Morning all....just wanted to throw something out there. I went to a meeting yesterday and as always loved being there with everyone and seeing the joy in the room. There is a guy who in the past has been very serious and doesn't like to see alot of happy, joyous and free at the meetings. After a few speakers he spoke of how there are people out there and at that meeting who are at crisis. He didn't think people should talk about what is going on with them at the meetings that it should be only shared with thier sponsers. He said all that social stuff was for the birds because Alcohol kills. He was there to talk about Alcoholism. You get the picture. I sat and thought about that meeting for awhile now. My thoughts were. 1. What was all your complaining about helping the suffering alcoholic??
2. I came to these meetings to learn how to live a happy life and to continue on that path. 3. And where else were we suppose to hear how other people are handling lifes stresses and not picking up. So I guess ... for a second the guy was making me feel i wasn't taking AA serious and it scared me. But now that I think about it I know that AA is well and working in my life because I am happy now. I don't walk around with the world on my shoulder and take it out on others. I have bad days yes.. but thru the program I know who is at fault ....me! And I work thru it. Any feed back out there??
Yes, good attitude. I see the same thing often. I go to newcomer's meetings and hear oldtimers say "Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth" when those meetings are specifically designed to let newcomers share and if they don't like it, they don't have to go. The worst thing to be is an oldtimer who thinks there is no value in listening any more (other than an active alcoholic I guess). I don't know. I guess have empathy because the guy you spoke of probably couldn't identify with having a happy life and the ways people in the room were living sober. I feel sad when I hear some oldtimers talk about how old AA is gone to them now and it has gone off course and meetings suck...blah blah. I can't fix that for them. Best I can do is respect and reach out.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Susie, Thank you for the share. Yes, some folks can get off track at meetings, but it sounds like this guy is just irritable, restless and discontent. Don't want what he has. That's his problem. Not ours, thank god. When folks get off track I remind myself to take what I need and leave the rest. Also, sometimes it's a practice of patience and tolerance. Something I have much more of today thanks to the program of AA. I think sometimes it's a good reminder for me to hear new folks speak. I remember when I came in I had trouble putting sentences or thoughts together.
Hi Having been an oldtimer, and now a newcommer, I can reflect and identify with how you feel. When I first came into AA, the old boys used to grab me by the hair, and say " Do as we tell you to do, and you'll be ok" and yes.."The cotton balls in the mouth", was a common phras Also, there wasn't much shared in the feeling department. As time went on, more feelings, and emotions were shared by newcommers, plus sharing living problems etc, and it used to really piss some of these old guys off. At one point, I went outside of AA to get in touch with my emotions and feelings, because, trying to share them with the old boys was impossible. It's great that we can walk into an AA meeting today, and let it all hang out.
Aloha Susie...when I hear or see that happen at any of the meetings I attend it gives me an opportunity for understanding, compassion and a choice of when and if I will go one on one with the person about what is really going on with him or her. It's not an opportunity to become a sponsor but to exercise what compassion I have learned here. When I hear or see that happen I also check out my reactions to it. I have been told in the past by several member of the local AA family that I don't react and they want that. I don't react because my peace of mind and serenity is not up for grabs and there is no reason at all to put stumbling stones on the path of sobriety. There is absolutely no one in this fellowship worthy of my recovery. I am also an old timer...I have not reached perfection or sainthood and never will at times I need grace and a grain of salt to be taken with. I show my feelings thru my talk and my actions and often times (mostly) I am grateful when the other fellows can read my body language and distill the feelings that are causing it. I am an old timer and I love (always have) them always holding on to that bag of salt, compassion and understanding and a smile when they start tripping.
It's okay for people to be different than me. It's okay to not join in.
There's always going to be grumpy old timers at some meetings, but if the newcomer isn't going to hear how sober alcoholics deal with everyday problems what's the point in being sober. Newcomers do need to shut up and listen to the message, but the message is about hope and freedom from the grip of active alcoholism. I see too many of these so called old timers spending too much time out in the parking lot smoking cigarettes and BSing with their buddies. To a new comer AA can seem very cliquish at times. I heard one of these grumpy old farts trying to convince a new comer that alcoholism isn't a addiction, it's a allergy of the body and a obsession of the mind, that sounds like a definition of addiction to me. Bob.
