal at my last drunk ready to blow my brains out cuz' I didnt think I could stop drinking. How completely selfish of me to be thinking that way .. planning to leave all my family and friends behind to mourn, grieve and question their ability to help me.
What a spiritual awakening I had at the last moment and knew there was hope in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and that is right where I went back to. God saved me from myself.
Suicide ... a permanent answer to a temporary problem.
Oh Christ, I forgot to tell everyone here that I'm ADOPTED! I don't even know my biological father's last name. My adopted mother (the one whom I've been living with my entire life!) has MS with bipolar.
A goddamn horrible lapse of memory since I've joined here.
Imagine that...so was I. It sounds like you and I are very much alike.