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Love like you've never been hurt, and
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Thanks for sharing Susie. What you are explaining is all to common these days in the rooms of AA. In my area most of the old timers are 'dry' and dont seem to me to be practicing the principles. And I agree for the most part that the newcomer should be listening. I know that for me, I didnt have anything to share, I didnt know much when I first came thru the doors. I needed to listen and learn. And I am very, very thankful for good sponsorship. Any personal matters I NEVER share at a table, I take it to my sponsor.
I use to attend an AA meeting held at a hospital in my town. There were several ppl at that meeting ( the majority were old timers ) who were constantly fooling around before, during and after the meeting. Cross talking, flipping each other off, throwing candy, wrappers and stir sticks. Just plain old acting like kids. At this time the local detox house patients use to attend this same meeting as well. And I was always thinking to myself ... How in the world are they gonna perceive AA if this is what they get to see ?
I shared this with my sponsor , how I hated those meetings, cuz' I didnt think they were helping the newcomer and it was disruptive to my own recovery. My sponsor said to me , " Lori, who keeps you sober?" I replied God does. And she said then what makes me think that God wont help the new person stay sober as well. And she also suggested that I stop going to those meetings and search out other meetings where the members were acting like adults and I would find some sobriety. And that is exactly what I did.
I have learned in the 5 short years that I have been sober that I will find ppl who teach me how Id like to be, and I will also find ppl who will teach me how I dont want to be. The decision is mine
That is why I like the fact that meetings are different, autonomous. Some meetings in my town are all oldtimers who don't like it when people share stories that don't somehow hit upon the solution. Another meeting I go to is very cliquish, everyone is best pals, some of them even work together outside AA. That one is a bit younger of a crowd and doesn't dictate the meeting as strictly. My favorite meeting of late has been one where I don't know anybody, freshly sober folks or still drunk. Looking more like me and less like my grandfather. I'm fortunate to have many meetings in my town, so if one doesnt suit me or I suit it, there is always another one!
People who feel like crap inside are usually the most negative and critical people out there. So this guy can't feel "good" when he has to try and become a kill-joy for the people in AA who are living with Hope. I feel sorry for where he's at, but he has no business burdening everyone else with his crabbiness. He is the one who should be reaching out for help.
Joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Hey Susie, I usually bring an "air horn" with me to meetings. I hide it in my jacket for just such emergencies. When I have an irratible individual like the one you describe, I just pull out the air horn and blast it when the guy starts talking. In the event I forgot the air horn, sticking your fingers in your ears and reciting the "La La La I'm not listening La La La" litany also works, just not as quickly. Seriously, I would just filter him a bit and try and absorb the part about him that is sober and his wish for you to remain sober too. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I'm fine in AA as long as nobody tells tells me to "find a higher power" or some crap. Reason being, a higher power such as God will not help me, only me, the person with the said issue can make a modicum of difference. The other reason I would be arrogant at meetings is if a seasoned member speaks to me in a certain manner because of my age, regardless of personality or otherwise.
Fundamentally, I am there to listen, and only chime in when I feel its worth the words.
Situations of this nature have come up for me and after discussing each with my sponsor, we have gone over most of the things mentioned by folks here. Most helpful for me has been, Tolerance in AA, like Bill W. talks bout in "As Bill Sees It", take what's helpful and leave the rest, recognizing that some are sicker than others, newcomers do well by listening and learning, avoid focusing on the one negative, rather better to remember the other 99% positives, compassion for dry drunks, and the autonomy of individual meetings.
I love that all meetings are different. I appreciate having at least two non-discussion, book studies per week. Plus all the other different special interest meetings. So far, the meetings I have pinpointed as negative, turned out to be meetings where the Traditions of AA were being fudged.
I do attend and love one meeting where cross-talk is common, however the cross-talk is always supportive and loving, never to cut and shame. After talking to my sponsor, I have come to feel that I am free to go where it serves me most at any given time. Luckily, even though I live in a small town, we do have a fair amount of choices. Also, I was reading Dr. Paul O. recently, "You Can't Make Me Angry", and he reminds that we can start a new meeting with a different focus and "rules", meaning no crosstalk, call out of members, talking in order, discussion or study, tradition study, etc. and this was echoed by someone else at a meeting last week.
I prefer to go to meetings with lots of love and compassion in evidence where there are plenty of members that have a strong spiritual presence. However, on any given day....I've been to meetings where I was agitated despite prayer, and afterwards I have always ended up learning something helpful about myself and sobriety upon reflection, even if it was painful at the time.
Home groups seems to be largely encouraged here. The really over-all negative meetings I've gone to seem to be lacking wise, experienced home group members who will remind when relevant, the meeting boundaries expressed in the opening minutes. I was really upset for the first time in a meeting after one member shouted out over the person speaking,"You are ruining my serenity, so shut up!". No one said anything. The meeting ended and there was a fight in the parking lot five minutes later. Some one else shared that at a different meeting she was told during it that her share "was a real downer." On the flip side, I'll meet someone different in AA, and they'll tell me how much they get out of the very same meetings I don't care for. Go figure.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 17th of December 2009 03:48:12 AM
-- Edited by angelov8 on Thursday 17th of December 2009 04:02:08 AM
One of the coolest things that has been part of my journey isnt what has happened to me at all. Its watching how others change. You just gave me a big smile remembering this guy I called "Angry Al". Man was he pissy....about everything. Today he's happy, joyous and free thanks to this program of recovery and I was fortunate enough to be able to watch the transformation. ~sigh~ What a gift.
Great read all....Having just celebrated twenty on my fiftieth birthday. I question which type of old timer am I. The one with time or the one with age. I wanted to sit here in judgement of what has been said, instead I'll share my experiences. One does not know what is going on in the mind of another. I have gone to meetings happy, joyous and free and have gone to meetings restless, irritable and discontent. Who am I to judge? The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. AA offers many suggestions, not rules. So when I see the grumpy ones. I sit, watch, listen and most importantly pray that they should allow or be allowed to have the sunshine in. I to came up at a time when the cotton phrase was used frequently. When the thought crosses my mind it is usually a person who is making no sense with what they are saying or the person that is stuck in the same share regardless of the course of the meeting. For the ones that attempt to shut down others while they are sharing A simple, Hold on, I need to hear what they are saying.
Lastly, for the one who does not believe in a Power Greater Than Ourselves...The only step you have to get with perfection is Step 1, the others will come in their time.
I wanted to clarify. Yeah, I agree newcomers need to friggin listen and if I didn't do an equal if not greater amount of that as opposed to dumping and whining about my "problems" in early sobriety, I would not have lasted even this long. My only point was there is definitely a place to share in early sobriety and that is a newcomers' meeting. That is the place to get connected, put oneself out there and find love and support from oldtimers. They should know they are going to hear craziness when they go. NOW, at other meetings, I quickly figured out that I did need to shut up and listen. The other 3 meetings I went to out of 6 per week were just like that. I am blessed I found a perfect mixture and there are so many meetings where I live. If I felt a meeting was drifting entirely too far away from the solution, I would have said it different like "It's good to hear people's stories about how they are living a day at a time, but I just wanted to remind everyone we are here because of our alcoholism and it is a killer disease" then launch into a share about what I did to stay sober... I have heard that done a gazillion times and nobody took offense. That is the proper way to sort of get a meeting more focused while being more positive. I have only done that 1 time because I don't have that much sobriety time and when I did it people were shocked and many mouthed "thank you" at me. It was because it was one of those newcomer meetings where people were sharing about slipping due to going to bars and hanging out with friends who drink... That was a nobrainer to me...I was like "WTF is up with you people? Call your sponsor before you try anything like that. If I did that with 30 days sober my sponsor would have ripped me and told me to go to a meeting." Anyhow, the point is that there has to be tolerance and a fine balance between listening and sharing and speaking and that is what makes meetings work best.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Susie, Such grummpy old timers and some not so old in the program have almost made me give up at first. I felt doomed and unable or willing to share my feelings with anyone,rather than disappoint them in their expectations. I was told, I should share "only those things" with a sponsor...what the heck I didn't have one, because I was new. I was laughed at by two women once for talking to much and for being so nervous. For heavens sake! I was newly sober. It was a scary and horrible experience for me. I got thru it though. I remembered reading "principles before personalities." The new group,that I'm in... seem to share everything and I am in a much more happy place with it.
I love to hear total honesty in meetings, both from the newcomers AND oldtimer. This guy sounds extremely unwell, but I am glad we have such people in meetings, for they too are necessary for my own recovery. Everyone in AA meetings are good examples to me. Some are an example of 'How to' whilst others are an example of 'How NOT to'
Listen to them all, listen and learn. Oh yes, a little prayer for this poor guy might help, might help him and/or you.
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Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
